Belgian Tripel Belgian Trippel (2006 World Beer Cup Gold Medal: Dragonmead Final Absolution clone)

[ahpsp]

I cracked my first one of these on Tuesday, just about a week and a half after bottling. It had some carbonation, and it tasted great! I was surprised at the positive change in just 10 days in the bottle.

 

[ChrisHouston]

^Ahh temptation got you! I bottled this last Sunday and I'm going to hold out for 3-4 weeks. Luckily I bottled another batch last week also.

This beer smelled nice and fruity, not much of a hot alcohol taste/smll which is good since this happens to high ABV beers

 

[sweed]

I'm considering bottling this today? I just checked the gravity and it reads 1.014. That seems pretty good at 9.8%. A little higher than I expected, but I'm not complaining. I don't think it'll drop any more. I want to serve some on Thanksgiving to family and relatives. I think I'm going to do it.
Edit: fermenting for 14 days.

 

[mike-c]

I made a slightly modified extract version of this last week; it smells amazing and it sure went crazy with fermentation. I have a question about primary/secondary with this beer that I'd like some opinions on, based on my work schedule and having only one 6.5 gallon carboy. I am gone from Dec 7th to Jan 4th, so I have a few options I can think of:

1. Leave beer in primary (3.5 weeks) and then bottle
2. Leave beer in primary until I return (8 weeks) and then bottle
3. Leave beer in primary (3 weeks) then transfer to secondary (using bottle bucket and back into same, cleaned/sanitized carboy with removed yeast cake) (5 weeks) and then bottle

I've heard mixed reviews of leaving beers in primary for over two months, so I am leaning towards either 1. or 3. I also understand option 3 could lead to increased oxidation, but mixing seems pretty low when using an auto-siphon/hose.

It would be great to get some thoughts based on experience with this beer. Thanks!

 

[iluvmysh]

Yes I do...

It's 12.8lbs Pilsner
1.6lbs Munich Malt (2row)
1.6lbsCandy sugar

1.8oz hallertauer mittelfruh
.4oz styrian goldings
.8 chzech saaz

same yeast

I want to try to brew this up this weekend. Can anyone tell me what temp they're mashing in and for how long? This will be my first AG brew so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Strike water (155 degrees?): 4.5Gallons
Sparge (170 degrees?): (1.5x's strike?) ~6.75Gallons
Hopefully will yield in 7gallons preboil?
^I will either stop adding sparge water or add additional sparge water - as needed - until I make 7 gallons of wort (good idea? bad idea?)

I plan to add homemade Candy Sugar @ 5min.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks all in advance!

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I want to try to brew this up this weekend. Can anyone tell me what temp they're mashing in and for how long? This will be my first AG brew so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Strike water (155 degrees?): 4.5Gallons
Sparge (170 degrees?): (1.5x's strike?) ~6.75Gallons
Hopefully will yield in 7gallons preboil?
^I will either stop adding sparge water or add additional sparge water - as needed - until I make 7 gallons of wort (good idea? bad idea?)

I plan to add homemade Candy Sugar @ 5min.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks all in advance!

Making your own ends up essentially sucrose (minus the hour it took to make it). The acid only inverts a very small percentile so it's a lot of effort for not much gain. Just add the same weight in sucrose, (table sugar). It nets out to the same composition as any of the homemade recipes.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I made a slightly modified extract version of this last week; it smells amazing and it sure went crazy with fermentation. I have a question about primary/secondary with this beer that I'd like some opinions on, based on my work schedule and having only one 6.5 gallon carboy. I am gone from Dec 7th to Jan 4th, so I have a few options I can think of:

1. Leave beer in primary (3.5 weeks) and then bottle
2. Leave beer in primary until I return (8 weeks) and then bottle
3. Leave beer in primary (3 weeks) then transfer to secondary (using bottle bucket and back into same, cleaned/sanitized carboy with removed yeast cake) (5 weeks) and then bottle

I've heard mixed reviews of leaving beers in primary for over two months, so I am leaning towards either 1. or 3. I also understand option 3 could lead to increased oxidation, but mixing seems pretty low when using an auto-siphon/hose.

