Belgian Style Beers

[Normans54]

Hey everybody,

I am a relative n00b in the home brewing world (I have brewed four different beers, one cider, and one mead) and am getting ready to take the all grain plunge. However, one thing I have been striving for is a certain level of complexity in my beer. Thus far, three of the beers I have brewed were Belgian-style: a belgian white, a dubbel, and a chocolate stout. However, none of those beers had the level of complexity that is present in what seems like the overwhelming majority of beer that comes out of Belgium regardless of style. While I could chalk this up to the fact that I am relatively inexperienced or that I was doing extract/partial mash in those three batches, I am reluctant to do so. The reason for this is that, while they are undoubtedly delicious, pretty much every commercially available Belgian-style beer brewed outside of Belgium that I have tried, including beers brewed by Ommegang, Allagash, New Belgium, Dogfish Head, Boulevard, North Coast, etc., lack that level of complexity that can be found in Belgian beers. Thus far, the only non-Belgian brewery that I have tried that brews beers with the level of complexity that I am talking about is Unibroue. The best way that I could possibly describe this complexity is by saying that true Belgian beers (and those brewed by Unibroue) have "layers." What I mean by this is that in those beers, I can taste individual, unique flavors and notes, which can either complement other flavors, or stand out on their own. By contrast, while I certainly notice those same flavors and notes in beers brewed outside of Belgium, those beers almost taste as if they took those individual flavors and notes and subsequently "blended" them together. As such, I was wondering if anybody could tell me what, exactly, Belgian brewers do differently to attain those unique flavors and how can I get that level of complexity in future batches of beer that I brew? I know that this likely requires an extremely complicated response, so any help in this regard would be extraordinarily helpful. Thanks so much!

 

[bondra76]

As you move to all-grain, you'll get more complex. It takes time.

1) Make sure you have temp control during your fermentation
2) Figure out your water source and your all-grain setup. Both are important. Crappy water = crappy beer

 

[misterkidd]

You are right it's a complex question, no doubt with loads of answers! Alongside bondra's answers I would add :

(Caveat - I'm also relatively nooby, but I've been focusing on belgians, so...)

1) you are looking for esters and phenols - fermentation by-products often considered off-flavours in other styles. For this you need belgian yeast strains (obviously) and fermentation temperatures generally higher than other styles of beer.
2) melanoidin. This is a lovely rich maltiness derived either from decoction mashing (boiling some of your wort, basically) or speciality malts (you can actually buy melanoidin malt - probably the easiest way).
3) getting the balance right. I'm sure many will disagree, but holding back a bit on the hops with belgian beers can give other flavours a chance to step forward.

That's all I've got for now!

 

[Normans54]

As you move to all-grain, you'll get more complex. It takes time.

1) Make sure you have temp control during your fermentation
2) Figure out your water source and your all-grain setup. Both are important. Crappy water = crappy beer

Thanks for the response, Bondra76. I do not doubt this to be the case. However, this raises two questions: Firstly, I would imagine that all the commercial breweries that I mentioned have the best equipment and take all that stuff into account, yet their products lack that level of complexity. What do Belgian brewers do differently? Secondly, when you say "figure out your all-grain setup", what do you mean? I obviously am not going with a full on HERMS/RIMS setup, as this is my first all-grain brew. That said, I figured that the best thing for me would be to go with a three tiered setup with an HLT to mash tun to boil kettle set atop a propane burner. That would allow me to fly sparge with a sparge arm. What do you think?

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I'm a huge advocate of brew in a bag, very minimal equipment requirements. Don't see the necessity of multi vessel brewing.

The key for belgians is your yeast and fermentation temps. Not a big fan of partial boil extracts but you should be able to do a full volume belgian with extract, as typically their grain bills aren't that complex. Focus on your yeast, process, and make sure you pick the right recipe.

 

[bondra76]

no problem Normans

I'm somewhat new to the hobby still but I have learned a few things pretty quickly -

1) What you consider good beer isn't always what others see as good. Some of my beers I've been disappointed in, other people thought they were GREAT. So when you ask how to make good beer, just keep in mind it's relative. I don't personally care much for hoppy beer but others LOVE it. Complex notes, depending on what flavor of notes they are, are relative as well.

2) When I talked about your all-grain setup, I was really referring to your process. I continually tweak my process and I believe make it better every time. After 5-20 times brewing you'll have the makings of a good steady process. I rushed into All-Grain brewing and I am still perfecting my process. And I've also learned that you're going to have new processes with new beers; fruit beers, marzans, etc...all kinds of different ways to make great beers. We all continuously learn. If it was a slam dunk to make beer like the Belgian Monks, we'd all be doing it. It's taken them thousands of years.

3) Knowing that it's all relative and it takes time, you should tinker. I love certain types of brews as well - pumpkins, scottish ales, and ciders. I have a friend who was brewing small batches (1-2 gallon batches) for a while. I couldn't understand why but now I do - he was cooking his wort and separating it out into 1 gallon batches to taste yeast differences. He may have added things in secondary. I dunno - basic point was that he was tinkering to get the best batch of beer he could for what he liked. Now that I have been brewing 5 gallon batches for a while, I am considering stepping down my brews to test as well. You may find what you're looking for that way.

Hope that helps - I know it's not a definitive answer but I don't think there is one in this hobby.

I should add - for complexity you can try different mash steps and different malts as well. Someone more into the science of brewery can help ya there.

