Beer Cellar thread - real cellars, closet cellars, fridge cellars, freezer cellars, wine coolers

[cayenne1]

Its absolutely stunning. On a completely unrelated note, are you looking for roommates?

You willing to scoop a cat box for 4 cats?

 

[ExPimp]

You willing to scoop a cat box for 4 cats?

I love cats.

 

[matedog]

Finished my lambic (95% lambic) cellar a couple months ago. Holds around 600 bottles. Racks custom made to fit both 375 and 750s. I got wine cellar cooking unit from VinoTemp installed and the glass ijs UV resistant. The lights were only turned on for the picture i rarely turn it on.

 

[ASUBeer]

Finished my lambic (95% lambic) cellar a couple months ago. Holds around 600 bottles. Racks custom made to fit both 375 and 750s. I got wine cellar cooking unit from VinoTemp installed and the glass ijs UV resistant. The lights were only turned on for the picture i rarely turn it on.

Really well done. Id probably get drunk and just sit on the floor in there.

 

[wuntrikpony]

Who
...
Who are you?

it's steph curry

 

[matedog]

So I had a calamity yesterday. Something happened with my cooling unit in my fridge/"cellar" and it chilled the **** out of my beer to the point that one exploded and a number have frozen (but not exploded).

Any idea if the ones with ice/not exploded will be salvageable? The big one is my wedding LPG that we were hoping to keep for our 10th anniversary so that hurts. Any my last Cable Car. The shelfies are largely in tact of course.

 

[PepeSylvia1]

So I had a calamity yesterday. Something happened with my cooling unit in my fridge/"cellar" and it chilled the **** out of my beer to the point that one exploded and a number have frozen (but not exploded).

Any idea if the ones with ice/not exploded will be salvageable? The big one is my wedding LPG that we were hoping to keep for our 10th anniversary so that hurts. Any my last Cable Car. The shelfies are largely in tact of course.

That sucks I don't a have a ton of experience on the subject, but I have accidently frozen beer a few times. Once a 3f OG and I was not able to tell a difference. And a homebrew farmhouse saison, I had many non frozen bottles and they tasted exactly the same. I have froze some canned IPA's and I though the carbonation was a little off but never any thing major.

 

[matedog]

That sucks I don't a have a ton of experience on the subject, but I have accidently frozen beer a few times. Once a 3f OG and I was not able to tell a difference. And a homebrew farmhouse saison, I had many non frozen bottles and they tasted exactly the same. I have froze some canned IPA's and I though the carbonation was a little off but never any thing major.

I picked stupac2 ‘s scientific brain and he suggested that you might have issues with some of the yeast dying off which might lessen the long term aging possibilities but that it might not be an issue (correct me if this is wrong, Stu) beyond regular aging issues. Good to hear some anecdotal stories confirming non issues.

 

[SeaWatchman]

What date LPG?

 

[stupac2]

That sucks I don't a have a ton of experience on the subject, but I have accidently frozen beer a few times. Once a 3f OG and I was not able to tell a difference. And a homebrew farmhouse saison, I had many non frozen bottles and they tasted exactly the same. I have froze some canned IPA's and I though the carbonation was a little off but never any thing major.

Yeah if it was something that you opened somewhat quickly after the freeze I could see carb being an issue since it might not have gotten back into equilibrium, but I can't really think of anything that could be problematic with a frozen beer if you can keep it for several weeks (the exception is potential cell death, as matedog relayed). But I'm not a chemist so there could be something I'm missing. duketheredeemer, can you think of anything that would be screwed up with a frozen beer?

 

[buzzword]

Yeah if it was something that you opened somewhat quickly after the freeze I could see carb being an issue since it might not have gotten back into equilibrium, but I can't really think of anything that could be problematic with a frozen beer if you can keep it for several weeks (the exception is potential cell death, as matedog relayed). But I'm not a chemist so there could be something I'm missing. duketheredeemer, can you think of anything that would be screwed up with a frozen beer?

depends on if it was stored on its side

 

[duketheredeemer]

Yeah if it was something that you opened somewhat quickly after the freeze I could see carb being an issue since it might not have gotten back into equilibrium, but I can't really think of anything that could be problematic with a frozen beer if you can keep it for several weeks (the exception is potential cell death, as matedog relayed). But I'm not a chemist so there could be something I'm missing. duketheredeemer, can you think of anything that would be screwed up with a frozen beer?

