Before I Begin . . .

[Gytaryst]

I resisted as long as I could and have finally decided to venture into the world of kegging. I bought my first corny keg last week to use as a secondary fermentation vessel on a festbier I just brewed. That opened the flood gates and caused me to stop fighting it and coming up with excuses for not kegging - and just start kegging. So for the past week I've been surfing the interweb reading whatever I can find to help me make (hopefully) informed decisions. I hate spending money on something and finding out afterwards that I should have bought something else instead. So I was hoping to get these 4 questions answered real quick, just to hopefully cut down on the number of trails I have to follow while trying to educate myself on this newest aspect of my obsession.

1. I thought it was as simple as ball lock vs pin lock. But then there’s Cornelius Spartan, Challenger V Challenger VI, John Wood… are there any pros or cons to these brands?

2. On the ball lock disconnects I noticed some come with a barb on them where you just attach the hose and others come threaded for a swivel connection. The difference seems self-explanatory, I was just wondering if one method is commonly preferred over the other?

3. When I looked at hoses I noticed (again) a wide variety of sizes and materials; clear, red, black, blue . . . So (again) I was wondering - is there a certain size and/or material that most people agree is best?

4. What should I look for in a regulator?

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

Dont rule out Sanke kegs ...IMHO, a superior vessel compared to the soda kegs.

 

[xpops]

i prefer the swivel connection for gas/ball lock disconnects. it allows for quicker connect/disconnect of tubing if needed, vs the worm clamps.
Clear tubing would typically be your beerline, and red would be higher pressure gas lines. black and blue...i've personally never seen those as options.

depending on how big you'd like to grow, it's nice to have a dual regulator to pressurize kegs at diffferent PSI. I run one of my guages to a manifold for serving my already carbed kegs, and then i hookup fresh kegs to the second regulator to force carb at a higher pressure before reducing to serving.

there's about a thousand different ways you can configure your keezer/kegerator/etc. I would think of what you want your end result to be (4 kegs, 6 kegs, more??) and work backwards, and planning for expansion. It's cheaper to build it bigger, than to build small then start replacing everything!

keep us posted!

 

[kh54s10]

I would say that the manufacturer of the keg is not important.

I use disconnects with just the barb. Cost was on my mind, also I bought a 2 keg kit to start and that is what it came with.

I don't know about all the hoses, but I bought a cheap clear on and when cold it is very stiff.

Buy a good regulator, the cheap one that came with my discount kit was very hard to adjust and crapped out after a year or so. I ended up buying a Taprite and have been pleased with it.

 

[JamesonFan]

The colored hoses are generally used for CO2 from the regulator to the kegs (or distribution block, however you're running it).

I agree with @kh54s10, buy a good dual-gauge regulator. If you're force carbonating your kegs, it's nice to have a good regulator to go back and forth from high pressure to serving pressure in a few seconds.

Ball lock kegs appear to be a bit easier to use than pin lock. I own pin lock and there is no pressure release valve in the lid. You can buy aftermarket lids with the PRV, but in most cases, you have to disconnect the gas, and depress the poppet to purge the keg. But to save money, I'd buy some used corny kegs (brand doesn't matter) from a homebrew shop that tests the pressure of them prior to selling them. Nothing worse than paying $30-50 for a used corny and it doesn't hold pressure.

 

[SEndorf]

Another vote for a good regulator. Look at Taprite. I prefer their large control knobs.
Some of the starter "kegging kits" I looked at come with junk.
Don't try to save money on this. It will end up costing you more later.

 

[Gytaryst]

Dont rule out Sanke kegs ...IMHO, a superior vessel compared to the soda kegs.

I was looking at a 1/6 barrel this morning. I guess because I haven't heard many people mention them I just assumed they weren't a reasonable option. I'll definitely take a closer look.

... Clear tubing would typically be your beerline, and red would be higher pressure gas lines. black and blue...i've personally never seen those as options.

https://www.kegoutlet.com/hoses.html This is just one of the pages I ran across. I was more concerned with the sizes than the colors. I've seen pictures of kegerator set ups so I got that the co2 was sometimes colored, (red, blue or black), and that the beer lines are usually clear for obvious reasons. I was more wondering about all the different sizes?

