Beire De Garde Recipe Feedback

[cmac62]

So it is a little late, but I would like some feedback on my latest brew recipe. I split this batch, 5 gals each, with a brewing bud.

10.5 gal batch
all grain
12 lb Am 2 row
10 lb Marris Otter
6 lb Am light munich

mashed at 143f for 90, mashed out at 168f with 60 min fly. Then boiled for 90 mins

1 oz Chezc Saaz
1 oz Tettnang both 60 min additions

wirflock at 15 min

OG came in at 1.065
Looking for a dry 1.011 or so FG.

Made a 1500 mil starter with WLP 590 French saison and WLP 500 Monestery Ale. I pitched it fairly warm, around 75f, and this a.m. it was in krousen.

I plan to let it sit in primary for about 3 to 4 weeks and then move to a keg and lager for around 6 wks. This style may be the comp style for our May Brewfest, so I would like to improve on the recipe prior to brewing the comp batch.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[Omahawk]

@SoCal-Doug made some cool obersvations on my post about a dark Biere de Garde a few days back.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/darker-biere-de-garde-recipe.642125/#post-8171937

 

[Omahawk]

I’m curious how this turns out. Your really low mash temp without sugar to get it dry is a great compromise to what I did in my mine (1 lb sugar and 148F mash). The yeast selection sounds great too.

What are your IBUs? ~15?

 

[brewshki]

were you able to get full conversion at such a low mash temp?

 

[cmac62]

I’m curious how this turns out. Your really low mash temp without sugar to get it dry is a great compromise to what I did in my mine (1 lb sugar and 148F mash). The yeast selection sounds great too.

What are your IBUs? ~15?

I totally forgot to use any sugar and my friend goofed a bit on the strike temp so it ended up super low. I don't recall the specific IBUs, but likely in the 15-20 range.

were you able to get full conversion at such a low mash temp?

I hope so, I know we ended up with a OG of 1.065 and hope to get down to about 1.011 or so.

 

[cmac62]

Omahawk, thanks for the link above. Obviously we were on similar plains of oblivion this weekend, as I brewed the above on Sunday. SoCalDoug has an interesting take of the style. Biere De Garde is indeed a difficult nut to crack, but sounds like the style is pretty wide. I know that my beer was in full K. by the next morning.

 

[cmac62]

I just ran my recipe through tasty brew calculator and it has my IBU at 16, which is low for the style. Everything else was spot on.

 

[Omahawk]

I totally forgot to use any sugar and my friend goofed a bit on the strike temp so it ended up super low. I don't recall the specific IBUs, but likely in the 15-20 range.

It might not be a goof. Maybe it’s freaking brilliant. If I’m doing my math right, 1.065 SG for 28 lbs of malt and 10.5 gallons means you still got about 70% efficiency. Not too shabby. Report back on how the body came out on this at 143F.

 

[cmac62]

It might not be a goof. Maybe it’s freaking brilliant. If I’m doing my math right, 1.065 SG for 28 lbs of malt and 10.5 gallons means you still got about 70% efficiency. Not too shabby. Report back on how the body came out on this at 143F.

Will do The fermentation has slowed down significantly and the color is much lighter that when it went into the fermenter. I'm gonna leave it in primary for another few weeks before I transfer it to a keg for lagering. I will likely bottle either from the keg or regular after the lager is complete. thanks for the feedback.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Sounds like a perfectly good and Garde'able (is that a word? lol) brew. I am very intrigued by the 143 though, you are into some rarely charted territory. Fingers crossed that you can get down to 1.010 or lower. Please keep us posted on the taste and sniff results!

Here's one of my "regularly on tap Garde's". Complex maltiness but dry as hell with a dense head. Floral and citrusy on the nose with all the yeast funk right there with it (I may try this recipe with brett sometime). Off the top of my head (I'm not near beersmith at the moment) the overview numbers are: OG around 1.056, FG around 1.003, SRM around 7, ABV around 6.5, using BHE=86% and ME=92%. If you want malt liquor or wine level alcohol, you can add sugar, but I think its silly.

