Belgian Newbie

[Carlos_AO]

Hello Everyone,
Just have an all grain belgian brew question. Made a Belgium brew with:
5.00 gallon:
70.3% German Pilsner
10.5% German Munich Light
3.5%Belgian CaraMunich
1.9%American C80L
1.9%American Chocolate
1.9%Beligan Special B
1lb. Belgian Candi Sugar-Clear
1oz Styrian Golding (5.2AA) @60 min
.5oz Liberty (3.9AA)@20 min.
.5oz Liberty (3.9AA)@5 min.
1 whirlfloc @10 min.
Wyeast 1762 with starter
OG 1.076
FG 1.011
32 IBU 18.86 SRM 8.60% ABV
1.57qt/[email protected] pH
Single Infusion Mash @153F for 60 min.
Fly Sparge. Boil for 60min.
Pitched @64F/Allowed to ferment @74F within 30hrs.
Hope I have been thorough enough. My question is I just took a reading @1.011 and had a taste. It's done fermenting and tastes fresh, but does not have any of the characteristics of a Belgian. It's been in the primary for 10 days now. I would say that the closest comparison would be like a Newcastle Brown Ale with a hint of biscuit. Can anyone advise on what I could/can be doing differently? I really enjoy the flavors of say...Duvel, Gulden Draak, Deleriums, even New Belgiums Abbey Ale. I realize that I will not be able to make carbon flavor copies, but am looking for characteristics of a Belgian. Thank you everyone.

 

[40watt]

I have never used 1762, but it seems to me you have done all the right things. At this point you should taste plenty of yeast characteristics.
I think I've heard that the Rochefort strain can present very cleanly in certain instances, but you should have some phenols present.

I want to help, but I just don't know what could be happening.

 

[kizyle01]

I'm relatively new and also just recently did my first dark strong. I used the wyeast Trappist high gravity which I believe is the westmalle strain and fermented on the low side for two weeks. Mine turned out real nice with the dark belgian notes that I think your referring too.

 

[chickypad]

I agree it sounds like your process is sound. I'm not familiar with that yeast either but the wyeast site says it gives a "clean profile", and I find it interesting that they list styles other than Belgians that it can be used for, such as barleywines, RIS, and scotch ale. None of the other Belgian strains I have used from them list anything but Belgian ales. Next time I would give 3787 or 3522 a try.

 

[Carlos_AO]

Thanks for all the advice. I will bottle carbonate in about 1 week and see from there. I like the recommendation of using 3787. I will replicate and use instead of 1762. Maybe try for a lower attenuation. I think 86% might be too high sacrificing body for ABV. Do you think step mashing would increase dextrose/malt body? What temps would anyone recommend? Thanks again.

 

[40watt]

I use 3787 for many things. It is definitely a great attenuator.

I suppose you could try a protein rest. Or you could mash higher.

I don't step mash and tend to address these concerns with ingredients.
Bit of wheat. Or oats. Or possibly carapils would be more appropriate in this case.

 

[chickypad]

I do almost 100% single infusion mashes, but aren't step mashes to help improve attenuation (thereby lightening body), especially with undermodified malts? I think that's the opposite of what you are trying to do.

At any rate I don't think your problem is over attenuation and I'm not sure you would really want that for these styles. I've used 3787 a fair amount and commonly get 83-87% apparent attenuation, but there is plenty of Belgian character. I think your yeast just came out too clean for what you wanted.

 

[KTRyan]

I'm a little late to the party but here my 2 cents, I'd pitch warmer for a Belgian. A few degrees warmer then fermentation temperature allowing the yeast to create a more dominant flavor. Also I've used 1762 before and it does have a mild flavor compared to other Belgian yeasts think palm as compared to duvel.

 

[chickypad]

Good point about the temp, IME you have to be a little careful about the heavy phenolics though. I am very sensitive to them so after experimenting with different schedules I tend to pitch around 65-65 then increase a degree or two per day to 74 by about 6-7 days. I know some folks prefer more of that character, so besides trying different yeasts playing around with temp a bit is not a bad idea.

 

[Carlos_AO]

What would you say are the caveats of pitching 3787 @ 68F and letting ferment through with an increase of 74-76F in less than 2 days?

