BCS 460 complete builds

[Outbred]

Want to build a simple RIMS controller based on the bcs 460 (in case I want to expand later) and I'm having a hell of a time figuring out what parts I need and what some of them do.

Does anyone know of a well documented (parts list, step by step) bcs 460 build?

Even better, are there any books that explain the engineering behind the various parts of a brew control panel and why they are needed?

I've found lots of wiring diagrams but have yet to see a step by step explanation of what goes into building a panel and what all the parts do.

I'll eventually figure this stuff out and post one myself, but for now I just need a jumping off point.

Thanks!

q.

 

[grathan]

have you read the wiki on wiring it up?
http://wiki.embeddedcc.com/index.php/Wiring_and_Physical_Specifications

I don't own one. but can try to answer any specific questions you might have. There was also a huge thread here somewheres that answered questions as well. Haven't seen any parts lists, but there really isn't that many parts.

One consideration would be your current setup and where you would like to measure the mash temperature.

 

[Outbred]

Thanks for the reply.

Here's what I'm looking to do at the moment.

1: Control RIMS tube with temperature sensor at outflow of RIMS tube. Pump will just be running throughout the mash and I don't need it to be controlled.

2: Run post boil wort through plate chiller until chilled to 80 F using temperature probe in boil kettle and controlling pump.

3: Indicator light for RIMS.

4: Built in GFCI (if more cost effective then just putting a GFCI adapter on outlet).

5: Kill switch.

My conception so far is as follows:
1. BCS 460 attaches to 2 temperature probes and one solid state relay.
2. SSR controls current going to RIMS element (and pump when pump connected to controller).
3. External power goes to SSR and BCS 460.

I'm not sure what kind of interconnections there need to be between the various components or whether the temp probes are powered by the BCS or need their own connections.

I don't know what kind of wire is used to connect the components in the box.

From the wiring diagrams I've seen it looks like there is a bit more going on in the panel than just the connections above.

I have built many, many computers in my time so I'm confident I can figure this out, there's just way more documentation available for computers.

Thanks.

q

 

[AleForce1]

I have a BCS-460. I use it to control the temps in my HLT, MT, RIMS module and pump that is between my MT and RIMS module.

I am not aware of any step-by-step guides as everyone seems to build it according to their needs.

You could checkout their forum, lots of great info by BCS users http://forum.embeddedcc.com/ . You could also look at http://www.ebrewsupply.com/ to get an idea of complete kits.

What you need at least
- A BCS-460 or BCS-462 from brewer's hardware
- Control Box - depends on the size you want to use. great deals can be found on e-bay
- wiring - For wiring from the BCS box to the relays most use CAT5 cabling.
- A network connection in the area you will be using it in.
- Relays ; these are wired between the BCS box and AC Power . The 460 has 6 outputs; the 462 18 outputs . The BCS controls when the relays are on and off.
- temperature probes from brewer's hardware ; each output can have a temp probe associated with it
- outlets to plug in devices (heat sticks, hot plates, pumps, My RIMS module is a hot water heating element wired using a computer power supply power cable).
- For RIMS modules you should use something like what Brewers Hardware has to protect you from electrocuting yourself if your using a Tri-Clover RIMS modulehttp://www.brewershardware.com/TC15F10NPSCOV.html

If you want to do it yourself, I'd recommend getting a control box, BCS, relays w/Heatsinks, outlets, some CAT5 cabling. Mount what hardware where you want it in the control box, then hire an local electrician to wire up everything. It would probably take them an hour to wire everything correctly for you.

 

[Outbred]

Thanks for the replies. I think I have a pretty good handle on what goes into building one of these panels.

I did go with the brewershardware rims tube and one of their SS elements.

Now I just need to accumulate the rest without my wife noticing...

 

[AleForce1]

Now I just need to accumulate the rest without my wife noticing...

That's the hard part..

