Beer going bad during the summer

[incredityler]

I work at a brew on premise and we brew maybe 25 beers a week during the slow season which happens to be summer. For some reason when the season changes to summer a lot more batches of beer go bad during fermentation, I've done some research and can not find anything on the topic besides already bottled beer going bad. I am just wondering is there any bacteria or yeast that comes up in the air only in summertime and why even when we don't change anything beers start to go bad more during this time?

 

[Allergic2hops]

I use fast racks (2) when I bottle. After I soak the bottles in Star San I let them drain in the fast rack and they stay upside down until I bottle. I have also read that wild yeast is airborne and this is my solution to that issue. I haven't had any go bad but I have noticed the taste degrade as I don't have enough room in my beer fridge for all the beer. The only way to stop them from conditioning is to put them in the fridge so maybe that is part of the problem. Just a thought.

 

[LKABrewer]

How are you controlling your fermentation temperature?

 

[incredityler]

Bottling is fine we use a counter pressure bottler, the issue is the beer going bad during fermentation.

We don't have any temperature control during summer the room is usually 70, 80 on the hottest days no higher though.

 

[poptarts]

that defiantly inst helping

 

[jotakah]

Bottling is fine we use a counter pressure bottler, the issue is the beer going bad during fermentation.

We don't have any temperature control during summer the room is usually 70, 80 on the hottest days no higher though.

That is your problem right there. Fermenting in the correct temperature zone is (my) priority numero uno for making good beer

 

[RmikeVT]

I know some people that won't brew in early spring, because the have a track record of wild yeast infections in March. There could be some wild yeast naturally occurring that 'bloom' in late spring infecting your batches. That is just a shot in the dark, though. '

But based on the info provided, you are fermenting too warm. Yeast, once they get active generate heat and fermentation temps are often 5-10 degrees above ambient air temps. So, your fermentation temps could be close to 75-85+, which is not optimal for must yeast strains and you are going to get very off tasting beer. If you beer is tasting really fruity, solventy, yeasty or just down right bad, temperatures could have a lot to do with this.

Most Ales are happy in the mid 60's for fermentation temps. So, if you are getting up into the 70s you are going to have problems even with the most tolerant of yeasts. Saison yeast is an exception, you can take those yeasts right up to 90.

 

[incredityler]

It doesn't fluctuate dramatically or anything like that. I was thinking it may have to do with temperature. The only problem with that is that there could be about 12 different strains fermenting at once

Right now it is staying at a pretty constant 70 but I still get maybe one bad beer a week

 

[poptarts]

plus pretty much all bacteria likes it hotter so if you wort is hotter this time of year it just gives it that much more of a chance getting infected. Maybe make sure you are sealing everything well and double up on your sanatization practices. But even then beer fermented in the high 70s unless its a Belgian isnt going to taste good, infected or not.

 

[catdaddy66]

Off flavors can result from warm temps during fermentation. I recently had a batch turn when my a/c went for 2-3 days. I believe (but certainly not positive) the higher temps cause diacetyl formation.

Please read all you can on temp control to understand its importance. My very next upgrade will be a fermentation chamber (fridge) with temp control'


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[incredityler]

I'm sorry I should have specified that none of the strains used are lager strains they are all ales

 

[Bobby_M]

That fermentation room should be held at 65F max. I also agree that warmer temps bring in more wild yeast but I'm going with the warmer temp allowing bacteria to make headway before your pitched yeast does.. I guess you should also look at your pitching rates.

 

[incredityler]

I think that everyone is right here. It's pretty rare still here maybe a total of ten batches a year go bad out of hundreds. One of the first things I personally would invest in is temperature control but unfortunately the decisions are not left up to me as I am only an employee haha.

 

[IslandLizard]

What kind of fermentors are you using? And how are they filled? What are your batch sizes?

In the summer there's a lot more wild yeast floating about. Is there more air circulating during the summer, or air conditioners? Most infection vectors are airborne.

 

[incredityler]

I never really thought about pitch rate but it's pretty low for the beers, I didn't do the math for exact pitch rate but we use 200 billion cells for 15 gallons and a lot of them are high gravity our most popular beer for customers to brew is a heady topper clone, although that one rarely goes bad.

 

[mrdauber64]

When you say that they go bad, what do you mean? Can you describe the off-flavors that you are getting? That might help determine if temp control is really your problem. Also, is there a specific strain of yeast or style of beer that goes bad most often?

 

[incredityler]

Batch size is 15 gallons the fermenters are 20 gallon barrels I'm not sure the specifics but the beer goes from kettle into a pump which pushes it throughout a plate heat exchange bringing the beer down to temp really fast and the beer goes into a food grade poly bag so unless the bag breaks the sanitizing of the fermenter is not usually a problem, the airlocks are one way valve rubber stoppers which I'm not a fan of. We do all types of beers besides lagers, Kolsch ale yeast is done for lager recipes.

 

[j1n]

I never really thought about pitch rate but it's pretty low for the beers, I didn't do the math for exact pitch rate but we use 200 billion cells for 15 gallons and a lot of them are high gravity our most popular beer for customers to brew is a heady topper clone, although that one rarely goes bad.

That prob cause the massive amount of hops hides some of the off flavors. That isn't enough yeast unless its a really low gravity beer. You are probably getting off flavors from under pitches plus the high temp.