Yeah, I think freezing can easily screw up the carbonation. You're going to force most of the CO2 out when it freezes, and increase the volume of the solid/liquid as it freezes, so there's a good chance that at least some of your CO2 will blow out from the cap/cork.

Other possible issues: It can denature proteins and cause them to fall out of solution, or at least weird up your mouthfeel. Other things might be driven out as well during freezing, increasing their concentrations in the remaining liquids until they fall out of solution and may not readily return once the beer melts.

As matedog said, some microflora survive freezing well, but some do not. If its a mixed fermentation beer there's a decent chance that some of your microflora will be considerably reduced in population compared to others.

I'm sure there are other potential effects I'm forgetting or just not aware of. Freezing of complex solutions like beer is really complicated.

 

[matedog]

What date LPG?

2013 sticker. Nothing particularly special about the vintage, just something that should be able to make 10 years.

 

[matedog]

Yeah, I think freezing can easily screw up the carbonation. You're going to force most of the CO2 out when it freezes, and increase the volume of the solid/liquid as it freezes, so there's a good chance that at least some of your CO2 will blow out from the cap/cork.

Other possible issues: It can denature proteins and cause them to fall out of solution, or at least weird up your mouthfeel. Other things might be driven out as well during freezing, increasing their concentrations in the remaining liquids until they fall out of solution and may not readily return once the beer melts.

As matedog said, some microflora survive freezing well, but some do not. If its a mixed fermentation beer there's a decent chance that some of your microflora will be considerably reduced in population compared to others.

I'm sure there are other potential effects I'm forgetting or just not aware of. Freezing of complex solutions like beer is really complicated.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll have to try some of the lesser bottles that froze soon to see how the CO2 and mouthfeel have been affected.

I'm assuming more ice=more ****** up? One of the Tilquins lost maybe 10% of the liquid which means not only did gas escape, but liquid did too.

 

[primebeer]

Very excited to have my lambic racks installed and filled up. Huge shoutout to evmo31 for nailing the design, build, and installation! It’s basically 5 individual 6x6 racks along with a corner cabinet so that it can be easily taken apart if needed.

Here’s the before picture:

And here it is installed:

Obligatory celebratory shot with some of the corner cabinet filled and some more boxes:

Cheers!

 

[matedog]

Quick Amazon search for temp controller:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MDSWXY4/?tag=talkbecom09-20

It mentions an overtemp sensor/fault alarm, but not an undertemp sensor (is that even a thing?). I'm assuming this basically acts as a circuit breaker that will open the circuit and kill power to the fridge if it gets too cold/hot, is that correct?

Will this one do the trick for preventing the over cooling issue?

 

[FTowne1]

Quick Amazon search for temp controller:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MDSWXY4/?tag=talkbecom09-20

It mentions an overtemp sensor/fault alarm, but not an undertemp sensor (is that even a thing?). I'm assuming this basically acts as a circuit breaker that will open the circuit and kill power to the fridge if it gets too cold/hot, is that correct?

Will this one do the trick for preventing the over cooling issue?

I used one of those on my keezer and it worked perfectly. The directions are a little janky (probably because of the Chinese to English conversion), but once you get it set it’s really simple to use.

 

[2plums4one]

Very excited to have my lambic racks installed and filled up. Huge shoutout to evmo31 for nailing the design, build, and installation! It’s basically 5 individual 6x6 racks along with a corner cabinet so that it can be easily taken apart if needed.

Here’s the before picture:

And here it is installed:

Obligatory celebratory shot with some of the corner cabinet filled and some more boxes:

Cheers!

Nice rack, and that's a lotta OGV.

 

[duketheredeemer]

I'm assuming more ice=more ****** up?

That's what I'd assume all else being equal. I'm sure there's some variance and whatnot, but if it looks like a couple of the lesser bottles are fine and had similar amounts of ice, there's a good chance the LPG is fine, too. Hoping for the best!

Will this one do the trick for preventing the over cooling issue?

I use one of these. Turns my compressor on at 54 F and off at 50 F. Has a 5 min ASD to prevent short-cycling, too. Can be programmed to do all kinds of neat ****. It's pretty rock-solid and is made for industrial applications, so I trust it pretty well.

Run the probe closer to the cooling elements if you're pushing your fridge cold/it's big with poor insulation to prevent over-cooling, though that will obviously come at the penalty of the rest of your fridge being warmer. If the fridge is smaller and/or well-insulated (or has a good air circulation fan), it should be a pretty consistent temperature throughout and probe placement becomes less important.

