Beginner in need of serious help!

[animalmother90]

Hi all

I'm on my third batch of all grain home brewing. The first two came out pretty well but not as flavoursome as I would have liked. After looking at my brew logs I realised my mash temperatures were too low/dropping so I have reworked my mash schedule.

Now I have new problems!

1) First problem is I seem to be losing a LOT of wort across the process. I am making small batches (5L target for the fermentor). I started out with 1.5kg of grist to 4.5L of liquor on a 60 min mash. I pitched at 70C and after 30 mins I took a reading and it had dropped to 62C so I added a further litre of boiling water to bring the temp back up. After 60 mins I circulated the wort and drew out into my boil pan around 4L. I then did a batch sparge of 3.75L which left me with around 7.5L in my boil pan - which I was happy with.

I boiled for 60 mins, adding three batches of hop pellets (60, 30, 0) and then ice bath cooled. Whirlpooled then siphoned into my fermentor. This is where I'm confused because from 7.5L I'm down to around 3.5L to ferment. Is this right? Have I sprung a leak? My last two brews lost about 1-1.5L in the boil so something isn't going right.

2) Second issue is, I pitched the yeast at around 15C and left the fermentor in a room temp around 23C. Today I woke up to find there is no Krausen, but instead there is a strange collection of 'matter' floating in the beer - see pics below. Is this an infection or something I'm missing?

Any help would be much appreciated because I'm starting to get disheartened.

Cheers

James

 

[Gnomebrewer]

The stuff in the beer just looks like hot and cold break (clumped proteins) to me. How much yeast are you pitching? A whole packed of yeast would be overpitching and might explain the lack of krausen (just guessing here).

 

[Shawn_Brewin]

15*C seems low to pitch. what kind of yeast did you use? That does look like cold / hot break, but usually that kind of break falls to the bottom of your fermenter over the first couple hours... you could possibly have some sort of infection or foreign substance in there. Does it have a off smell?
As for your volumes post boil, are you using a bigger pot? a more vigorous boil? usually i loose about 2.5L an hour on boil off, but it is effected by surface area of your pot and the heat.
Don't let it get you down, keep pushing forward and keep lots of detailed notes to see were you are varying! Don't give up the good fight!

 

[animalmother90]

The stuff in the beer just looks like hot and cold break (clumped proteins) to me. How much yeast are you pitching? A whole packed of yeast would be overpitching and might explain the lack of krausen (just guessing here).

I pitched a half pack of S-04. Will this even out over time?

 

[ol-hazza]

It looks more like krausen To me. Not like any krausen i ve ever had but They are weird and i wouldnt be worried about it? They will look different depnding on yeast strain, wind direction, temperature etc.

As far as the wort loses go, how much did you leave in the kettle after whirlpooling, and how vigourous was your boil?

I've never done a batch that size but im guessing that it wouldnt take to much difference in the flame size or element stting to radically change your boil off rate. I would just have think about anything that might have been different and take note next brew.

Alternatively you can add water to the wort post boil to get up to volume and it shouldnt change the flavour drastically.

Also no need too whirlpool IMO, just dump it all in. The trub will settle out, get covered by a layer of yeast and not bother the beer. I hate leaving wort in my kettle and filter out the hops n larger matter with a star san'd seive but the rest goes in.

Oh and as for the mash temps make sure you stir the water into the grist well and take a temp reading after that, then insulate it somehow, wrap it in a jacket, put it in the oven on low. This will help keep the temps in check.

after all that it looks like you are well on track making beer, just a matter of honing down the process a bit here and there, but you have the basics set.

Also i recommend using some resources like priceless brewings biab calculator and brewersfriend/ beersmith to get a few reference points for recipes, mash temps, strike temps volumes etc etc, and also a refractometer for gravity readings that dont use much wort.

Anyway i feel like im rambling, hope this helps

 

[Derek1985]

I am making small batches (5L target for the fermentor). I started out with 1.5kg of grist to 4.5L of liquor on a 60 min mash. I pitched at 70C and after 30 mins I took a reading and it had dropped to 62C so I added a further litre of boiling water to bring the temp back up. After 60 mins I circulated the wort and drew out into my boil pan around 4L. I then did a batch sparge of 3.75L which left me with around 7.5L in my boil pan - which I was happy with.

I do ~1 gal batches as well and these numbners seemed okay. By my calculations your strike water and pre-boil target volumes were a bit low but nothing major. What are you mashing in? Assuming you were shooting for about 146-148F, losing heat down to 143F in 30 minutes doesn't seem right.

On a single infusion mash, you would expect 160F strike water to equalize at around 148F and stay pretty close for an hour. My 2 gal Coleman stacker mash tun maintains temp across an hour within 1-2F, even though it isn't insulated very well.

I boiled for 60 mins, adding three batches of hop pellets (60, 30, 0) and then ice bath cooled. Whirlpooled then siphoned into my fermentor. This is where I'm confused because from 7.5L I'm down to around 3.5L to ferment. Is this right? Have I sprung a leak? My last two brews lost about 1-1.5L in the boil so something isn't going right.

You would expect 15% or so of boil off, give or take. Did you factor in wort shrinkage after cooling? Trub loss?