... depending on how big you'd like to grow, it's nice to have a dual regulator to pressurize kegs at diffferent PSI. I run one of my guages to a manifold for serving my already carbed kegs, and then i hookup fresh kegs to the second regulator to force carb at a higher pressure before reducing to serving.

From what I read the single gauge measures output pressure where the dual gauge measures output pressure as well as tank pressure. I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. I know there are dual regulators, triple regulators and quadruple regulators where you can adjust different output pressures for different beers. I'm not that far into it at this point. I was more wondering if the second gauge to measure tank pressure is really needed?

... there's about a thousand different ways you can configure your keezer/kegerator/etc. I would think of what you want your end result to be (4 kegs, 6 kegs, more??) and work backwards, and planning for expansion.

Yup. My immediate goal is to buy a co2 tank, another keg and a picnic tap so I can keg this festbier and just throw it in the freezer I use for fermenting. I know I want to buy at least one more keg after that and eventually build either a 2 tap or 4 tap kegerator set up, (leaning toward 4 tap). Just trying to get a handle on equipment before I actually start buying stuff.

I would say that the manufacturer of the keg is not important.

Yeah, I thought there was just pin lock and ball lock until I started looking for parts for the one I bought.

... I don't know about all the hoses, but I bought a cheap clear on and when cold it is very stiff.

I'll keep looking into hoses. I was mostly concerned with all the sizes; 3/16, 3/8, 5/16, 1/2, 1/4... Just want to make sure I go with whatever size people have found works best. And hose seems fairly cheap in the overall scheme of things so I have no problem getting the best - just trying to find out what the best is.

Buy a good regulator, the cheap one that came with my discount kit was very hard to adjust and crapped out after a year or so. I ended up buying a Taprite and have been pleased with it.

Yes. I know I'm going to (eventually) have at least 2 and probably 4 taps. Just trying to decide if I'm going to want individual pressure adjustments for each keg.

... But to save money, I'd buy some used corny kegs (brand doesn't matter) from a homebrew shop that tests the pressure of them prior to selling them. Nothing worse than paying $30-50 for a used corny and it doesn't hold pressure.

I'll probably stick with new kegs from now on. I bought this one used because I wanted one for a secondary fermenter and it was cheap. But since I'll only be adding one at a time now I figure I might as well just get em new and not worry about it.

Another vote for a good regulator. Look at Taprite. I prefer their large control knobs.
Some of the starter "kegging kits" I looked at come with junk.
Don't try to save money on this. It will end up costing you more later.

I hear ya. That's pretty much why I asked. I definitely want to buy quality stuff. I'm frugal but I learned a long time ago that just going by the cheapest price isn't always the cheapest option in the long run. On the other side of that coin, spending more money doesn't always equate to better quality. Trying to educate myself before I start plunking down cash.
Thanks all

 

[Jtk78]

I just set up two kegs. I would tell anyone asking to get the threaded swivel adapters for the keg disconnects and anywhere else you can use them, i.e. gas manifolds, faucet shanks. Makes moving things around so much easier.

 

[myndflyte]

My setup uses 5/16" gas lines and 3/16" beer lines. Depending on the kind of disconnects you use, if you don't go with swivel nuts, you're at the mercy of what is on there, and if you go with swivel nuts, be sure to get the correct barb size.

For beer, the line is usually either 3/16" or 1/4". Depending on your setup, you may want to use one over the other. To see how hose diameter affects the hose length, this is the gold standard calculator: http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/

 

[Gytaryst]

My setup uses 5/16" gas lines and 3/16" beer lines. Depending on the kind of disconnects you use, if you don't go with swivel nuts, you're at the mercy of what is on there, and if you go with swivel nuts, be sure to get the correct barb size.

For beer, the line is usually either 3/16" or 1/4". Depending on your setup, you may want to use one over the other. To see how hose diameter affects the hose length, this is the gold standard calculator: http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/

Good information - thank you. Seems like I'm constantly buying equipment to do stuff I've never done before, and since I've never done it, knowing what to buy is a challenge. I do have one question. (well okay, I have thousands of questions). But the one that immediately comes to mind is:

I left all the default info in the calculator and changed only the hose diameter. According to that I would need about 12' of 3/16 hose and 47' of 1/4" hose? It seems like a lot for only 1/16th of an inch difference in diameter, but I'm no engineer.

