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Beer tax proposed to curtail teen drinking
- Thread starter RedOctober
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk:
As they say on Fark: FAIL How does raising a tax on something prevent people who are using it illegally from continuing to use? Illegal substances are already priced above the open market and an additional tax on the channel is only a money grab.
This can only lead to ... more homebrewing!
This can only lead to ... more homebrewing!
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RedOctober
Well-Known Member
GOV'S TAX & SPEND SHOCKER
http://www.nypost.com/sev..._spend_shocker_144629.htm
ADDS 137 HIKES WHILE INCREASING BUDGET TO $121B
By BRENDAN SCOTT Post Corespondent
Last updated: 4:02 am
December 17, 2008
Posted: 4:01 am
December 17, 2008
ALBANY - Gov. Paterson yesterday socked New Yorkers with a mind-boggling 137 proposed new and hiked taxes on everything from beer to cab rides to iTunes downloads and movie tickets.
The doomsday, $121.1 billion plan represents the biggest tax hike in state history and slashes services across the board - while still increasing spending by $1.4 billion.
The Draconian plan calls for:
* An "iTunes tax" of 4 percent on videos, music or pictures downloaded from the Internet.
* A 4 percent tax on taxi, limo and bus rides. That means a $10 cab ride would cost 40 cents more.
* A 4 percent entertainment tax on tickets to movies, concerts and sporting events. That would add nearly 50 cents to a $12 movie ticket or $1.80 to the cheapest $44.50 seat at a Knicks game.
* The tax on beer increases 24 cents per gallon, or more than double the current rate, which means about 30 cents a case.
* An 18 percent tax on nondiet soft drinks, which aims to reduce child obesity. A $1.50 can of Pepsi would then cost at least 25 cents more.
* A 4 percent tax on cable TV and satellite services, raising a $100 bill by $4.
* Hiking the cost of "personal" services - including haircuts, manicures, pedicures, massages and gym memberships - by 4 percent.
* A 4 percent sales tax on clothing and shoes under $500, except for two weeks out of the year.
* Elimination of the law that caps the state sales tax on gasoline at 8 cents per gallon.
* Boosting the average vehicle registration fee for drivers by $11, from $44 to $55. Fees for new or renewed licenses also would increase 25 percent, or increase from $50 to about $62 to renew a license over eight years.
In addition, all drivers would have to get new, "reflectorized" license plates at a fee of $25 each.
The plan also calls for the state to allow wine to be sold in grocery stores.
It would introduce video slot machines at Belmont Park.
New York could also join other states in their lottery games.
State officials estimate the plan would raise $4.6 billion annually - or the most in "revenue actions" in state history.
On the flip side, it calls for cuts of $9.5 billion, including radical reductions to hospital and school subsidies and the elimination of more than $1 billion in aid that City Hall hoped would help it weather the worst economic downturn in at least a generation.
Despite all the taxes and cuts, spending still would increase by 1.1 percent over last year's $119.7 billion budget.
In delivering his budget to lawmakers, the governor said Albany's overspending - not Wall Street's downturn - was to blame for the $15.4 billion budget gap he promised to close.
"Unfortunately, we have lived beyond our means," the Democratic governor said. "We have to recognize that we've made too many promises and unfortunately asked for too few sacrifices. We are going to have to change our culture as we know it."
His plan immediately came under fire from both the left and the right.
"The pain in this budget seems to be strictly for the middle class," said Sen. Martin Golden (R-Brooklyn). "You name it, [Paterson] taxes it. If anybody's contemplating leaving the state of New York, this should push them over the top."
Paterson laid out dramatic cuts to education and health care, which together make up more than half of the state budget. Powerful lobby groups for both sectors quickly lined up to fight the proposal in the Legislature.
"These are staggering cuts that will shatter New York's health-care infrastructure," said SEIU 1199 President George Gresham and Greater New York Hospital Association President Kenneth E. Raske in a joint statement.
Billy Easton, who heads the Alliance for Quality Education, added, "The governor has shifted the unbearable burden of closing the budget gap onto the shoulders of school children while sparing the wealthiest New Yorkers."
Additional reporting by David Seifman
http://www.nypost.com/sev..._spend_shocker_144629.htm
ADDS 137 HIKES WHILE INCREASING BUDGET TO $121B
By BRENDAN SCOTT Post Corespondent
Last updated: 4:02 am
December 17, 2008
Posted: 4:01 am
December 17, 2008
ALBANY - Gov. Paterson yesterday socked New Yorkers with a mind-boggling 137 proposed new and hiked taxes on everything from beer to cab rides to iTunes downloads and movie tickets.
The doomsday, $121.1 billion plan represents the biggest tax hike in state history and slashes services across the board - while still increasing spending by $1.4 billion.