 

[animalmother90]

15*C seems low to pitch. what kind of yeast did you use? That does look like cold / hot break, but usually that kind of break falls to the bottom of your fermenter over the first couple hours... you could possibly have some sort of infection or foreign substance in there. Does it have a off smell?
As for your volumes post boil, are you using a bigger pot? a more vigorous boil? usually i loose about 2.5L an hour on boil off, but it is effected by surface area of your pot and the heat.
Don't let it get you down, keep pushing forward and keep lots of detailed notes to see were you are varying! Don't give up the good fight!

Thanks for the help mate. It was actually around 19C. I haven't smelt it yet because I didn't want to remove the lid and airlock. I did use a big pot for the boil, 32cm so the 7.5L looked a bit low in there and was boiling pretty hard. I guess that's not out of the way then. Im just hoping this brew turns around and isn't ruined.

 

[animalmother90]

It looks more like krausen To me. Not like any krausen i ve ever had but They are weird and i wouldnt be worried about it? They will look different depnding on yeast strain, wind direction, temperature etc.

As far as the wort loses go, how much did you leave in the kettle after whirlpooling, and how vigourous was your boil?

I've never done a batch that size but im guessing that it wouldnt take to much difference in the flame size or element stting to radically change your boil off rate. I would just have think about anything that might have been different and take note next brew.

Alternatively you can add water to the wort post boil to get up to volume and it shouldnt change the flavour drastically.

Also no need too whirlpool IMO, just dump it all in. The trub will settle out, get covered by a layer of yeast and not bother the beer. I hate leaving wort in my kettle and filter out the hops n larger matter with a star san'd seive but the rest goes in.

Oh and as for the mash temps make sure you stir the water into the grist well and take a temp reading after that, then insulate it somehow, wrap it in a jacket, put it in the oven on low. This will help keep the temps in check.

after all that it looks like you are well on track making beer, just a matter of honing down the process a bit here and there, but you have the basics set.

Also i recommend using some resources like priceless brewings biab calculator and brewersfriend/ beersmith to get a few reference points for recipes, mash temps, strike temps volumes etc etc, and also a refractometer for gravity readings that dont use much wort.

Anyway i feel like im rambling, hope this helps

There wasn't much left in the boil pan after whirlpool but there was a LOT of trub and bits left in the pan and the siphon wasn't pulling anymore.

I think I probably boiled it too hard, I had it on a strong rolling boil for an hour in a large pan.

My last two batches (which were much bigger - around 15L) came out good, just not flavoursome enough, so I was really concentrating on the mash and hop profile this time. I guess it's just about experimenting. Seeing that in the top of the beer this morning did get me panicking though.

 

[RM-MN]

You have the control over how much you lose between the mash and the fermenter. If your mash tun has a lot of dead space you need to sparge with a larger amount to get the right pre boil amount. When you boil, you control how hard of a boil you have. My boil is pretty weak but seems to be enough to drive of any DMS. I usually boil off only half a gallon in an hour long boil.

The next place you lose volume is your whirlpool. Don't. That's right, just don't whirlpool, dump it all into the fermenter and let the yeast use what it wants and the rest will settle out there. Experiments have shown that beers fermented with all the trub will clear better than those where a whirlpool was used. When you whirlpool, you are shooting yourself in the foot....twice because you lose volume of beer and end up with cloudier beer for all your effort. When all the fermentation is done, let your beer have time to settle out well and the yeast cake to compact before you go to bottle or keg. I usually leave my beers in the fermenter for 3 weeks or more and get very little yeast in the bottles.

 

[animalmother90]

Thanks guys - this is really helping.

On the subject of loss of wort - is it too late now to add water to the beer to bring the levels back up? Once the yeast it pitched I guess it would be.

 

[Derek1985]

I think the combination of wort shrinkage, trub loss and excessive boil off cause your drop in volume.

Did you record all these volumes for posterity's sake? You could use them as loss inputs on your next brew.

 

[ol-hazza]

Thanks guys - this is really helping.

On the subject of loss of wort - is it too late now to add water to the beer to bring the levels back up? Once the yeast it pitched I guess it would be.

Ive never done it, but provided you boil the water and add it with very minimal splashing you should be fine.

 

[Shawn_Brewin]

you can add more water, but like Ol-Hazza said, boil first and try not to aerate the wort with splashing. Try siphoning the water into the wort, keep your hose just above the surface, start the flow and once the liquid is just starting to flow, submerge the siphon tube. As an added note, make sure the water you are adding is pretty close to the same temp as the wort. You don't want to temperature shock the yeast.

 

[animalmother90]

The beer has now started happily bubbling away, in fact there seems to be a LOT of activity - more so than my last two brews. I've considered adding but more water but I don't want to risk another variable on the output so I'm going to stick with it.

The beer itself has become less clear than it was but the 'stuff' that was floating on the top seems to be reducing - see attached pics - and a Kreusen has now formed. With time will the beer clear and the 'stuff' dissipate?

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1439474251.306692.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1439474269.566956.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1439474287.968453.jpg

 

[ol-hazza]

The beer has now started happily bubbling away, in fact there seems to be a LOT of activity - more so than my last two brews. I've considered adding but more water but I don't want to risk another variable on the output so I'm going to stick with it.

The beer itself has become less clear than it was but the 'stuff' that was floating on the top seems to be reducing - see attached pics - and a Kreusen has now formed. With time will the beer clear and the 'stuff' dissipate?

Yeh that will clear up and drop out, looking very normal. do you have a hydrometer or refractometer?