Based on that I'm guessing I probably want to stick with 3/16 beer lines.

 

[myndflyte]

From what I understand is that by using the larger diameter hose, there isn't as much resistance to slow the flow rate of the beer down, as there is in the smaller diameter hose, and that is why the longer length is needed. It seems like 1/4" hose is only really useful for bars or setups where the beer is traveling a good distance or at a low pressure. But I use about 10 feet of 3/16" hose with the regulator set to 13 or 14 psi and it's perfect for my setup.

 

[xpops]

From what I understand is that by using the larger diameter hose, there isn't as much resistance to slow the flow rate of the beer down, as there is in the smaller diameter hose, and that is why the longer length is needed. It seems like 1/4" hose is only really useful for bars or setups where the beer is traveling a good distance or at a low pressure. But I use about 10 feet of 3/16" hose with the regulator set to 13 or 14 psi and it's perfect for my setup.

That's my exact setup. 10' hoses of 3/16" with swivel nuts, at about 14psi. works great for me, but i do get more head on the beer when my keg is getting close to being kicked. i feeeeeeel like this is normal though?....i just deal with it, and it's a nice indicator that the keg is getting low

 

[SEndorf]

definitely 3/16 for the beer line. The gas line can be whatever diameter you want.

 

[Gytaryst]

... But I use about 10 feet of 3/16" hose with the regulator set to 13 or 14 psi and it's perfect for my setup.

That's my exact setup. 10' hoses of 3/16" with swivel nuts, at about 14psi...

definitely 3/16 for the beer line. The gas line can be whatever diameter you want.

Great guys, thanks. That helps a bunch.

 

[Gytaryst]

I apologize for adding questions on top of questions. While still trying to put a list together I came across these two pieces of hardware:

The first is like $30 and the second is $199. I also found this:

I gathered from the last few replies where everyone said they just set their equipment at 12 to 14 psi, that adjusting the carbonation level for different styles isn't really a huge concern? Obviously it would be difficult to keep four kegs at four different temps in one kegerator.

Since I've always bottled I paid a certain amount of attention to carbonation levels according to styles. My stouts don't get near the priming sugar that my Belgian golden ales get, etc. I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes. Getting consistent carbonation was always an issue with bottling. Finding a balance between getting the priming sugar incorporated into the beer while at the same time trying not stir or agitate the beer always seemed like an exercise in futility to me.

Anyway - so many questions. I appreciate all the help. I was having trouble hitting my numbers for like 6 or 7 brews in a row. It was getting frustrating. I came on HBT and asked a few questions and got a truckload of tips and advice from a lot of people on here. I brewed a festbier 5 days ago and it was without hesitation the easiest most problem free brew day I've had. I hit my pH dead on, I hit my mash temp dead on, my pre-boil volume was right there and my pre-boil gravity was estimated to be 1.045 - I hit 1.048. I don't know that I've ever come that close and I know I've never gone over my target. Post boil volume was 6 gallons ON THE MONEY. OG was estimated at 1.056 I hit 1.058. The entire day I couldn't help thinking about everyone on this forum who chimed in and offered advice. The success of that brew day was not an accident and I know for a fact I didn't do myself. It's a pretty cool hobby and an awesome community to be a part of.

The only problem with that brew day was that haunting feeling all day that everything was going too smoothly . . . "What did I forget?"

Thanks again,

and CHEERS!