 

[Auror]

Yeah, I think freezing can easily screw up the carbonation. You're going to force most of the CO2 out when it freezes, and increase the volume of the solid/liquid as it freezes, so there's a good chance that at least some of your CO2 will blow out from the cap/cork.

Other possible issues: It can denature proteins and cause them to fall out of solution, or at least weird up your mouthfeel. Other things might be driven out as well during freezing, increasing their concentrations in the remaining liquids until they fall out of solution and may not readily return once the beer melts.

As matedog said, some microflora survive freezing well, but some do not. If its a mixed fermentation beer there's a decent chance that some of your microflora will be considerably reduced in population compared to others.

I'm sure there are other potential effects I'm forgetting or just not aware of. Freezing of complex solutions like beer is really complicated.

I've had my walk-in freeze beer en masse twice now. The beers have mostly been fine. The only thing I'd say after allowing beers to thaw and slowly reintegrate CO2 is a loss of aromatic flavor. Anecdotal, but most of the beers had less intense aroma. Even tested blind.

 

[neorunner]

A redundant fail open system controlling the temperature can't be much more cost vs the potential loss on a system freezing and destroying collections.

 

[stupac2]

A redundant fail open system controlling the temperature can't be much more cost vs the potential loss on a system freezing and destroying collections.

Depending on the setup you could also get a system that can't freeze. My wine fridge uses Peltier coolers which can only get ~25F below ambient temps. Kinda a bummer if the space gets really hot, but it makes it virtually impossible for them to freeze anything. Unless I move into an igloo, I guess.

 

[neorunner]

Depending on the setup you could also get a system that can't freeze. My wine fridge uses Peltier coolers which can only get ~25F below ambient temps. Kinda a bummer if the space gets really hot, but it makes it virtually impossible for them to freeze anything. Unless I move into an igloo, I guess.

Agreed, purpose built wine/beer fridges tend to be $$$ vs the chest freezer temp controller setups, especially at larger scales. I guess my point is you can save money with a chest freezer setup, but don't be such a cheapass that your $4000 beer collection freezes in your 150$ chest freezer because you went for the $19.99 budget temp controller and didn't add in any fail safes.

 

[stupac2]

Agreed, purpose built wine/beer fridges tend to be $$$ vs the chest freezer temp controller setups, especially at larger scales. I guess my point is you can save money with a chest freezer setup, but don't be such a cheapass that your $4000 beer collection freezes in your 150$ chest freezer because you went for the $19.99 budget temp controller and didn't add in any fail safes.

Also, consider operating costs! Peltier coolers are way, way more efficient than compressors, this fridge has probably paid for itself even compared to a "free" craigslist fridge and a probe.

 

[2plums4one]

I think if you have "expensive" beer that you plan on aging more than a year or two, the investment in a decent thermo-electric wine cooler is well worth it. I run three haier 18 bottle thermo-electrics, they cost me about 200$ a pop but are flawless and also thermo-electric offers some unique benefits.

 

[duketheredeemer]

Personally, I've replaced all the liquid in my expensive beer bottles with helium, as helium won't freeze even down absolute zero. It's the only way to be sure.

 

[neorunner]

Personally, I've replaced all the liquid in my expensive beer bottles with helium, as helium won't freeze even down absolute zero. It's the only way to be sure.

But I can't age those next to my icebock pastry lagers in my sterling engine sub-zero fridge

 

[trio2shine1]

Looking for anyone here with experience on under counter/built in wine fridges. Looking to make a decent purchase but don't think I can justify shelling out for a Eurocave.

Had my eye on a setup along these lines but haven't been able to pull the trigger.

http://www.wineenthusiast.com/n-finity-pro-double-s-wine-cellar.asp

Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[brother rebus]

$1800. holy. ****.

 

[stupac2]

Looking for anyone here with experience on under counter/built in wine fridges. Looking to make a decent purchase but don't think I can justify shelling out for a Eurocave.

Had my eye on a setup along these lines but haven't been able to pull the trigger.

http://www.wineenthusiast.com/n-finity-pro-double-s-wine-cellar.asp

Any feedback would be appreciated.

$1800 for 46 bottles? That's super ******* terrible, especially in CA you can usually find something on craigslist for decent. I don't think those halves are much bigger than mine which was like $200 on amazon, though the dimensions might be slightly off, I'm not sure. I'd really recommend shopping around, especially on craigslist, to find something cheaper. Is this for somewhere where aesthetics matter?