 

[grathan]

Some things I might mess up if I ordered and built one:


You do need compatible thermocouples and relays. Sounds like you need a minimum of 2 of each. I don't think 1 relay is a good idea for both pump and rims. Temperature probes are powered by the bcs.

Proper gauge wire for the hot side of the relays to elements. this depends on element size and how powerful of outlet you are using.

Indicator light for RIMS. Might be easier to get a heavy duty 240v light here then to try to wire it down for lower voltage, same with the kill switch. (assuming you're doing 240, 120 otherwise)

What outlet are you using? How many amps breaker does it have?

Might be cheapest to just GFCI the breaker at the box, not sure how gfci works, but that might be safer too if you don't understand how grounds work when wiring your panel.

 

[Outbred]

I'm planning on running the element of a 20A kitchen GFCI outlet so no worries there. It's one of the 2000W stainless ones from brewershardware.

I'm trying to figure out how to add in on off switches and indicator lights for each function now.

I've seen other builds where they installed a dial to control the current level going to the element (like a light dimmer switch maybe?). I'd love to include that function in case wort scorching becomes a problem.

Here's someone else's setup that I've broken down by component. Still trying to figure out where switches and indicators would wire in.



Thanks for the reply.

 

[Outbred]

Looking at your panel, that's more or less exactly what I want to make. How does the main power switch work? Is it controlling a master SSR?

 

[grathan]

Did you see this diagram with a e-stop in it?

 

[Outbred]

So when the Estop is closed it routes the hot directly to ground? What are the resistors and fuses for?

 

[grathan]

It brings it down to 0.6A , just mainly makes sure you don't get zapped when touching the switch.

 

[Outbred]

So there is no fuse before the element switch because you want it to run up to the full 20A? And how about for the pump, would you pick a fuse that was a little above the maximum current it would be expected to draw?

 

[ZymurGuy]

I'm planning on running the element of a 20A kitchen GFCI outlet so no worries there. It's one of the 2000W stainless ones from brewershardware.

I'm trying to figure out how to add in on off switches and indicator lights for each function now.

I've seen other builds where they installed a dial to control the current level going to the element (like a light dimmer switch maybe?). I'd love to include that function in case wort scorching becomes a problem.

Here's someone else's setup that I've broken down by component. Still trying to figure out where switches and indicators would wire in.



Thanks for the reply.

Funny. That pic is my panel. I like the notations you did! I should update my image to that one!

 

[Outbred]

Haha!

It's hard to find one where it's really clear where all the wires are going and what they're attaching too.

Your panel is google images famous!

 

[oakbarn]

I'm planning on running the element of a 20A kitchen GFCI outlet so no worries there. It's one of the 2000W stainless ones from brewershardware.

I'm trying to figure out how to add in on off switches and indicator lights for each function now.

I've seen other builds where they installed a dial to control the current level going to the element (like a light dimmer switch maybe?). I'd love to include that function in case wort scorching becomes a problem.

Here's someone else's setup that I've broken down by component. Still trying to figure out where switches and indicators would wire in.



Thanks for the reply.

The BCS has built in PWM Control. You can control the element within a Degree or two with the BCS. I do not think you will have scorching issues but I use a HERMS so what do I know. You can set it up where the RIMS Tube is only "hot" when the Pump Is powered. No Power to the Pump, No power to the RIMS (Programming not wiring). (Power to the Pump does NOT insure flow!!!!) You would need two SSRs, one for the element and one for the pump.

There really is no book or parts list for the DIY as there are soo many choices but Brewer's Hardware and Amazon have everything you need.

 

[ZymurGuy]

Haha!

It's hard to find one where it's really clear where all the wires are going and what they're attaching too.

Your panel is google images famous!

That pic is what I posted to the forum for my homebrew club, but at the time I wired it up I also did a little write-up and posted it at http://cockalebrewery.blogspot.com/2009/10/its-alive.html. It's changed a little bit since I did it (I now have a 462 instead of the 460) and added some additional things, but the basics are still the same.

