Beefing up a 'IIPA'

[danio]

Hello all,

I got a kit on sale recently that is supposedly a DIPA. It's got about 13lb 2 row, some crystal 60L and some caraamber. So the grain bill is OK by me.

But the hops are a bit slim. Here's the schedule:

60 min: 1 oz nuggett
45 min 1oz Galena
30 min: 1 oz columbus
0 min: 1 oz Willamette

It seems like I'm getting some nice bitter from the 60 and 45, right? But it really seems low on the flavor\aroma side of things...not quite a IIPA. I like mine really, really hoppy. With this as a starting recipe what hops would I have to add to sort of 'amplify' the direction it's already going in?

I have on hand: lots of Amarillo, Citra, Simcoe, and 1 oz falconer's flight. I could also goto the store (a few blocks away) and get whatever, but it'd be nice to use what I have.

Anyway, brewing tonight so I'll probably end up adding Amarillo at 20, 15, and 10 (maybe .5 oz each time.) Would that amplify the citrus?

Anyway, thanks for any feedback!

Dan

 

[Holter]

Those additions would be good because as it stands right now you won't have enough flavor for hops.

I'm assuming this is a 5 gallon recipe?

For my IIPA there is about 12 oz total for hops, so you still seem a little light for a IIPA. If the software doesnt calculate the IBUs at 150+ it is just an IPA IMHO. The hops you listed all work perfectly for this style, I would suggest pairing up your hop additions at the schedule you outline below. For the 20 minute, add some citra with the Amarillo. For the 15 add the FF and at the 10 minute mark I would add some simcoe, .5oz for each.

Then dry hop with an ounce of each of the hops you listed (or add them in different amounts to make one hop shine while the others support it). I am a big fan of layering. That should give you some amazing hop aroma and flavor which is what you want for this style. You need to be careful about adding too much sweetness to the malt bill though. A IIPA is going to draw a lot of sweet flavor from the alcohol present, so people usually avoid heavy caramel malts (although some people like them) and most remove some of the base malt and replace it with table sugar to make sure that the beer finishes out at less than 1.012. Mash low.

 

[bobbrews]

This is what I usually do and brew beers very similar to Surly Abrasive, Lagunitas Sumpin Sumpin, Green Flash Palate Wrecker, and Firestone Walker Union Jack.

Regular IPA: 6-9 oz. hops, 6-8% abv, 1.060-1.070 OG / 1.014-1.017 FG
Imperial IPA: 10-16 oz. hops, 8-10% abv, 1.070-1.085 OG / 1.010-1.015 FG

Use 2-row, or better yet characterful English base malts, wheat, rye, etc. - Use pellets at flameout and dryhop. Both leaf and pellet are good at every other timeframe. For my flameout additions, I wait until the wort is 150 F and slow cool it to 65 F for 30-60 minutes.

Bitter with: Columbus or Galena

Use these in any combination you decide at 10 / 5 / 0 / DH:

Citra
Amarillo
Simcoe
Nugget
Falconer's Flight
Columbus
Galena
Willamette

95%-100% of your hops should be used late. You can skip the traditional bittering addition and blast your beer at 10 minutes on... or you can use 5% for bittering and the rest at 10 minutes on. Dryhop an IIPA at the rate of 0.65 oz. to 1.00 oz. per gallon of beer. Regular IPAs require less.

Choose a clean yeast like WLP001 or 1056 and ferment in the LOW 60s. You can also get great results with English yeast like WLP007. I prefer it to WLP002 because it attenuates higher.

Other keys to showcase hop aroma: Keep the cara malts / crystal low. Keep FG low. Use some simple sugar like corn sugar to dry things out a bit more. Leave in the primary and/or secondary for at least 3-6 weeks. 3 is pushing the minimum side of things.

 

[danio]

OK - Great advice, thanks Holter and Bobbrews!

So I think this is what I'll do...I can't control the malt, so I wish there was less Crystal and Caraamber but I'm stuck, it's pre milled and pre mixed.

I love my bitterness so I think I'll keep the Galeena and Nugget early, and then I'll mix all my hops in a big bowl and start continuously hopping with whatever i grab out of the bowl. I've heard about this and I think it'd be fun to try. So here's the schedule:

60 min 1 oz Nuggett
45 min (maybe should be 60 for max bitter?) 1 oz Galena
7.5 min continuous hop to flameout with:
1 oz columbus
1 oz Willamette
1 oz FFlight
2 oz Simcoe
4 oz Amarillo
2 oz Citra

Then I'll dry hop with something depending. Not sure what.

Does that seem reasonable?

