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ridahog

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Do any of you know if a person can give away his home brew to a club like the Moose or Elks Lodge (California) where it will be consumed by members of the club. The club would ask for donations from the members for the beer, but all proceeds would go to a charity. Is this a violation of ABC laws or even health deparatment laws/regulations.

Any info would be appreciated.

Dave
 
While your heart is in the right place I would definitely ask all the proper authorities before attempting this.

I have no first had knowledge but my guess is you wouldn't be able to, usually homebrew is for personal consumption only so you're moving from there by bringing it into the club that likely has its own license.
Second ultimately you are exchanging homebrew for money though not compulsive or directly it's still an exchange. Perhaps Cali state laws have loopholes for charitable acts like this but really no one on here is going to know for sure.

Really I'd just call up the State regulators and ask them and if you do get an approval try to get something in writing or at a minimum the name and rank of the person who gave you the OK.
 
Have them over to your house for a party. Put a bowl near the beer saying 'Donations'.
 
Accepting any form of payment for homebrew is illegal. This includes:

Bartering
Donations
Swaps (barters)
Whatever

It is especially against the law to do any of this in an establishment who holds a liquor license.

*Disclaimer: This is the way it is in Michigan as far as I know. I am not an authority. You should contact your state officials for any official information. YMMV.
 
Accepting any form of payment for homebrew is illegal. This includes:

Bartering
Donations
Swaps (barters)
Whatever

It is especially against the law to do any of this in an establishment who holds a liquor license.

*Disclaimer: This is the way it is in Michigan as far as I know. I am not an authority. You should contact your state officials for any official information. YMMV.
Say that the donations are for your dog.
I understand that we have a sheetload of antiquated alcohol laws left over from Prohibition, and I realize the need to have some regulation and watch out for health concerns, but at the same time, we got to start acting like men instead of lemmings.
I guess this is a sore spot because I live in Georgia, which is probably #3 or 4 on the list of states with the craziest laws regarding beer and alcohol.
 
Say that the donations are for your dog.
I understand that we have a sheetload of antiquated alcohol laws left over from Prohibition, and I realize the need to have some regulation and watch out for health concerns, but at the same time, we got to start acting like men instead of lemmings.
I guess this is a sore spot because I live in Georgia, which is probably #3 or 4 on the list of states with the craziest laws regarding beer and alcohol.

Men follow the law. Children break the law.

At least that's how my father, a man, brought me up. ;)
 
Any form of EXCHANGE for homebrew is considered illegal under the 1978 repeal of the ban on homebrewing, H.R. 1337...unless of course you become licensed to do so, and pay taxes.

In fact Bartering of alcohol of any type is illegal, period, even for licensed retailers.

Trading or Bartering

The trading or bartering of alcoholic beverages for cash or in exchange for different alcoholic beverages by and between retail liquor dealers, in order that they may take advantage of special deals involving quantity discounts or free goods offered by wholesale liquor dealers, is not a bona fide loan of liquors described in Revenue Ruling 54-509 which outlines transactions constituting bona fide loans. Such trading or bartering constitutes sales for purpose of resale and engaging in this practice would subject the retail dealers to liability for special tax as wholesale liquor dealers and would necessitate the acquiring of basic permits as wholesale liquor dealers. This ruling relates only to the trading or bartering of merchandise between retailers after purchase thereof by one or more retailers individually, and not to the cooperative purchasing of alcoholic beverages by several retailers, dealt with in Revenue Ruling 56-204.

26 U.S.C. 5111; 27 CFR 194.28

And if you are planning to do so, I wouldn't be discussing it on the largest homebrewing site on the web......

Whenever a thread like this, or someone trying to make money off homebrew for whatever reason, charity or otherwise, all these "armchair lawyers," come up with all the ways they think could be "get arounds" the law. Sorry kids, you can hypothesize all you want, but do you notice ever any actually attorneys with knowledge of the law ever coming up with some of this stuff? No.

Whether we agree with the laws or not. You can't loophole your way through this. The laws are pretty specific in regards to homebrewing- any medium of exchange, be it money or barter involving homebrew is illegal.

Remember homebrewing wasn't re-legalized after the Volstead act was repealed in 1933, it wasn't legalized until 1978, and it took a lot of work in those 45 years to get it to happen....and despite it's federal legalization, it is STILL on a State by State basis.

Wasn't it legalized in Utah JUST this very year?

Do a little reading on the history of prohibition and the legalizing of homebrewing, and maybe you'll quit the idiotic hypothisizing about trying to get around the law, and realize what a fine razors edge this hobby sits on to many folks.

Some folks still think you can go blind drinking homebrew.
Other's can't distinguish what we're doing with making meth.

Hell even some cops look on what we're doing with suspicion.

Don't believe me? Check out this Cops episode if you haven't already....look at what "John Law" has to say about our little hobby. "The concotion he was making could be deadly..." :rolleyes:



Hell, if MADD gets ever gets their way the oldschool version of prohibition may be like a picnic, compared to what it would be like in modern times. You think they'd let us make anything? (HomeWine making was sort of legal during prohibition as long as you didn't sell)

Look what may be happening in Canada; DUI legislation may expand to allow random breathalyzer tests

No probable cause would be necessary to be forced to breath into a tube.

