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RedGuitar

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I know that there was a time when beer was brewed by monks. I've heard that Arthur Guinness started brewing his beer to provide an alternative to the whiskey and gin that was tearing Irish families apart. I think it's fascinating that for centuries there was a close connection between beer and religion, but in modern American culture, alcohol and faith are seen as polar opposites.

Any thoughts on this?

Are there still monks out there that brew beer?
 
actually there are plenty of faiths that embrace alcohol as part of their faith even if they act like they don't (ever been to a Catholic mass?). Alcohol has a VERY long history with religion going back to the dawn of man's awareness of fermentation.
 
theonetrueruss said:
actually there are plenty of faiths that embrace alcohol as part of their faith even if they act like they don't (ever been to a Catholic mass?). Alcohol has a VERY long history with religion going back to the dawn of man's awareness of fermentation.

My wife and I attend the local greek orthodox church every now and then (she is 2nd generation american, grandfather came over through Ellis island, actually found his name on the Ellis island website's ship manifest archive, kinda cool). Anyway, last time we attended, they had posters up announcing an upcoming Greek dance. At the bottom, in large letters: byob
 
I find it quite amusing that folks give up beer for Lent...Monks actually drank beer during Lent as a replacement for the meat they gave up!!!!

Heck there was even a style of beer brewed for lent.

"Doppelbock emerged in the late eighteenth century as a powerful lager variant of the old monastic strong beer, the monks' "liquid bread," which they traditionally brewed for the Lenten season. Living by the strict rules of their order, the monks were regularly required to castigate themselves by periodic bouts of fasting, when next to no solid food was allowed to pass their lips. The longest and most taxing of these periods of culinary abstinence was, of course, Lent, the 46 days between Ash Wednesday and Easter Sunday. Because the monks believed that liquids not only cleansed the body but also the soul, they would make plenty of liquid instead of solid bread from their grain, and then drink it in copious quantities...the more, the holier. Because the monks were society's role models in those religious times...as did the monks so did the common folk. The secular verson of the sacred strong bier was called a Bockbier.

The first Lenten strong beer was brewed by Paulaner monks at Cloister Neudeck ob der Au in Munich. The Paulaners had arrived in Munich from Italy in 1627. They began brewing beer for their own comsumption shortly thereafter—exactly when is not clear. Depending on which documents one can trust, the year was 1630, 1651 or 1670. The Paulaners felt, however, that such a strong brew with such delightful qualities might be just a bit too much of an indulgence for Lent. So they decided to ask the Holy Father in Rome for a special dispensation so that they could continued to brew it with a clear conscience. The Paulaners dispatched a cask of Lenten beer to Rome for the pope to try and to pass judgment. During its transport across the Alps and along the burning sun of Italy, unfortunately—or fortunately—the cask tossed and turned, and heated for several weeks—a classic condition for causing beer to turn sour and undrinkable. So when the Holy Father tasted the much-praised stuff from Munich, he found it (appropriately) disgusting. His decision: Because the brew was so vile, it was probably beneficial for the souls of the Munich monks to make and drink as much of it as they could. Therefore, he willingly gave the brewing of this new, allegedly rotten, beer style his blessing. Little did he know..."

From http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/Doppelbock.html

And don't forget, what was Jesus' first miracle? ;)

(FYI- we have to tread lightly here, lest this thread end up closed or move to the debate forum- where some of us refuse to go....Let's try to keep it about the history and contemporary spiritual uses of alcohol and not a religious debate.)
 
actually there are plenty of faiths that embrace alcohol as part of their faith even if they act like they don't (ever been to a Catholic mass?). Alcohol has a VERY long history with religion going back to the dawn of man's awareness of fermentation.

I can't remember all my Christian history from Seminary, but I think it was the Anabaptists that were the first denomination to eschew alcohol....