 

[Outbred]

I haven't found one panel that is alike in all my searching. It's really interesting how unique they all seem to be.

So the PWM function controls the current level to the element, it's not just on or off?

I think if I run both the pump and element through the panel simultaneously it's going to have to be on 2 different circuits cause the kitchen ones are each 20A.

 

[ZymurGuy]

I haven't found one panel that is alike in all my searching. It's really interesting how unique they all seem to be.

So the PWM function controls the current level to the element, it's not just on or off?

I think if I run both the pump and element through the panel simultaneously it's going to have to be on 2 different circuits cause the kitchen ones are each 20A.

Correct - You have a couple options for controlling an outlet. PWM would control the duty cycle of the element, effectively controlling the power level of the element. Hysteresis control is on/off.

 

[Outbred]

I've notice people putting what look like breakers in their panels. Are these to protect the individual components that the panel is powering? E.g element running at 17.5A, pump running at 4A? Otherwise I would imagine the main electrical panel (circuit box) breakers would kick before any of the built in ones did.

If I wanted to have indicator lights that were illuminated only when the element or pump was running and illuminated switches that were lit when the option to turn the element or pump on was active how would I do this? I imagine that indicator light would be wired in parallel after the SSR and the illuminated switch would be somewhere between the BCS and SSR's?

Y'all have been extremely helpful so far. I think I'm almost ready to lay out a wiring diagram of my own.

Thanks!

 

[grathan]

So there is no fuse before the element switch because you want it to run up to the full 20A? And how about for the pump, would you pick a fuse that was a little above the maximum current it would be expected to draw?

2000 watts/ 120v = 16.6 amps that the element will draw. I think the diagram shows a 4 amp fuse, but a chugger pump doesn't draw nearly that much. More likely less than 2 amps. You could put a 20A fuse on the element power line, but the gfci would probably trip before it drew much more than the 16 amps.

The fuse on the pump/ pid also protect that equipement against a power surge (or bad wiring job).

 

[Outbred]

Alright, here's my first shot at a wiring diagram.

I meant it to have the following features:

1. Pump with manual (always on, for RIMS and wort transfer, BCS control for wort chilling).

2. Element cannot turn on unless pump in manual (always on) mode.

3. Powered indicator lights for element enabled and element disabled, element powered and element on.

4. Powered indicator lights for pump BCS, pump manual and pump on.

5. Power for element and pump on different circuits on main panel.

6. Emergency stop for element.

I know some of the features may be redundant but I really want to make sure that the element is never on by accident, never on or powered without me knowing and never on when the pump is off or on BCS control.

As always I am more than open to constructive criticism e.g. should I incorporate breakers? Fuses? Are any of the connections ridiculously wrong?

[/url][/IMG]

 

[Outbred]

Sorry for small image, here's a better one.

Why must the image insertion be so asinine for forums?:cross:

 

[grathan]

Seems OK. Another option is wiring the switches and indicators on the 5v side of things. Might be cheaper, though perhaps not as robust.

You using 2 power supplies? I wonder if that would trip the gfci with a ground loop.

 

[AleForce1]

Does anyone know of a well documented (parts list, step by step) bcs 460 build?

Even better, are there any books that explain the engineering behind the various parts of a brew control panel and why they are needed?

FYI - Just received the latest issue of BYO JAN/FEB 2015 issue this afternoon. There is a great write-up about a BCS-460 system.

 

[Outbred]

Seems OK. Another option is wiring the switches and indicators on the 5v side of things. Might be cheaper, though perhaps not as robust.

So the way things are set up now I would need 120V capable indicator lights, and switches, correct? Would these be suitable?

3 way switch : http://www.ebrewsupply.com/shop/indicators-switches/3-way-1-no-contact-switch.html

NO contact block : http://www.ebrewsupply.com/shop/indicators-switches/no-contact.html

Indicators lights : http://www.ebrewsupply.com/shop/indicators-switches/blue-110v-22m-led.html

You using 2 power supplies? I wonder if that would trip the gfci with a ground loop.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think that one 20A circuit would be able to run the 2000W element, ~2A pump and the BCS without tripping the main breaker. I figured I would have to plug into two outlets on different 20A circuits (one to power element, one to power pump and BCS).