 

[pcampo]

Get the book "Brew like a Monk". This will give you a lot of info for brewing Belgians.

Here are some tips I got from the book and have tried and worked:

1. Ferment at a higher temperature, anywhere from 70-76F. This produces esters and phenols (this can only be done with Belgian yeast strain)

2. Try open fermentation in your boil kettle. Rack yeast and wort to a sealed fermenter after krausen drops to avoid oxidation and contamination. This produces esters and phenols.

3. pitch at a lower rate. Produces esters and phenols

4. don't be afraid to use sugar. I use up to 15%. brewerys use even up to 20%.

5. bottle condition for a few months. I have had my Belgians really pop after 4 months in the bottle. At three months it tasted "green" and cidery.

 

[Riot]

I agree with the Brew Like a Monk recommendation, that book is great. What yeast strains have you tried so far? Belgian ales are carried by the yeast tastewise, you will never get a good Belgian beer without good yeast.

 

[Normans54]

I agree with the Brew Like a Monk recommendation, that book is great. What yeast strains have you tried so far? Belgian ales are carried by the yeast tastewise, you will never get a good Belgian beer without good yeast.

For the dubbel and the chocolate stout, I used White Labs' Trappist yeast strain (WLP500). For the Belgian White, I used Wyeast's Belgian Witbeer strain (3944).

 

[z-bob]

(hope I'm not hijacking the thread)
Is Fermentis T-58 a reasonable choice yeast for a first attempt Belgian strong ale?

 

[Singletrack]

Get the book "Brew like a Monk". This will give you a lot of info for brewing Belgians.

Here are some tips I got from the book and have tried and worked:
...

5. bottle condition for a few months. I have had my Belgians really pop after 4 months in the bottle. At three months it tasted "green" and cidery.

When you bottle condition this long, what temperature are you using? I assume the first few weeks are at room temperature for carbonation, but are you then dropping the temp to bottle lager? 45 F? 35 F?

 

[pcampo]

I agree with the Brew Like a Monk recommendation, that book is great. What yeast strains have you tried so far? Belgian ales are carried by the yeast tastewise, you will never get a good Belgian beer without good yeast.

I have only used WLP530 and I like it. It is supposedly the same yeast Westmalle uses. I have always gotten good attenuation and I prefer more fruity esters than spicy phenols and that's exactly what this strain delivers......Its a little tricky yeast though. Sometimes it seems like it starts to quit because the krausen starts to fall to early and then ill rouse it up and/or raise the temp and it will start up again. And I have also fed it a little sugar in the vessel and that started it up again. It has taken up to 3 weeks to hit final gravity with these guys

 

[pcampo]

(hope I'm not hijacking the thread)
Is Fermentis T-58 a reasonable choice yeast for a first attempt Belgian strong ale?

yes. you can use that. it is a Belgian strain. I haven't uses it so I cant tell you if its good or bad, but in the profile it says has a peppery/spicy profile. So its up to you in what you. The reviews says it attenuates well so that's in an important characteristic......just make to use two packets if you are making anything in the high numbers of 70 gravity points.

 

[pcampo]

When you bottle condition this long, what temperature are you using? I assume the first few weeks are at room temperature for carbonation, but are you then dropping the temp to bottle lager? 45 F? 35 F?

No, I never bottle lager. lagering in the bottle would be more when you stick in the fridge to drink it so that the yeast fall to the bottom (and so that your beer is cold/cool). We want the yeast to continue working in the bottle, and lagering would stop that process. I keep it in my "cellar" (guest room. Soon to be baby room .) which is the coolest room in the house which stays about 60-75F.

Bottle conditioning Belgians are not just about carbonating them. Keeping Belgians (or any beer) in the bottle for a long time really mellows out some flavors and brings out the characteristics you are familiar with in Belgians. Bottle conditioning is re-fermentation, or mini fermentation in the bottle and I think is an important characteristic in Belgians. That's why at bottling time, I always pitch about a half or a quarter of a packet of yeast into the bottling bucket, just to make sure I have enough healthy yeast in the bottle.

 

[pcampo]

I know that some breweries keep in their bottles in a 55F cellar. I just don't have the capabilities to keep my bottles constantly at 55F, so they are usually around 70For higher. And they seem fine to me. Its hot here in southern CA, there is no way of keeping anything that cool unless you run the A/C 24/7, or use my fermentation fridge.

 

[Riot]

Room temp has been fine for bottle conditioning in my experience, 60-70 in my basement depending on season. As for yeast giving up early, I have found that all of the Belgian strains I have used like to be consistently warmed as fermentation progresses. I hold at the low mid of the temperature range then let them free run. Once activity starts to slow down I move the carboy to a warmer room. Still takes 2+ weeks to hit FG sometimes.

 

[RmikeVT]

You are basically asking a question that involves a many scenarios and solutions to those scenarios. I few people have recommended Brew like a Monk. That is a great book. You might also want to pick up Jamil Z's book "Brewing Classic Styles."

I would also consider entering you belgians into contests and getting judges feedback to improve your beers, if you are truly trying to brew world class examples.

Also, if you aren't already in one, try to find a local homebrew club. Drink your fellow homebrewers beers and figure out who the brews the belgians that you really enjoy and talk to them. It is likely that they have some of the same scenarios you have (water chemistry specific to a municipality) and give you some great advice.

I have learned so much from the folks in my brew club and going to homebrew events. There are folks with 20+ years of brewing experience that make some really outstanding award winning beers, that are willing to share and let you drink their beers for free!