There were some Jewish sects that didn't drink. I can't remember which but was it the Zealot's (simon) or the sicarii (what we call Iscariots {Judas}) were anti alcohol.

But yeah there is a HUUUUGEEE history of Spirituality and alcohol, going back to the first recorded beer recipe- The Hymn to the Goddess Ninkasi.
 
This is cool...

In the history of Christianity, alcoholic prohibition is a relatively new idea. In fact, alcohol was a normal part of life. In Colonial America, the Puritans expected Christians to drink (Hearn, 1943). In the 1700s, a Baptist minister created the formula for bourbon whiskey (Hailey, 1992). During the 1800s, many Southern ministers operated stills, and sold alcohol (Hearn, 1943). Parishioners who owned stills would tithe their alcohol; and preachers' salaries often included whiskey. All this began to change, however, as the Temperance movement took shape (Hailey, 1992).

The idea that alcohol was dangerous was not new, though. In 600 B.C. Pathagoras noted, "drunkenness is an expression identical with ruin." In 44 B.C., Cicero wrote, "a sensual and intemperate youth hands over a worn-out body to old age," when he drinks to excess. Centuries later, Muhammed declared, "there is a devil in every berry of the grape" (Hearn, 1943). In fact, Islam has a total prohibition of alcohol, proclaiming drinking a sin (Parshall, 1989). Chaucer wrote in A.D. 1380, "character and shame depart when wine comes in." Clearly, for thousands of years, men have known of the dangers of alcohol. Knowledge about the dangers of alcohol stopped few from drinking, however. Jesus not only drank, his first miracle was turning water to wine; and he used wine as a symbol of the salvation through his blood (Hearn, 1943; Jn 2; Lk 22:20).

For Southern Baptists, too, alcohol was a part of life. That is until the Temperance movement began to infiltrate the religious denominations in America. Finally, in 1896, the Southern Baptist Convention officially denounced alcohol and asked that churches excommunicate anyone who sold or drank alcohol. For the first time in Southern Baptist history, drinking was considered immoral. The success of this measure is debatable. A Southern Baptist study has shown that in the 1990s, 46 percent of members drink alcohol (Hailey, 1992).

Investigation shows that although people knew of the danger in alcohol, throughout history, Christian prohibition is a new, and rather American, phenomenon. The decisions of churches to abstain came out of the American Temperance movement. David Hailey, though supporting the SBC's resolution, admits that biblical support for abstinence was an after-thought. Christians had decided, for social reasons, that alcohol was wrong. Only then, did they turn to the Bible to find support (Hailey, 1992).

(I kinda like that first paragrah....paid in hooch, eh? ;))

From ALCOHOLIC PROHIBITION IN SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCHES AND ITS IMPLICATION ON THE PRIESTHOOD OF BELIEVERS
 
Several monestaries and convents in Germany still brew. And, they still brew doppelbock for the Starkbierfest during lent. My favorite is Kloster Andechs in Munich.
 
We had a great sermon a few weeks ago in our series on First Corinthians. It boiled down to "don't squabble over little stuff like circumcision or meat sacrificed to idols. We have a WORLD to save from sin!!"

Our pastor was listing the things the Corinthians were dealing with WITHIN the church like sexual immorality, idol worship and fractured leadership. He said something like, "If we told a first-century Corinthian one of our big struggles was 'alcohol', they would be like "So what? We have people being put to death over here. Besides, the water is so bad, we HAVE To drink wine." :D

I am working to develop a sort of homebrewing co-op/Men's Bible study group. We'll get together to brew beer and invite non-believers and use the miracle of beer as an object lesson and show the un-churched that the churched can be normal dudes as well. It's not publicly endorsed by the church yet, but they're telling me they think it's a cool idea.

I love my church.
 
This is all really interesting to me. My church is okay with drinking, but it's not something we discuss much. I did give my pastor a 6 pack of homebrew for Christmas...