The Draconian plan calls for:
* An "iTunes tax" of 4 percent on videos, music or pictures downloaded from the Internet.
* A 4 percent tax on taxi, limo and bus rides. That means a $10 cab ride would cost 40 cents more.
* A 4 percent entertainment tax on tickets to movies, concerts and sporting events. That would add nearly 50 cents to a $12 movie ticket or $1.80 to the cheapest $44.50 seat at a Knicks game.
* The tax on beer increases 24 cents per gallon, or more than double the current rate, which means about 30 cents a case.
* An 18 percent tax on nondiet soft drinks, which aims to reduce child obesity. A $1.50 can of Pepsi would then cost at least 25 cents more.
* A 4 percent tax on cable TV and satellite services, raising a $100 bill by $4.
* Hiking the cost of "personal" services - including haircuts, manicures, pedicures, massages and gym memberships - by 4 percent.
* A 4 percent sales tax on clothing and shoes under $500, except for two weeks out of the year.
* Elimination of the law that caps the state sales tax on gasoline at 8 cents per gallon.
* Boosting the average vehicle registration fee for drivers by $11, from $44 to $55. Fees for new or renewed licenses also would increase 25 percent, or increase from $50 to about $62 to renew a license over eight years.
In addition, all drivers would have to get new, "reflectorized" license plates at a fee of $25 each.
The plan also calls for the state to allow wine to be sold in grocery stores.
It would introduce video slot machines at Belmont Park.
New York could also join other states in their lottery games.
State officials estimate the plan would raise $4.6 billion annually - or the most in "revenue actions" in state history.
On the flip side, it calls for cuts of $9.5 billion, including radical reductions to hospital and school subsidies and the elimination of more than $1 billion in aid that City Hall hoped would help it weather the worst economic downturn in at least a generation.
Despite all the taxes and cuts, spending still would increase by 1.1 percent over last year's $119.7 billion budget.
In delivering his budget to lawmakers, the governor said Albany's overspending - not Wall Street's downturn - was to blame for the $15.4 billion budget gap he promised to close.
"Unfortunately, we have lived beyond our means," the Democratic governor said. "We have to recognize that we've made too many promises and unfortunately asked for too few sacrifices. We are going to have to change our culture as we know it."
His plan immediately came under fire from both the left and the right.
"The pain in this budget seems to be strictly for the middle class," said Sen. Martin Golden (R-Brooklyn). "You name it, [Paterson] taxes it. If anybody's contemplating leaving the state of New York, this should push them over the top."
Paterson laid out dramatic cuts to education and health care, which together make up more than half of the state budget. Powerful lobby groups for both sectors quickly lined up to fight the proposal in the Legislature.
"These are staggering cuts that will shatter New York's health-care infrastructure," said SEIU 1199 President George Gresham and Greater New York Hospital Association President Kenneth E. Raske in a joint statement.
Billy Easton, who heads the Alliance for Quality Education, added, "The governor has shifted the unbearable burden of closing the budget gap onto the shoulders of school children while sparing the wealthiest New Yorkers."
Additional reporting by David Seifman
remilard
Well-Known Member
Interestingly the typical argument against sin tax increases is that they are a poor method of raising revenue since they result in decreased consumption and no net tax increase. You guys seem to think they opposite, that they don't affect consumption at all and are wildly successful fund raising tactics.
I think reality would disagree.
When you tax something you invariably get less of it. I would much rather see an alcohol tax (or any consumption tax) than a tax on work, investing or saving.
I think reality would disagree.
When you tax something you invariably get less of it. I would much rather see an alcohol tax (or any consumption tax) than a tax on work, investing or saving.
EdWort
Well-Known Member
While they do affect consumption, they also affect WHERE they buy them. Punitive and arbitrary taxes drive people to purchase from the black market or in neighboring states.
It's the neighboring states that will enjoy a spike in tax revenue.
TroubleBrewing
Active Member
They did the same thing here in Australia, except on "alcopops", basically premixed spirit drinks. The whole way through, it was "no totally, it's to stop teenage binge drinking, really! are you saying you support teens getting drunk?". They're pocketing $3 billion a year from it...
Don't let them do it to you. Get political on their asses, make enough of a noise and they'll know it won't fly. And then they'll try and think of something else they can tax...
Don't let them do it to you. Get political on their asses, make enough of a noise and they'll know it won't fly. And then they'll try and think of something else they can tax...
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
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RedOctober
Well-Known Member
Daily News Article:
NY gov proposes tax on drinks, downloaded music
29 mins ago
ALBANY, N.Y. - Gov. David Paterson's first state budget threatens to affect just about every New Yorker. Even those online.
Paterson proposed Tuesday a 2009-10 budget that would increase spending by 1.1 percent, or $1.3 billion, to create a $121.1 billion spending plan.