It would be great to get some thoughts based on experience with this beer. Thanks!

Leaving an ale on a decomposing yeast+trub in primary for 2 months sounds like questionable advice IMHO.

 

[mike-c]

Leaving an ale on a decomposing yeast+trub in primary for 2 months sounds like questionable advice IMHO.

Yea, I agree on that. I'm leaning towards primary for 3 weeks and secondary for 5 weeks; will there still be enough yeast to carb bottles after 8 weeks since production?

 

[iluvmysh]

Making your own ends up essentially sucrose (minus the hour it took to make it). The acid only inverts a very small percentile so it's a lot of effort for not much gain. Just add the same weight in sucrose, (table sugar). It nets out to the same composition as any of the homemade recipes.

Thanks for the heads up on that.

Anyone else brew via all grain? Any comments on my post regarding temp/time/volume would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Pastorken]

Mike-C,

Once it's in secondary you're basically just bulk aging for 5 weeks. That's what I would do. And, yes, after 8 weeks there should be plenty of yeast left for conditioning. You shouldn't have any problems unless you were going to age it for like 6 months or more.
Safe travels!

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Yea, I agree on that. I'm leaning towards primary for 3 weeks and secondary for 5 weeks; will there still be enough yeast to carb bottles after 8 weeks since production?

Better

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Thanks for the heads up on that.

Anyone else brew via all grain? Any comments on my post regarding temp/time/volume would be greatly appreciated.

WLP500 (Chimay) will be a little fruity at 69F for 21 days, although with bottle conditioning over time it may tone down a little. We experimented with this strain for a number of years, (and arrived at near-identical temps to Denny's advice). In deference to the White Labs temp brackets we tried 65-69F and it was a little too fruity. At 63-64F it resulted in a nice balance between fruit and spice.

Primary duration with the right pitch should be somewhere in the range of 7-10 days, (14 days is ok). If the pitch is nutrient-healthy and well oxygenated it will also flocculate beautifully in secondary. If not then the flocc could take a while

 

[iluvmysh]

WLP500 (Chimay) will be a little fruity at 69F for 21 days, although with bottle conditioning over time it may tone down a little. We experimented with this strain for a number of years, (and arrived at near-identical temps to Denny's advice). In deference to the White Labs temp brackets we tried 65-69F and it was a little too fruity. At 63-64F it resulted in a nice balance between fruit and spice.

Primary duration with the right pitch should be somewhere in the range of 7-10 days, (14 days is ok). If the pitch is nutrient-healthy and well oxygenated it will also flocculate beautifully in secondary. If not then it could cause an extended wait

thanks again for your advice - all is welcome. however, what i'm after is my procedure with the all grain brew:

Strike water (155 degrees?): 4.5Gallons
Sparge (170 degrees?): (1.5x's strike?) ~6.75Gallons
Hopefully will yield in 7gallons preboil?

Does 155 degrees/4.5 gallons, 170 degrees/6.75 gallons sound correct for this grain bill?

12.8lbs Pilsner
1.6lbs Munich Malt (2row)
1.6lbsCandy sugar

1.8oz hallertauer mittelfruh
.4oz styrian goldings
.8 chzech saaz

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

what i'm after is my procedure with the all grain brew:

Strike water (155 degrees?): 4.5Gallons
Sparge (170 degrees?): (1.5x's strike?) ~6.75Gallons
Hopefully will yield in 7gallons preboil?

Does 155 degrees/4.5 gallons, 170 degrees/6.75 gallons sound correct for this grain bill?

My pleasure.

4.5 + 6.75 gallons will yield 8.3-8.4 gallons of pre-boil wort based on the absorption factor. Mash out a gallon less.