After college I served as a missionary in Bolivia for a year and a half, and one of our rules on the mission field was no drinking, period. The pastor of the church I attended down there was British. He didn't understand why we Americans weren't allowed to drink. It seems to me it's more of an American thing than a Christian thing.

So how do you define the "miracle of beer"? What sort of spiritual lessons do y'all take from the art of brewing?
 
This ones different, its for a cancer cause. Pouring support, one pint at a time.

Now on tap around Seattle – Beer Church Pale Ale

"The establishments listed below not only agreed to pour the beer but also pledged to donate a portion of the proceeds from the sale of Beer Church Pale Ale to Pints for Prostates. This was a requirement we placed on any bar wanting to serve the beer. In these fiscally challenging times, we were sincerely touched by how eagerly people pledged their support. We were also touched by the outpouring of support and the sheer number of people who showed up at last Friday night’s release party at the West 5, where our crew drank 141 pints in record time."

http://blog.seattlepi.com/washingto...on-tap-around-seattle-–-beer-church-pale-ale/
 
So how do you define the "miracle of beer"? What sort of spiritual lessons do y'all take from the art of brewing?

Well, the beer really isn't the focus. But you have to sit back and be amazed by the bounty and blessing God has given us in beer. All the work we put into it and, if it weren't for the yeast, would be for nothing. Without the yeast, which I believe God created very specifically and purposefully, we wouldn't be able to enjoy beer.

But, like I said, it's not the focus. It's a context. I have a lot of Christian friends who want to learn to brew and we have a lot of unchurched friends who we want to evangelize to. So why not do it in a homebrewing context. Plus, a homebrewing project requires several "meetings" over the course of the batch.
 
I think that the problem lies in American's view of beer more than anything to do with religion. Beer and alcohol here is viewed more from the eyes of binge drinking and getting hammered on the weekends (or weekdays..). Where as for example in Italy, it is not uncommon for the children to have a little wine with dinner as well. In high school we had a transfer student from Italy and he was telling us about this and all the 'bros' were like 'Oh man so were you like hammered all the time?' (typical American ignorance of other cultures...) Obviously he wasn't and he explained the culture is different and the goal of drinking is to not get so drunk you black out.

I love the fact that the trappists have been around for so long and are still putting out amazing beer. Power to them! I really hope to someday score a Westvleteren 12.

Anything is fine in moderation... anything... ;)
 
I think people have an over romanticized view of 'beer brewing monks' nowadays. Most trappist breweries are run by lay members, with one monk or so overseeing production.
 
Turning water into beer! :mug: :D

Which we do all the time...see how powerful we are.

Remember what he said. “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do..." (He meant go make a Barleywine.)

So in the words of James Spenser of Basic Brewing fame;

floccshirt_MED.jpg
 
The Catholic church is not against beer or alcohol. The church believes it should just be kept in moderation and not imbibe in excess (gluttony).
 
A couple of tidbits that popped up on my facebook today.

In ancient Babylon, women brewers also assumed the role of temple priestesses. The goddess Siris was the patron of beer.

In 1116 BC, Chinese imperial edict stated that heaven required people to drink beer.
 
No love for us Pastafarians out there? As plagiarized from Wikipedia: "The Pastafarian belief of Heaven contains a beer volcano and a stripper factory. The Pastafarian Hell is similar, except that the beer is stale and the strippers have sexually transmitted diseases."
 
No love for us Pastafarians out there? As plagiarized from Wikipedia: "The Pastafarian belief of Heaven contains a beer volcano and a stripper factory. The Pastafarian Hell is similar, except that the beer is stale and the strippers have sexually transmitted diseases."

Sadly not everybody thinks so......

 
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No love for us Pastafarians out there? As plagiarized from Wikipedia: "The Pastafarian belief of Heaven contains a beer volcano and a stripper factory. The Pastafarian Hell is similar, except that the beer is stale and the strippers have sexually transmitted diseases."

R'Amen
 
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