Much of the growth is revenue from 88 new or higher fees and will hit New Yorkers in many areas, from downloading music to sipping drinks to fishing.
One of the proposed hikes is a so-called "iPod tax," which would tax the sale of downloaded music and other "digitally delivered entertainment services" by 4 percent.
There also would be higher taxes on gas, taxi rides, cable and satellite TV service, cigars, beer, movie and sports tickets, and health spa visits, to name a few items.
Paterson seems to be fighting both obesity and budget deficits with a proposal for an 18 percent tax on soda and other sugary drinks containing less than 70 percent real fruit juice.
"People don't really realize the amount of calories they're ingesting through liquids," said Joe Baker acting deputy secretary for Health and Human Services to the governor. "They say, 'Oh, it's just a drink.'"
The idea is to discourage consumption of high-caloric beverages - health officials estimate a 5 percent drop - and to raise $404 million in fiscal year 2009-2010 toward the state's multibillion dollar budget gap. Paterson said the proposal would raise $539 million in 2010-2011.
The American Beverage Association opposes the tax, saying it would most harm the middle class. The group also argued that it doesn't make sense to single out a single food product as the cause for obesity.
"There is no science or logic that justifies it," the association's statement said. "Rather, we need to focus on promoting balanced eating habits and more physical activity. Until we get our kids exercising more the scales will be tipped against our next generation."
According to state officials, almost one in four New Yorkers under age 18 are obese, and at higher risk for dangerous, expensive illnesses like diabetes and heart disease.
The famous Minuteman statue stands at the ready in the predawn hours in Lexington.
NY gov proposes tax on drinks, downloaded music
29 mins ago
ALBANY, N.Y. - Gov. David Paterson's first state budget threatens to affect just about every New Yorker. Even those online.
Paterson proposed Tuesday a 2009-10 budget that would increase spending by 1.1 percent, or $1.3 billion, to create a $121.1 billion spending plan.
Much of the growth is revenue from 88 new or higher fees and will hit New Yorkers in many areas, from downloading music to sipping drinks to fishing.
One of the proposed hikes is a so-called "iPod tax," which would tax the sale of downloaded music and other "digitally delivered entertainment services" by 4 percent.
There also would be higher taxes on gas, taxi rides, cable and satellite TV service, cigars, beer, movie and sports tickets, and health spa visits, to name a few items.
Paterson seems to be fighting both obesity and budget deficits with a proposal for an 18 percent tax on soda and other sugary drinks containing less than 70 percent real fruit juice.
"People don't really realize the amount of calories they're ingesting through liquids," said Joe Baker acting deputy secretary for Health and Human Services to the governor. "They say, 'Oh, it's just a drink.'"
The idea is to discourage consumption of high-caloric beverages - health officials estimate a 5 percent drop - and to raise $404 million in fiscal year 2009-2010 toward the state's multibillion dollar budget gap. Paterson said the proposal would raise $539 million in 2010-2011.
The American Beverage Association opposes the tax, saying it would most harm the middle class. The group also argued that it doesn't make sense to single out a single food product as the cause for obesity.
"There is no science or logic that justifies it," the association's statement said. "Rather, we need to focus on promoting balanced eating habits and more physical activity. Until we get our kids exercising more the scales will be tipped against our next generation."
According to state officials, almost one in four New Yorkers under age 18 are obese, and at higher risk for dangerous, expensive illnesses like diabetes and heart disease.
The famous Minuteman statue stands at the ready in the predawn hours in Lexington.
I know this isn't beer related but...
How are i-tune taxes to be enforced? I've never purchased any audio/video download so I don't know the proceedures of download purchases. But I just question how a state can enforce such a tax? Normally sales tax is only enforced on online purchases if the online store has a physical presence in the state. Does some i-tunes division have a brick and mortar store in NY? Or perhaps some sort of apple related store is counting as the physical presence? Are they then just adding the 4% i-tunes download tax there? What about other mp3 downloads? I assume they would be taxed as well. Certainly not every mp3 download site has a presence in NY. How will the tax be enforced for them? Wouldn't people just be driven to those other sites?
And the tax on non-diet pop... Thats just so stupid given the huge amount of research that says that diet drink consumers tend to consume more calories elsewhere. Not to mention the questionable ingredients replacing the sugars in those drinks. Its just messed up.
Ultimately I'm just glad I homebrew. As I add more fermentors and bottles I think I will be able to eliminate most, if not all, purchases of store bought beer. Might even make my own soda too some day.
How are i-tune taxes to be enforced? I've never purchased any audio/video download so I don't know the proceedures of download purchases. But I just question how a state can enforce such a tax? Normally sales tax is only enforced on online purchases if the online store has a physical presence in the state. Does some i-tunes division have a brick and mortar store in NY? Or perhaps some sort of apple related store is counting as the physical presence? Are they then just adding the 4% i-tunes download tax there? What about other mp3 downloads? I assume they would be taxed as well. Certainly not every mp3 download site has a presence in NY. How will the tax be enforced for them? Wouldn't people just be driven to those other sites?