 

[Jtk78]

Not sure I really saw a question in that post, but I'll give my response to it. The advantage of the regulator set up is being able to have multiple CO2 pressures to kegs. Perhaps 30psi carbing on one keg, 10psi on one serving keg, and 14-15 on your Belgian beers. I don't think you'd really need four on a 4 tap setup, but perhaps you could find a reason. You could always do a 2 secondary regulators and you could add more regulators later if you needed. You could add a gas manifold (see below) after a regulator to split it up even more. I plan to have 4 eventually for these reasons: carbing low on CO2 for nitro beers, burst carbing if I wanted, serving at about 10psi, and serving at 14-15 for Belgians, wheat, wits, & hefe's

The first piece is a 4 way gas manifold. This would allow 1 pressure to go to all four spots. Two notes: Make sure to get one that has check valves. Murphy's law says one day beer is going to try and go up the gas line. Don't want that in your manifold or regulator. Also, if your getting the keg disconnects with the threaded end, buy a manifold with a threaded ends too. Again, easy as unscrew and your done. Quite frankly, pulling hoses off barbs sucks. No need to with the threaded adapters. I will have them on ALL of my connections, gas and beer.

 

[Mike_kever_kombi]

I apologize for adding questions on top of questions. While still trying to put a list together I came across these two pieces of hardware:

The first is like $30 and the second is $199. I also found this:

I gathered from the last few replies where everyone said they just set their equipment at 12 to 14 psi, that adjusting the carbonation level for different styles isn't really a huge concern? Obviously it would be difficult to keep four kegs at four different temps in one kegerator.

Since I've always bottled I paid a certain amount of attention to carbonation levels according to styles. My stouts don't get near the priming sugar that my Belgian golden ales get, etc. I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes. Getting consistent carbonation was always an issue with bottling. Finding a balance between getting the priming sugar incorporated into the beer while at the same time trying not stir or agitate the beer always seemed like an exercise in futility to me.

No. The chart you referenced to is your friend. Like you said you can’t keep 4 kegs at different temps in same fridge (freezer, keezer, kegerator, etc), so instead you must increase/decrease the pressure according to the chart, to achieve th desired volume of CO2. Pick the temperature you are holding at, and then find the volumes you want, and that will tell you the pressure. This is where the second manifold comes in to play, it will let you adjust each keg independent of one another.

My keezer holds 4 cornies, or 2 half kegs. So the manifold
With regulators is in the fridge. I also have a manifold like the first pictured. I use it to “Precarb” the kegs on deck. It sits outside the fridge, where I slightly under carb the kegs, so they are ready to go when I need a switch out.

Also, I would not buy the CO2 tanks. I bought my first 4, it because they are date stamped and only have a limited service life, i have found in the long run, it is cheaper to just go to AirGas and do the exchange, that way you always have tanks that are “in test”

 

[brewswithshoes]

my two cents. i would say at a minimum entry into this if you are looking to have a 4 keg setup down the road, i would get a dual regulator that you could then split the output with a 2X2 manifold or something. I'm sure you could find a reason to keep all 4 kegs at separate pressures, i doubt it is necessary and those setups are expensive. But on the flip of that, i don't think you'd ever have a time where you would want all 4 kegs on the same pressure. I'd look for something like this. (Pic below) where you can have 2 controls from a dual regulator (i know the pic shows 3), and then multiple lines off each control like the one on the right.

 

[Gytaryst]

my two cents. i would say at a minimum entry into this if you are looking to have a 4 keg setup down the road, i would get a dual regulator that you could then split the output with a 2X2 manifold or something. I'm sure you could find a reason to keep all 4 kegs at separate pressures, i doubt it is necessary and those setups are expensive. But on the flip of that, i don't think you'd ever have a time where you would want all 4 kegs on the same pressure. I'd look for something like this. (Pic below) where you can have 2 controls from a dual regulator (i know the pic shows 3), and then multiple lines off each control like the one on the right.

Yeah, this is the direction I was leaning anyway. My decision to go with a four tap kegerator is because I'd rather have extra taps and not need them than to need them and not have them. My favorite beers are big Belgian/Trappist ales, and when I brew those they get bottle conditioned in 750 cork & cage bottles. Even when I get this kegging thing going that part's not going to change. I honestly don't see me having four kegs tapped at once - but who knows?

I'm thinking the beers I keg will probably be beers that require similar carb levels and I'm guessing I'll only have two kegs tapped on a regular basis - possibly a third keg (occasionally). That picture you posted looks like the perfect solution for my needs.