EDIT: I have US 05 and Nottingham. Original called for Nottingham...I'm thinking US 05 based off of your advise bobbrews. I love the clean profile anyway...

 

[bobbrews]

Columbus is usually of higher alpha % than Nugget, and Nugget is a little more aromatic. I really like Columbus as a bittering hop, but it is multi-purpose as well... just like many high alpha hops.

I don't believe or agree with the continuous hop method. It's a fad started by Dogfish Head as far as I'm concerned. Blasting your hoppy beer with lots of late additions and dryhops is key. You don't have to use all of your hop varieties either - 3 or 4 should do it.

Personally, I use 1056 or WLP001...but US-05 would work too.

 

[danio]

Well it's fermenting

Why do you think it's a fad? Wouldn't it give a smooth transition from flavor to aroma?

One way or the other, I made a very boring (and I think falsely labeled...) kit into an interesting experience.

 

[forum04pl]

Was this the AHS Promo Imperial? From the ingredient list it sounds just like the one I ordered a few weeks ago. Was going to do the same thing to it after i saw the measly amount of hops included.

Let me know how it tuns out.

 

[bobbrews]

Wouldn't it give a smooth transition from flavor to aroma?

No. I've made plenty of smooth 6-8% IPAs mashed low and at 120+ theoretical IBUs with only 2 or 3 boil additions. I usually proceed to blast them with hops at flameout and dryhop. Tons of hop flavor/aroma can be had while still having a complex beer with a decent, but not annoying amount of malt complexity.

 

[danio]

forum: yeah, it is. I usually love AHS's kits but I was definitely disappointed with the hops in this. Is 4oz even an IPA? Almost could be a pale it seems like. I guess that's why it was cheap. I'll let you know how this batch turns out (if I forget you can PM me in a few weeks if you like).

bobbrews: I agree with you that it's possible to get smooth IPAs with nice blend of bitter, flavor and aroma without continuously hopping. But theoretically it seems like a continuous addition between 7min - 0min would give you acids in all different stages? I've never done continuous before, so I'm totally impartial. Is there any potential downside to continuous?

 

[bobbrews]

But theoretically it seems like a continuous addition between 7min - 0min would give you acids in all different stages? I've never done continuous before, so I'm totally impartial. Is there any potential downside to continuous?

Traditionally, you are not really using hops from 7-0 min for their bittering acids. Yes, bittering still occurs here at a minor rate, but this time frame is mainly providing flavor and aroma. I recently brewed a Double IPA with no traditional bittering addition. It was simply 10-0-DH. After achieving 140 theoretical IBUs, the results were amazzzzzzzing! Of course, actual IBUs on the human tongue would not be this high...more like 80-95. This fact, combined with the high OG of my Double IPA made it an incredibly smooth beer with tons of hop aroma. A lot of traditional brewers say 90-60, maybe 45 in some cases would qualify as your bittering additions. I have a very unconventional thought on bittering additions. My mindset equates a bittering addition to be anywhere from 90 to as low as 15 minutes!

In my experience with brewing hop-aroma dominant beers AND cooking with fresh bright delicate herbs, the most potent and unmistakable results have come from adding the hops, and herbs respectively, late in the boil. A lot of brewers say 20 min - 0 min is best. But I think 10 min to 0 min is more accurate...or even 5 min to 0 min for more potency. You're destroying a lot of the delicate oils and beneficial aromatic components during the boil. Therefore, aroma is the most evident for me at 0 minutes (long warm steep) and dryhop (long cold steep). [Yes, I've tried many different methods]. So taking all of this into consideration, I blast my beers at these two stages more than any other stage. If I want hop flavor and aroma, my additions are always usually from 10-0 minutes as well as the dryhop. Any way you slice it, I use 95-100% of my hops late for IPAs... and a lot of them! That, I believe, is the key to excellent hop flavor/aroma.

 

[Holter]

Well it's fermenting

Why do you think it's a fad? Wouldn't it give a smooth transition from flavor to aroma?

One way or the other, I made a very boring (and I think falsely labeled...) kit into an interesting experience.

I'm not sure I'd call it a fad, it's more of a marketing gimmick- something dogfish head is excellent at.

I think your beer will turn out great. For me personally I like to have structured additions so that I can have more control over the final beer. With the hops you used this beer will be great.

Dry hopping shouldn't be overlooked though. You want to use some of the same hops in dry hopping that you used for the boil additions so you can help pull out those flavors. Simcoe is kind of the hop du jour for ipa aroma these days, for good reason. I'd make it my most pronounced dry hop addition. I add dry hops at the 80-90% mark of fermentation. It should have few bubbles coming out of the fermenter, but enough that the yeast are active and will pull out the oxygen in the hops.

Good luck!