8lb Belgian Pils or Maris Otter
8oz CaraPils (yes, this is cheating)
8oz Munich
8oz Vienna
5oz Special B (don't laugh until you try it)
Saaz 13 IBU at 60 mins
Citra 4 or 5 IBU at 5 mins (the citrusy works great with the funky)

112 for 15 mins, 122 for 15 mins, 148 for 60 mins, 168 for 5 min then sparge. Boil for 60, 75, 90 or whatever makes your boat float.

Half and Half Dupont culture and 3711, pitch at or below 70, after 24 hours let it rise to at least 85F (summer brews will hit 90). It will be done within a week. Keg it and drink it. None of that sitting in the fermenter for weeks and weeks.

And here's what it looks like in about 8 days going into the keg.

 

[cmac62]

Doug, that looks like a great beer, so clear, did you fine it, Jello or wirflock? I was going to lager, but dang. Eight days

 

[SoCal-Doug]

No fining, no whirlfloc, no gelatin. The Dupont gives off a lot of flavor and the 3711 contributes as well. The 3711 is a most evil beast and does not play around, it gets the job done. The protein rest helps a lot with clearing that recipe. 3711 is listed as a low flocculator, but the result speaks otherwise. It's also listed as 77 to 82 attenuation but anyone who has used it knows better than that. The flavors and results are even better after 4 or 5 generations/cycles. The protein rest and the low mash temp is why I add back in a touch of carapils to bring back some head and a little mouth feel. Just brew it and enjoy it. My buddy's and I just killed another third corny of it tonight.

If you are afraid to ferment in the mid to high 80's, all bets are off and don't plan on eight days. You also wont get the yeast flavors.

 

[HomemadeSauce]

I'm also curious to hear how this ferments. Both of those recipes look great.

I'm planning a 3.5 gallon batch of Biere de Garde, sort of going for the Biere de Mars subsection, to experiment with some Loral hops I purchased. Straight-forward malt bill: 50% Pilsner, 34% Wheat, 15% Munich, 1% Special B. Hopping with Loral to get around 22 IBU. I just need to decide on a yeast strain to use. I have 3724 (Saison), 3522 (Ardennes), and 3787 (Trappist) around. Leaning toward the Ardennes yeast but any thoughts are appreciated. I have some Jolly Pumpkin dregs as well, although I'll probably save those for another brew.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

I have 3724 (Saison), 3522 (Ardennes), and 3787 (Trappist) around. Leaning toward the Ardennes yeast but any thoughts are appreciated.

My first choice would be the 3724, primarily Saison, Garde, Farmhouse style. Second choice would be 3522, which is more of a basic Belgian ale. Both are yummy but the 3522 will throw less pronounced flavors. With the munich and wheat, the 3724 should balance a bit better, but everyone's tastes are different. If you use the 3724, ferment it hot to really develop its intended character (tart, spice and fruity), pitch in the 70's, then raise it to 90 if you can.

 

[HomemadeSauce]

Doug, I appreciate the input, and will most likely go that route. Looking through my notes, I do enjoy the character 3724 provides more than 3522. My initial thought being the Ardennes is less pronounced and would give a clearer hop profile; however, if I truly wanted that I should just brew a pale ale. Time to get a starter going.

 

[cmac62]

I'm going to get my bdg into the keg today and then drop it into the fridge for a few wks. I'll let you know what the final gravity ended as.

 

[FunkedOut]

Funny reading this today, as I am heating strike water up for a 146*F mash.

 

[FunkedOut]

were you able to get full conversion at such a low mash temp?

Well, I measured temps after doughing in and after a 90min mash; 148*F & 143*F.
This was BIAB in the kettle with reflectix and a blanket.

I got 77% mash efficiency on a 1.077 beer.