 

[PADave]

I'm in the process of building my keezer, and like you researched things pretty thoroughly. Been planning my build for months now, and should be done this week. A couple thing I learned along the way from my single keg setup:
-I prefer buying new kegs. I did buy a couple used ones, but by the time I replaced everything, poppets, prv, I didn't save anything. New can be had for about $25 over used.

-I like the Ultra Barrier Antimicrobial & PVC Free tubing, 3/16 for liquid and I went with 5/16 for the gas. Line looks inexpensive, till you start realizing how much you need per tap, then multiplied by the number of taps. Adds up real quick.

-My new setup has mfl fittings almost everywhere. Makes things easier to pull apart if you need to switch something or to clean.

-I went with the Perlick flow control taps. Some people like them, some hate them. But you can run much shorter lines, with them.

-Buy once, cry once. Anything that the beer touches should be quality, or you have the potential for off flavors.

Here's the thread I started of my build:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/frigidair-8-7-cf-fffc09m1rw-keezer-build.639727/

 

[Gytaryst]

I'm in the process of building my keezer, and like you researched things pretty thoroughly. Been planning my build for months now, and should be done this week. A couple thing I learned along the way from my single keg setup:
-I prefer buying new kegs. I did buy a couple used ones, but by the time I replaced everything, poppets, prv, I didn't save anything. New can be had for about $25 over used.

-I like the Ultra Barrier Antimicrobial & PVC Free tubing, 3/16 for liquid and I went with 5/16 for the gas. Line looks inexpensive, till you start realizing how much you need per tap, then multiplied by the number of taps. Adds up real quick.

-My new setup has mfl fittings almost everywhere. Makes things easier to pull apart if you need to switch something or to clean.

-I went with the Perlick flow control taps. Some people like them, some hate them. But you can run much shorter lines, with them.

-Buy once, cry once. Anything that the beer touches should be quality, or you have the potential for off flavors.

Here's the thread I started of my build:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/frigidair-8-7-cf-fffc09m1rw-keezer-build.639727/

Good information. Looks like you're off to an awesome start. I agree with the guy who commented on your clamp collection too. Woodworking is my other hobby.

When I started brewing beer my intention was to just do small batches on the kitchen stove, minimal equipment, once or twice a year. That was the plan anyway. I also said I'd probably never spend the money getting into kegging. Then I started looking at the idea of having all stainless steel fermenting vessels, using co2 to push beer from one to another in a closed system, and being able to force carbonate certain beers. I liked those ideas so I bought a used corny keg to use as a secondary.

Then I started looking at co2 tanks...

Then regulators...

Then picnic taps...

Then more kegs... new kegs...

Kegerators...

Keezers...

Building a barn out back...

A tap room...

Maybe a pool table...

A few tables...

A bar...

Some curtains...

 

[PADave]

Good information. Looks like you're off to an awesome start. I agree with the guy who commented on your clamp collection too. Woodworking is my other hobby.

The clamps that everyone likes are my grandfathers, lots more around the shop. Guess that's what 40+ years of woodworking gets you.

 

[Jako]

I resisted as long as I could and have finally decided to venture into the world of kegging. I bought my first corny keg last week to use as a secondary fermentation vessel on a festbier I just brewed. That opened the flood gates and caused me to stop fighting it and coming up with excuses for not kegging - and just start kegging. So for the past week I've been surfing the interweb reading whatever I can find to help me make (hopefully) informed decisions. I hate spending money on something and finding out afterwards that I should have bought something else instead. So I was hoping to get these 4 questions answered real quick, just to hopefully cut down on the number of trails I have to follow while trying to educate myself on this newest aspect of my obsession.

1. I thought it was as simple as ball lock vs pin lock. But then there’s Cornelius Spartan, Challenger V Challenger VI, John Wood… are there any pros or cons to these brands?

2. On the ball lock disconnects I noticed some come with a barb on them where you just attach the hose and others come threaded for a swivel connection. The difference seems self-explanatory, I was just wondering if one method is commonly preferred over the other?

3. When I looked at hoses I noticed (again) a wide variety of sizes and materials; clear, red, black, blue . . . So (again) I was wondering - is there a certain size and/or material that most people agree is best?

4. What should I look for in a regulator?

something i am looking into now posting so i can look back later, thanks MR green hop face man.