And the tax on non-diet pop... Thats just so stupid given the huge amount of research that says that diet drink consumers tend to consume more calories elsewhere. Not to mention the questionable ingredients replacing the sugars in those drinks. Its just messed up.
Ultimately I'm just glad I homebrew. As I add more fermentors and bottles I think I will be able to eliminate most, if not all, purchases of store bought beer. Might even make my own soda too some day.
Moonpile
Well-Known Member
National Teach a NY Kid to Brew Day.
Just kidding, of course.
Just kidding, of course.
Pelikan
Well-Known Member
Eves: If you use a credit card, you have to put your billing address. If you live in NY, iTunes (or other such services) will add the tax.
remilard: I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but do you have anything to back that up (I ask not as a wise-guy, but because I'd be curious to read it)? I agree with EdWort, in the sense that a savvy user of whatever substance (be it softdrinks or crack), will buy them wherever the price is best. So on the books it might appear that these taxes curb use, but in practice it means that the user is sourcing from beyond the book's reach (if that makes sense).
remilard: I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but do you have anything to back that up (I ask not as a wise-guy, but because I'd be curious to read it)? I agree with EdWort, in the sense that a savvy user of whatever substance (be it softdrinks or crack), will buy them wherever the price is best. So on the books it might appear that these taxes curb use, but in practice it means that the user is sourcing from beyond the book's reach (if that makes sense).
Seems like gift cards might be a way of by-passing that. Do they take pay pal? Just seems like there would be ways to avoid the tax if one chose to. Plus there is that whole thing about how online merchants are generally not too keen on the notion of paying to states. Thats why sales tax is only applied to online purchases when the store has a physical presence in the state.
tuoply
Active Member
I hate NY
Property, school, income and other taxes are high enough already. Many of the upstate communities are shrinking in business and people. Raising taxes and increasing spending is just another stick in the eye and means to forcing more folks out of the state. If it weren't for family in the area, I'd be moving elsewhere.
Property, school, income and other taxes are high enough already. Many of the upstate communities are shrinking in business and people. Raising taxes and increasing spending is just another stick in the eye and means to forcing more folks out of the state. If it weren't for family in the area, I'd be moving elsewhere.
Nimrod1193
Active Member
The great thing (at least in my state) is that the beer kits aren't taxed at all! They are considered a food item.
springer
Well-Known Member
this is all based on the assumption that the financial sector will lose another 250k in jobs in NY the average wage for a broker in the exchange is 350k so they do pay a ****load of tax. And the ripple effect will be much greater a lot of restaurants are already laying off people and starting to shut down around wall street.
Now if and when the economy does turn around think any of this will be repealed ? Just like the 5 cent bottle return now I believe every community has to recycle with their garbage pickup. And now I still need to return the beer and soda bottles to the store. Its all on the hope that the bottle will be tossed never returned and then the state gets to keep the 5 cents.
Now if and when the economy does turn around think any of this will be repealed ? Just like the 5 cent bottle return now I believe every community has to recycle with their garbage pickup. And now I still need to return the beer and soda bottles to the store. Its all on the hope that the bottle will be tossed never returned and then the state gets to keep the 5 cents.
EdWort
Well-Known Member
I guess trickle down economics does work, but they never admit it.
tuoply
Active Member
No, and that's the problem. They get their money, find things to spend it on, then when they have the opportunity for more money, they find more things to spend it on (and the people / entities receiving the money are just a guilty, they won't say, "we don't need that aid anymore"). Taxes are an upward spiral.
What's more, reducing state aid to schools only means that your local school and property taxes will be going up to compensate.
TwoHeadsBrewing
Well-Known Member
Move along, nothing to see here. Come on people, it's got to get worse before it gets better. Politicians of vaious types have been stealing money from citizens forEVER...and the only time it ever stops is when the people rise up and literally take their money back. By force and usually through military action. Short of that, I don't see how it will change. The few politicians who have their heads on straight about the rights of people and limitations of government are often regarded by the media (and even most citizens) as kooks, weirdos, and whackos. Like Dr. Paul and Kucinich...their rhetoric makes sense, but nobody wants to hear it.
Don't worry, this will all come to pass. It's the natural swing of the pendulum, going back to favor an opressive form of government. When we decide to fight with everything we've got, it will change. Until that movement mobilizes...I'll be brewing beer!
Sheesh, is it Friday yet?
Don't worry, this will all come to pass. It's the natural swing of the pendulum, going back to favor an opressive form of government. When we decide to fight with everything we've got, it will change. Until that movement mobilizes...I'll be brewing beer!
Sheesh, is it Friday yet?
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