For a place that makes that much beer, how is fermentation temp not a priority? just seems very odd.

 

[incredityler]

You're telling me haha, most of the beer coming out is pretty top notch in my opinion though. When one does go bad it's hard to describe the flavor, basically foot cheese is the best word for it. Some get a windex type taste as well. None of those beers go home with customers, all of the beers are tasted and usually the beers ferment out really well also. The temp control has always been something on my mind but like I said before I'm not one that makes decisions for the business, and for the most part everything goes pretty smoothly

 

[j1n]

Prob esters and phenols produced by the yeast at high temps and fusel alcohol also produced at high temps.


Like others have said. Fermentation temp (for me) is prob one of the most important things in brewing good beer.

 

[zachattack]

It's pretty crazy that you would charge customers to brew beer that's potentially underpitched and fermented way above the ideal range. If the room gets up to 80 the fermenting beer could easily be pushing 85+ degrees. No wonder it tastes like windex.

 

[incredityler]

80 is rare. But I don't disagree with you

 

[incredityler]

I got great answers from everything thank you guys. This is why I'm on here is for answers so when he asks me I can explain and leave it to higher powers to fix

 

[Ilan34]

Isn't foot cheese a desired flavor profile in some sour beers? Use it to your advantage!

 

[incredityler]

In sours yes, when a customer makes a milk stout or a clone for their favorite beer no haha. It's hard to make a customer upset with us though for the most part people love brewing with us and when something does go wrong they are usually fine with going home with an extra case of beer and waiting the extra time to bottle. It's just something I personally would like to avoid in the future because it makes me have to work harder

 

[LKABrewer]

Foot cheese usually comes from old stale hops. Always smell the hops before using them; if you smell foot throw them away.

 

[hunter_le five]

How does one open any sort of brewery, whether it be a BOP, nanobew, brewpub, etc, and NOT have a way to control fermentation temps??? That is one of the single most important aspects of brewing good beer!

I suspect that is probably the cause of your issues, or maybe poor sanitation practices.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I would be PISSED if I had attended your business and found out that you had NO fermentation chamber or temp control.

 

[incredityler]

And I would not blame you, which is why I'm trying to figure it out

 

[incredityler]

There are no poor sanitation processes so it definitely is the temp

 

[pdxal]

I agree with lack of temperature control is a big issue here. Massive underpitching has got to be part of the problem too.
Per Mr. Malty's yeast pitch calculator (love it or hate it) 15 gallons of a 1.048 OG beer needs 505 billion cells.
Unless these beers are infected, those two issues would be the first to tackle. If they're infected, the sanitation needs to be improved first, then the temp and pitch rate.

 

[Hello]

Hopefully you can tell the "powers that be" that they will drive business into the ground if they keep this up. They can be great in the winter but winter won't matter if they're screwing customers by ignoring basic brewing techniques in the warmer months.

 

[TimmyWit]

OP, where is this brewery? I would love to get in the brewery business myself and I figure if I could find a place where the customers are that forgiving, it would make my path a little easier .

Seriously, there's either a troll here or a really interesting story.

Is the owner incredibly wealthy? That's the only way I see this playing out. Some millionaire thought it would be fun to open a brewery but didn't have time to consider how to go about it. He/she was a friend of yours and was impressed with a few batches of homebrew you made so you got hired as the head brewer. If the story is anything like this, congrats! You are one of the luckiest people on the planet and I am jealous!

 

[cheezydemon3]

OP, where is this brewery? I would love to get in the brewery business myself and I figure if I could find a place where the customers are that forgiving, it would make my path a little easier .

Seriously, there's either a troll here or a really interesting story.

Is the owner incredibly wealthy? That's the only way I see this playing out. Some millionaire thought it would be fun to open a brewery but didn't have time to consider how to go about it. He/she was a friend of yours and was impressed with a few batches of homebrew you made so you got hired as the head brewer. If the story is anything like this, congrats! You are one of the luckiest people on the planet and I am jealous!

It is not a brewery.

 

[TimmyWit]

It is not a brewery.

Ah, sorry bout that. OP, even though you don't work at a brewery, I am still jealous that you work in a building where you brew beer for customers.

 

[podz]

Ah, sorry bout that. OP, even though you don't work at a brewery, I am still jealous that you work in a building where you brew beer for customers.

It's a "Brew On Premise" (BOP). People come there and pay to use the equipment to make their own beer.

Not a very good business model if they don't have temperature control.

 

[incredityler]

Ah, sorry bout that. OP, even though you don't work at a brewery, I am still jealous that you work in a building where you brew beer for customers.

I'm basically a waiter.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Lol.

incredityler would probably have done more research than the dopes he works for.

 

[incredityler]

I really have done a lot of research, and despite this thread ruining my credibility of having any beer knowledge i take this stuff seriously and I love brewing. I learned a lot from this thread and I've talked to the owner about fixing things

 

[TimmyWit]

You're doing fine incredityler. I completely misunderstood the situation and for that I apologize. Now that I know what's going on, I'm still jealous. You're still around brewing all day while I'm riding a desk. You have a cool job. Hopefully you can get in the owner's ear and get those ferm temps under control. Do you also have the unfortunate duty of informing the customer when their beer doesn't turn out?