Belgian "Tripel/Strong Ale" - split mash

[John Coo's Brews]

I'm messing around with a recipe that will incorporate both Belgian Pils and Belgian Pale Ale malts (roughly 50/50) - along with dextrose (at 17% of fermentables) - using Wyeast 3522 - Belgian Ardennes. Was thinking of working only the Pils through a protein rest at 122F, then raising through step infusion up to 152F for the Saccharide rest before adding the Pale ale malt (with the remainder of the mash/sparge unchanged) - my thinking is that the pale ale malt is fully modified, so doesn't need to go through the lower temp rest, and the extra water that is needed if you start all the grains at 122F then requires significantly more water on the step infusion to raise the temp up to the saccharide rest. For me, dilution and total volume after mashing is critical because I'm limited to a 5 gal boil vessel, so max 3.5 gal initial pre-boil volume.

Does this make sense to anyone - or am I just creating more troubles for myself with no real payoff?

 

[VikeMan]

Was thinking of working only the Pils through a protein rest at 122F, then raising through step infusion up to 152F for the Saccharide rest before adding the Pale ale malt (with the remainder of the mash/sparge unchanged) - my thinking is that the pale ale malt is fully modified, so doesn't need to go through the lower temp rest, and the extra water that is needed if you start all the grains at 122F then requires significantly more water on the step infusion to raise the temp up to the saccharide rest.

I don't know of any widely available Pilsner malts (belgian or otherwise) that are under modified. What malt do you have there?

 

[Big Monk]

This has recently been a hot topic again but I’ll state what I have been all over: I challenge any homebrewer to try and find an undermodified malt.

Let me save you the time: You won’t! Skip the protein rest and mash normally, whatever that may be for you.

 

[Paulaner]

Nice flag of Belgium you got going on Big Monk.

 

[Big Monk]

Nice flag of Belgium you got going on Big Monk.

You know it buddy.

 

[hottpeper13]

If you look at the COA for Weyerman Floor malted Bohemian Pils you'll see that it is under modified and needs at least a step mash. This malt makes one of the best lagers when decoction mashed. At least it was when I scored a 45 on a Check Pils in 2017

 

[VikeMan]

If you look at the COA for Weyerman Floor malted Bohemian Pils you'll see that it is under modified and needs at least a step mash.

Have a link to that, or a pic?

If you look at the "product specification" in Weyermann's "specifications as PDF" file, they list (total) proteins, but do not list soluble proteins or a Kolbach index.

 

[hottpeper13]

If you take the FG/CG delta and look at the acrospires growth length it is slightly under modified.

 

[hottpeper13]

This is important , it was 2017 3 years ago , things might have changed

 

[Big Monk]

We have to define parameters for which a malt would be considered under-modified.

If the Kolbach Index or Protein modification is > 35%, it’s not undermodified.

We also need to define what we mean by step mash. When I say I’m going to step mash, I’m talking about temps at beta and above. Some include a protein rest in thier criteria for step mashing. It would be pretty much impossible for a homebrewer to find a malt with modification < 35%, hence there is no need to ever do a protein rest.

Below are the typical specs for this malt:

https://www.brouwland.com/content/assets/docs/Weyermann_Bohemian_Floor_Crop_2012.pdf
EDIT: Sorry. I tried to link to a PDF using the image insert!

 

[VikeMan]

If you take the FG/CG delta and look at the acrospires growth length it is slightly under modified.

The spec I'm looking at does not list both grinds, but even if it did, that is not really a measure of relative protein modification, or an indication of the need for a protein rest.

 

[Bassman2003]

Scotty, how about brewing with a lot of wheat in the grain bill? I tend to think a 10-15 min protein rest is what many pro brewers would want to do. Does the modification trend affect wheat as well? Would you do a protein rest for a hefeweizen with 60% wheat malt? Thanks!

 

[VikeMan]

Below are the typical specs for this malt:

The pic didn't show up in line, but I went to it and it shows 38-44%.

 

[Big Monk]

Scotty, how about brewing with a lot of wheat in the grain bill? I tend to think a 10-15 min protein rest is what many pro brewers would want to do. Does the modification trend affect wheat as well? Would you do a protein rest for a hefeweizen with 60% wheat malt? Thanks!

I guess it would really be a judgement call based on the type you were using. Even then, Weyermann's typical Pale and Dark wheat both show more than acceptable levels of modification. Even their FM Bohemian Wheat malt has a range where the lower end is only slightly below what we would consider suitably modified.

I think crush is more important when dealing with wheat than anything else.

 

[Bassman2003]

Thanks. I agree. I close my mill gap down just for the wheat milling.

Lower temperature rests can be rather dogmatic in nature. We do them, do not know exactly if they had an impact then from fear of missing out, continue to do them... Something I will be experimenting with going forward.

 

[John Coo's Brews]

Thanks for all the input. I'm all for simplification. The Belgian Pils malt is from Dingemans (via Northern Brewer), and I've noticed that sometimes when NB use this in recipes, they call for (option A) a multi-step mash with protein, Beta and Alpha rests - although they also indicate the alternative (option B) is a single temp infusion mash - so, I guess there's my answer. If 4.5% soluble protein is a number that helps, that's what is showing in the spec - but does not show any other measure of modification.

 

[Big Monk]

Thanks for all the input. I'm all for simplification. The Belgian Pils malt is from Dingemans (via Northern Brewer), and I've noticed that sometimes when NB use this in recipes, they call for (option A) a multi-step mash with protein, Beta and Alpha rests - although they also indicate the alternative (option B) is a single temp infusion mash - so, I guess there's my answer. If 4.5% soluble protein is a number that helps, that's what is showing in the spec - but does not show any other measure of modification.

http://www.dingemansmout.be/sites/dingemansmout.be/files/downloads/PILSEN MD_0.pdf
The Kolbach Index ranges from 35-45%. The lower end is on the cusp but is it definitely not undermodified. Most maltsters deliver a median value in thier range on actual lots.