 

[cmac62]

I ended up not getting my BDG into the keg, but I did do a gravity check and it is done at 1.012. I'm currently fermenting a lager in the fridge so I don't have room for a corney. The gravity sample tasted really good, and very BDGish. I did find out that the Cal HBA is not going to use this as their comp beer for the up-coming fest. I will have to see what the comp beer is and post as I work with my recipe.

 

[HomemadeSauce]

I ended up not getting my BDG into the keg, but I did do a gravity check and it is done at 1.012. I'm currently fermenting a lager in the fridge so I don't have room for a corney. The gravity sample tasted really good, and very BDGish. I did find out that the Cal HBA is not going to use this as their comp beer for the up-coming fest. I will have to see what the comp beer is and post as I work with my recipe.

Sounds pretty good! Mine was down to 1.009 yesterday (from 1.055). Turns out I had 3726 instead of 3724 so I used that. Was happy with the sample I tasted, although I do wish I could ferment at higher temps. Moved the keg into the garage to age for a few weeks, and also siphoned off a gallon to age on hibiscus flowers and Jolly Pumpkin dregs.

 

[cmac62]

Sounds pretty good! Mine was down to 1.009 yesterday (from 1.055). Turns out I had 3726 instead of 3724 so I used that. Was happy with the sample I tasted, although I do wish I could ferment at higher temps. Moved the keg into the garage to age for a few weeks, and also siphoned off a gallon to age on hibiscus flowers and Jolly Pumpkin dregs.

Jolly pumpkin dregs? the hibiscus flowers sound interesting though.

 

[cmac62]

Well, I measured temps after doughing in and after a 90min mash; 148*F & 143*F.
This was BIAB in the kettle with reflectix and a blanket.

I got 77% mash efficiency on a 1.077 beer.

a 5 deg drop over 90 mins is not too bad. Since starting out low anyway the wart should be super fermentable.

 

[cmac62]

I got to get this into a keg. Maybe today as I will be off in the afternoon.

 

[HomemadeSauce]

Jolly pumpkin dregs? the hibiscus flowers sound interesting though.

Ha, yep. Just thought it would be an interesting sour experiment. I built up a culture from one of their bottles not too long ago. The beer has developed a great color over the past few days. Ought to take a photo.

 

[cmac62]

Jolly pumpkin is a beer then?

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Jolly pumpkin is a beer then?

No. Nothing involving pumpkin should be consumed in any way

 

[HomemadeSauce]

Agreed, Doug. You'll never find me working with pumpkin. JP is a sour brewery in Michigan. Excellent beers.

http://brewery.jollypumpkin.com/all-biere/

 

[FunkedOut]

Funny reading this today, as I am heating strike water up for a 146*F mash.

Well, I measured temps after doughing in and after a 90min mash; 148*F & 143*F.
This was BIAB in the kettle with reflectix and a blanket.

I got 77% mash efficiency on a 1.077 beer.

a 5 deg drop over 90 mins is not too bad. Since starting out low anyway the wart should be super fermentable.

Took a gravity reading tonight (day 10).
Looks like US-05 is done at 1.012; thats 83.4% attenuation with 8.6% ABV.

Beersmith was predicting 1.014 FG with the mash set to 90 min of 146*F.
If I change the mash temp to 145*F (the median of the measured mash), it predicts 1.012.

 

[cmac62]

So Monday, I got the BDG into the keg. Now to sit in the lager fridge for a couple of months. The sample tasted great, even without the bubbles.
The FG came in at 1.012.

 

[HomemadeSauce]

Opened my first bottle last night and truly enjoyed how this turned out. Solid head retention, a faint orange aroma along with some burnt sugar and bready malt. Came across fairly dry with just a little bitterness on the back end. At first I wasn't very impressed as I've been drinking more experimental brews lately while this is straightforward. Once I got in the right headspace I enjoyed this beer a ton. Anyone else tried theirs?