 

[chickypad]

Try it and see. I do know that pitching warm and fermenting in the high 70's got me into band aid territory. Now I still get some light clove and nice fruit (kinda pear/apple flavors) but no band aid. Pitching rates probably also play a factor. I know some folks like to intentionally underpitch to stress the yeast a little but that makes me nervous.

 

[hokieguy95]

I have no experience with this strain, but I've made three Belgians and what I do know is that they taste completely different once you get 3 months carbonation and bottle conditioning. Maybe it's going to be a very good Belgian.

 

[Kee]

Getting that Belgian flavor cannot be that easy. I have tried a few different yeast, such as WL570 and WY1388, and fermented on the low side and a little high (but never much past the mid 70's. I usually mash around 149, using mostly Belgian Pilsner malt. I usually end up with some nice beer but so far Moorgat has nothing to worry about. But I am still trying and very interested in this thread.

 

[40watt]

What would you say are the caveats of pitching 3787 @ 68F and letting ferment through with an increase of 74-76F in less than 2 days?

I've done this with Westmalle (3787). Pitched at 68 and allowed to free rise. I've gotten some nice beers out of it.

In a big beer, I suppose you would be running the risk of some fusels. In that case, I try to keep it restrained for 48 hours minimum.

 

[Carlos_AO]

Try it and see. I do know that pitching warm and fermenting in the high 70's got me into band aid territory. Now I still get some light clove and nice fruit (kinda pear/apple flavors) but no band aid. Pitching rates probably also play a factor. I know some folks like to intentionally underpitch to stress the yeast a little but that makes me nervous.

Thats interesting about band aid territory. I have read that certain brews i.e. Duvel, allow theirs to reach as high as 80F. I wonder how they control the band aids.

 

[Carlos_AO]

I've done this with Westmalle (3787). Pitched at 68 and allowed to free rise. I've gotten some nice beers out of it.

In a big beer, I suppose you would be running the risk of some fusels. In that case, I try to keep it restrained for 48 hours minimum.

Out of curiousity, how high does it free rise? Are these 19L batches? My current batch, I broke up into 2 3 gallon fermenters to better control temps.

 

[harrke]

1762 is fairly clean unless it is "mistreated" -- say a high temperature, low oxygen, or under pitched.

What was your fermentation schedule?

 

[40watt]

Out of curiousity, how high does it free rise? Are these 19L batches? My current batch, I broke up into 2 3 gallon fermenters to better control temps.

5 gallon batches. The highest temp I got was 74 degrees a couple days in.
I thought I might get some fusel alchohols, but did not.

 

[Carlos_AO]

1762 is fairly clean unless it is "mistreated" -- say a high temperature, low oxygen, or under pitched.

What was your fermentation schedule?

Aerated with O2. Pitched @ 64F. Let temp free rise to 74F in 30 hrs. Held at 74F for 24 hrs. Brought down to 68F for the other 48 hrs of kraüsen. Conditioning now at 66F. Total time in fermenter now is 12 days. OG 1.076 FG 1.011

 

[KTRyan]

First let me say that I think you would be absolutely fine, pitching at 68 and allowing a gradual warm up to the low to mid 70's will give you a good profile and the warm later fermenting should give you nice attenuation. Secondly, understand the concern about phenolics and fusels, and I honestly may not be that sensitive to them. I normally brew a White and a Golden every year. pitching at 78-80 and fermenting 70-74, the golden gets conditioned in a secondary fermenter in the low 60's for at least a month and get great results on both of them. Let me also say that Belgians are the only beers I pitch warmer then I ferment.

 

[chickypad]

Thats interesting about band aid territory. I have read that certain brews i.e. Duvel, allow theirs to reach as high as 80F. I wonder how they control the band aids.

Probably lots of variables, and even lots of differences between homebrewers' experiences. That particular one I attributed to pitching hot - I mean like 80 - but who knows, I've never tried it again. I know I'm more sensitive to those flavors than some of my friends so that's part of it. You should be able to find the sweet spot for you with some experimentation.

 

[40watt]

I have to say the only time I ever experienced any band aid flavor was my first batch. It was due to chloramine remaining in my brew water.