If 155F is the strike temp (probably too low unless the grist is almost hot).
If 155F is the mash temp then it is too high for a Tripel style. It should be closer to 148F.

 

[iluvmysh]

My pleasure.

4.5 + 6.75 gallons will yield 8.3-8.4 gallons of pre-boil wort based on the absorbtion factor. Mash out a gallon less.

If 155F is the strike temp (probably too low unless the grist is almost hot).
If 155F is the mash temp then it is too high for a Tripel style. It should be closer to 148F.

Thank you! just the answer I was looking for. I will scale down my water.
I plan to mash in at 148-149 for 90 minutes (after doing some research yesterday). Grain temp is probably 65 degrees. After playing with some online calculators, I will temper my mash tun (10gallon rubbermaid) to about 157 and add hot/cold water to reach my mash temp of 148.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Thank you! just the answer I was looking for. I will scale down my water.
I plan to mash in at 148-149 for 90 minutes (after doing some research yesterday). Grain temp is probably 65 degrees. After playing with some online calculators, I will temper my mash tun (10gallon rubbermaid) to about 157 and add hot/cold water to reach my mash temp of 148.

Sounds right on to me.

 

[crusader1612]

Sounds right on to me.

Sounds like a tasty recipe, Cant get the beer where I am, but I'll work something out I'm sure.

 

[RobanyBigjobz]

Made up an extract batch of this as my first adventure in doing something more complicated than a kit. Thanks to HuRRiC4Ne for the recipe I love Belgian tripels but living in the UK I'm never likely to see any real Final Absolution.

Made up a starter with a single smack pack of Wyeast 1214 (LHBS doesn't stock White Labs) then followed the recipe as well as I could. Boil done and cooled it had was 1.090 OG but kinda darker than I was expecting from the description. May have mucked something up but not sure what.

Fermentation started fine and I'm very pleased I chose to follow the advice of folks here to use a blow-off tube not an airlock. Smells amazing. Now on day 16 in primary and the gravity has been stuck at 1.020 for 4 days. Ferm temps between 64 and 69F. I was hoping for lower after reading the thread and am not sure exactly what, if anything, to do.

Leave it longer and hope something happens? Move it to somewhere warmer? Lob in some champagne yeast? Rack it to bright tank for clearing and bulk aging as it's done? Sorry if these are daft questions, I'm new at this.

Cheers

Rob

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Made up an extract batch of this as my first adventure in doing something more complicated than a kit. Thanks to HuRRiC4Ne for the recipe I love Belgian tripels but living in the UK I'm never likely to see any real Final Absolution.

Made up a starter with a single smack pack of Wyeast 1214 (LHBS doesn't stock White Labs) then followed the recipe as well as I could. Boil done and cooled it had was 1.090 OG but kinda darker than I was expecting from the description. May have mucked something up but not sure what.

Fermentation started fine and I'm very pleased I chose to follow the advice of folks here to use a blow-off tube not an airlock. Smells amazing. Now on day 16 in primary and the gravity has been stuck at 1.020 for 4 days. Ferm temps between 64 and 69F. I was hoping for lower after reading the thread and am not sure exactly what, if anything, to do.

Leave it longer and hope something happens? Move it to somewhere warmer? Lob in some champagne yeast? Rack it to bright tank for clearing and bulk aging as it's done? Sorry if these are daft questions, I'm new at this.

Cheers

Rob

Do you have the estimate on pitch cell count used? For a big ale like this to attenuate down dry for the Tripel style one would need something to the tune of about 260-270 billion cells. Just a guess on why the gravity stalled.

One smack pack, (100 billion cells), inoculating a 2.6 - 2.7 Liter starter at 10P would be about right.

