Beer transplant

[fbaillargeon]

So I brewed two ales yesterday, one with S-04 and one with Wyeast Scotch Ale 1728.

However the pack did not swell at all, I figured they do that sometimes.

24 hours after I took a gravity reading still at the OG. SO I guess I just have bad yeast this time around.

For science (and because I couldn't go to the LHBS today as it is closed) I just used 500 ml of my fermenting beer as a yeast source.

Anyone ever had to go that route?

 

[prandlesc]

Wait, wait, wait! A 24 hour measurement is almost useless - or maybe completely useless. The yeast haven't had time to do much, if anything at all. How long did you wait for swelling after you smacked it? And what was the date on the pack? Was it sill fresh and have you kept it refrigerated since purchase?

And what do you mean you used 500ml of beer as a yeast source? Did you add 500ml of beer to a wort you brewed? And as what yeast source?

 

[WoodlandBrew]

Adding actively fermenting beer is a viable method of inoculating wort. On my blog and in my book there is more information. It's a German technique known as "Drauflassen"

http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/12/no-more-wasteful-yeast-starters.html

 

[fbaillargeon]

Wait, wait, wait! A 24 hour measurement is almost useless - or maybe completely useless. The yeast haven't had time to do much, if anything at all. How long did you wait for swelling after you smacked it? And what was the date on the pack? Was it sill fresh and have you kept it refrigerated since purchase?

And what do you mean you used 500ml of beer as a yeast source? Did you add 500ml of beer to a wort you brewed? And as what yeast source?

Basically I made two ales, a Strong Bitter and my spicy scotch ale. The bitter used a dry yeast.

I waited for 48 hours for the smack pack to swell too. It was refrigerated the whole way.

The Scotch ale did not even move gravity wise, while my Bitter was already crazy going, so I used 500 ml from the "healthy" one I guess to save it before it got contaminated.

 

[prandlesc]

Adding actively fermenting beer is a viable method of inoculating wort. On my blog and in my book there is more information. It's a German technique known as "Drauflassen"

http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/12/no-more-wasteful-yeast-starters.html

I'm sure this is a great opportunity to pitch your book, but are you really saying that adding .5 liter of fermenting beer as a yeast source is an acceptable way to ferment a 19L batch or wort?

 

[prandlesc]

Basically I made two ales, a Strong Bitter and my spicy scotch ale. The bitter used a dry yeast.

I waited for 48 hours for the smack pack to swell too. It was refrigerated the whole way.

The Scotch ale did not even move gravity wise, while my Bitter was already crazy going, so I used 500 ml from the "healthy" one I guess to save it before it got contaminated.

Here may be part of the issue. When you use a smack pack, you really need to read the instructions. It says something to the effect of smack and let sit at room temperature for at least 3 hours until it swells. Leaving it in the refrigerator temperatures stops yeast cell growth. So essentially in this case, smacking the pack had no effect. You should expect a 24-48 hour delay in any yeast activity. If you don't see anything by the 4th day, you may have a concern. Right now, my guess is that the yeast is just gaining strength, and will be active in a couple of days.

And now if I read this correctly, you added the wort with the S-04 to your wort with the Wyeast 1728. When the spicy Scotch ale doesn't turn out with the flavor you wanted it, don't give up - it shouldn't with the introduction of an off style yeast. Adding the S-04 will change the flavor of the ale.

You will really need to develop some patience, as well as get rid of the fear of wild infection. If you have stellar sanitary practices and keep things covered, you won't likely run into a lot of infection issues. Cleanliness and sanitation are the overcomers of other questionable practices.

 

[fbaillargeon]

Yeah sorry that was unclear, once I smacked it, it was room temp for 48 hours without swelling.

 

[prandlesc]

Yeah sorry that was unclear, once I smacked it, it was room temp for 48 hours without swelling.

That' not a good sign. You likely got a bad yeast pack. Bummer!

 

[fbaillargeon]

That happens I guess, I should have kept a few dry yeast packs on hand. We used to do this ale with LondonAle 1028 in the first iterations, so I guess that S-04 would have been a decent sub in a pinch.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

I'm sure this is a great opportunity to pitch your book, but are you really saying that adding .5 liter of fermenting beer as a yeast source is an acceptable way to ferment a 19L batch or wort?

Like most homebrewers I'm just trying my best to be helpful. Ideally for drauflassen the beer should be at high krausen which will have about 200-300 billion cells per liter given a typical 1.060 (15°P) wort. Beer at 24 hours of fermentation will likely be 50-100 billion cells per liter. There is a nice graph on page 76 that shows this. Between the initial pitch that seems to be starting slow and the cells added from the other beer I suspect that the OP's beer will come out fine.

 

[midfielder5]

Best practice is to pitch liquid yeast to a starter (WY smack packs do not increase cell counts, it just gives them some nutrients to wake up). This will be a viability check as well as increase cell counts so you don't underpitch. check out mrmalty.com
Dry yeast have a lot more numbers so you don't need a starter.
cheers and good luck- hope it works out! let us know.