Quit thinking you can run around the law....if you really want to help, then try to change the laws....Write your congress people, better yet become a congressperson. But quit thinking you can scheme your way through this.

That's what doesn't help give us a good name.

Read this for some enlightenment...It was one of our members https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f19/ohio-university-homebrew-festival-shut-down-140105/#post1590903
 
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Just make a can that says charitable donation, and put it on the bar. People aren't required to donate money to the charity to get beer, but they can donate to charity while at the bar ;) The key is making it so people are not required to donate, and ensuring that your club, lodge, post, whatever is only made up of honest people.
 
A little off topic, but it's something I always wondered. If I plan to brew a batch of beer, and a friend of mine offers to pay for ingredients if I share some of the final product with them, is that illegal? I'm not making a profit, or if I do it would be a small profit. For example, my ingredients may cost $45 and my friend just slips me a $50. Any ideas as to the legality of that?
 
A little off topic, but it's something I always wondered. If I plan to brew a batch of beer, and a friend of mine offers to pay for ingredients if I share some of the final product with them, is that illegal? I'm not making a profit, or if I do it would be a small profit. For example, my ingredients may cost $45 and my friend just slips me a $50. Any ideas as to the legality of that?

That may depend on your local laws. In some areas, beer brewed under a particular roof is allowed only for the consuption of residents of that structure.

That said, I have a friend who assisted me in my equipment purchases. I give him a six-pack of every brew I do as a gift for his birthday (which amazingly happens to occur about two months after each brew day. The guy must be 150 by now)
 
Any form of EXCHANGE for homebrew is considered illegal under the 1978 repeal of the ban on homebrewing, H.R. 1337...unless of course you become licensed to do so, and pay taxes.

This statement is a little too broad. For example, in Illinois, not-for-profit organizations are allowed to accept home brew (or home made wines) for inclusion in charitable auctions. This is settled, our organization's attorney assures me.

But, your larger point about the mind-blowing ignorance of so many people about handmade beer and wine is on target, and we need to be careful to not validate that stupidity.
 
Again, state statutes vary. In Georgia, I believe, it is illegal in some places to be seen with an open container. If you are sitting on your porch, beer in hand, and can be seen from a public location (such as the street), you can be cited for open container. (got this info from a police officer on a Mustang Forum).

In some state(s) your homebrew cannot legally be taken off the property on which is was brewed.

So a friend helping only means that you go this help. Not that he is allowed to take any home with him. In Michigan, we are allotted 20 gallons of homebrew to gift per year. If my sources are accurate.
 
Wasn't it legalized in Utah JUST this very year?

Yes home brewing became legal in Utah this year. However there have been home brew stores in operation for a long time. It seems that you could own the equipment and ingredients, you were breaking the law when you pitched the yeast. I have never heard of anyone getting busted for brewing beer in Utah.
 
As you've probably figured based on all of the responses, the answer to your question is going to vary drastically from state to state and possibly even county to county. You really will have to check the laws specifically in your state. For instance, some homebrew shops, particularly where I live, can give away samples of beer and wine to customers. Some places will allow you to purchase a temporary liquor license that's good for a day or two. It's unfortunately not a simple answer.
 
Ok, so I'm not a lawyer, and I don't live in CA. But, I was surfing around the CA ABC website looking at licensing. They do sell special events licenses for single day sales of beer. I know that you are trying to give away beer and take donations at the door, but as far as the state of CA is concerned it would appear it is the same as selling. I see 2 obstacles to this for your club. First, you need to be an established organization or business. If you are giving away beer for donation in your case, it would help to be an established non-profit organization. Second, you are going to have to pay taxes, assuming you are not a non-profit entity. Basically, you have to fill out some forms that allow the state to collect sales tax from you. So, I'm not sure how that fits your situation, but if you meet the licensing requirements, it looks like you can get a license for as little as $25 per day of sales. I would highly recommend checking with the state ABC though.
 
As mentioned several times, it depends on your state laws.

Our brew club recently partnered with the local humane society and had an event called "Pints for Paws". It was a beer tasting event of homebrewed beer and was extremely well received. About $7500 in donations.
One of the first things our club and the charity did, was get in touch with the local ATF and other local authoritys. When it came down to it, these agencies helped us work around the technicalities.
The bottom line was that no patron was required to pay to sample the various beers. I am quite sure everyone made a donation though.
We now plan to do this event every year.
 
You are gifting the beer to the Elks Club, right? Since you are not charging the Elks for the beer I think you would be in the clear. Unless of course, there is a restriction on giving away homebrew.
 
Yes home brewing became legal in Utah this year. However there have been home brew stores in operation for a long time. It seems that you could own the equipment and ingredients, you were breaking the law when you pitched the yeast. I have never heard of anyone getting busted for brewing beer in Utah.

Actually it was legalized last year. http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2009/htmdoc/hbillhtm/HB0051.htm

But yes even though it was illegal the Beernut was on state street not far from the capital selling homebrew supplies for as long as i can ever remember.
 
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