Handy doc on pitch rates per gravity below:

http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/pitching_rates_-_rev_1.10.pdf

 

[RobanyBigjobz]

Thanks CSI, that link's very helpful. If I've done the maths right on my swirl-as-I-walk-by starter I pitched only about 200 billion. Starters are more complicated and important than I thought. Still, learning new stuff is good

Is there anything I can/should do to get the gravity to where most folks seem to get it or should I chalk this up as a learning experience?

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Thanks CSI, that link's very helpful. If I've done the maths right on my swirl-as-I-walk-by starter I pitched only about 200 billion. Starters are more complicated and important than I thought. Still, learning new stuff is good

Is there anything I can/should do to get the gravity to where most folks seem to get it or should I chalk this up as a learning experience?

You could try the big pitch re-starter (3000ml stir plate decanted re-pitch). It's a Jamil method that does work but it's a last resort. More info if needed.

 

[RobanyBigjobz]

I'll give that a go and cross my fingers, thanks

 

[Spulls]

I brewed the extract version on Friday the OG was 1.085. Yesterday evening I noticed very vigorous activity in the air lock so I had to improvise a quick blow off tube using some tubing and a bowl of sanitized solution. It worked perfect disaster avoided.

 

[sweed]

I brewed the extract version on Friday the OG was 1.085. Yesterday evening I noticed very vigorous activity in the air lock so I had to improvise a quick blow off tube using some tubing and a bowl of sanitized solution. It worked perfect disaster avoided.

Nice, this is the only brew I've done to date (15+ brews) that has ever caused a very aggressive fermentation, causing the krausen to blow into the blow off tube.

Only a few weeks into the bottle, and it's great, my brother who was up for Thanksgiving was loving it.

 

[RobanyBigjobz]

The prescribed second starter did the trick. The gravity's down to 1.017 now so it looks like I'll be racking to bright tank soon for some bulk aging

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

The prescribed second starter did the trick. The gravity's down to 1.017 now so it looks like I'll be racking to bright tank soon for some bulk aging

Outstanding!

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Nice, this is the only brew I've done to date (15+ brews) that has ever caused a very aggressive fermentation, causing the krausen to blow into the blow off tube.

Only a few weeks into the bottle, and it's great, my brother who was up for Thanksgiving was loving it.

Capture that krausen! It's the healthiest yeast for running that next starter...

 

[iluvmysh]

Capture that krausen! It's the healthiest yeast for running that next starter...

so i have a thick thick pillow of foam-looking krausen at the top of my batch. i pitched about 2.5 weeks ago. should i wobble the carboy around to try to get it to settle at the bottom? should i just rack to secondary trying to leave the krausen behind?
is this normal? it's like a good 3+inches of thick krausen just hanging out at the top.

the yeast can be harvested from the krausen? i've only read about yeast washing that has settled, didn't know it could be done to krausen also.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

so i have a thick thick pillow of foam-looking krausen at the top of my batch. i pitched about 2.5 weeks ago. should i wobble the carboy around to try to get it to settle at the bottom? should i just rack to secondary trying to leave the krausen behind?
is this normal? it's like a good 3+inches of thick krausen just hanging out at the top.

the yeast can be harvested from the krausen? i've only read about yeast washing that has settled, didn't know it could be done to krausen also.

Chimay or Westmalle yeast usually doesn't maintain a big raft of krausen for two weeks. Mine usually drops out after a few days leaving a side ring on the stainless but not much more. Could it be hops trub maybe? If the beer isn't sour or infected then it's a floating mystery

 

[iluvmysh]

Chimay or Westmalle yeast usually doesn't maintain a big raft of krausen for two weeks. Mine usually drops out after a few days leaving a side ring on the stainless but not much more. Could it be hops trub maybe? If the beer isn't sour or infected then it's a floating mystery

thanks for the reply, which lead me to inspect my carboy more closely. upon closer inspection, it's just a very thick/dense layer of krausen that stuck to the wall of the carboy. everything else inside that layer has dropped out. i'll be racking to a secondary this weekend. thanks again!