I wondered whether sharing a ground would trip the GFCI so I made the 2circuits so that they are not connected at any point (unless the 3 grounds on the BCS are connected?).

Is there any utility to adding breakers to the system for the element and pump?

And does anyone know of any E-stop buttons with built in resistors to lower the current?

Thanks again!

 

[Outbred]

FYI - Just received the latest issue of BYO JAN/FEB 2015 issue this afternoon. There is a great write-up about a BCS-460 system.

I'll have to buy a copy.

Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Outbred]

Is this how you'd wire up the switch diagrammed to the right in real life?

I'm almost ready to start smuggling the components past my wife and into the safety of the basement.....

 

[grathan]

Your doing 3 way switches so you can run the elements manually or auto?

I wonder if an Estop is really nessessary if you have a switch on the element.

You should be able to use a single 20A outlet for 2000w and the pump. The grounds in the BCS are all tied.

 

[Outbred]

Doing three way switch so can have the pump on manual or bcs mode.

I have the hot line for the element ssr wired into the pump switch so that the element can only get power when the pump is in manual mode.

I wonder about routing that much power through the pump switch though. Can those contact blocks support so much current or should I find another way to achieve the same goal, eg through the bcs interface?

Thanks again!

 

[grathan]

There isn't any specs on the page you posted for the switches. I would think all switches would have an amperage rating.

You should test the 20a breaker in your kitchen to see what else is plugged into it. The fridge for example would certainly trip the breaker if you use a single power supply. chances are if your using 2 power supplies, they might just be tied together anyways which would defeat the purpose.

Doing three way switch so can have the pump on manual or bcs mode.
I have the hot line for the element ssr wired into the pump switch so that the element can only get power when the pump is in manual mode.

I don't understand the logic there. Wouldn't you just have auto/manual options for both pump/element. Like say BCS isn't working, just flip to manual for the day...
*edit, i forgot this is a RIMS element. Wouldn't it make sense to wire the rims outlet so it could also be a heat stick outlet to use in the brew kettle though?

 

[Outbred]

Good points.

Guess it would make more sense to just have both element and pump have an auto and manual setting

I'll have to see what else is on the circuit. Make sure it doesn't kick at a bad time.

Think having the indicator lights on the 5 volt side might make sense like you said earlier. Would those all be powered by the single 5vdc output on the bcs?

 

[grathan]

Sure, you could do it like that. The relay expects a certain range to operate, so the draw of the LED should not take more than needed.

Though of course you are gonna have a computer screen showing this stuff anyways with the BCS and it wouldn't work in manual mode.

 

[Outbred]

Welp I suppose there's nothing left to do but build.

You've been immensely helpful.

Thanks again.

 

[JoshuaW]

FYI - Just received the latest issue of BYO JAN/FEB 2015 issue this afternoon. There is a great write-up about a BCS-460 system.

I just ordered a subscription, and it says I should be getting that issue around 1/8/15. I know BYO does digital issues, do you know if there is a way for me to access that now? I'm planning on ordering parts in the next week and would love to read that article!

Your post is actually the whole reason I subscribed

 

[grathan]

Welp I suppose there's nothing left to do but build.

You've been immensely helpful.

Thanks again.

Be sure to post back difficulties. I hope to wire one day myself.

 

[AleForce1]

I just ordered a subscription, and it says I should be getting that issue around 1/8/15. I know BYO does digital issues, do you know if there is a way for me to access that now? I'm planning on ordering parts in the next week and would love to read that article!

Your post is actually the whole reason I subscribed

There have been at least one other article in the past 2-3 yrs where a BCS was used in the system being profiled, but the article in the latest issue was much more thorough. You might ping BYO about getting access to the latest issue early via their digital issue.

 

[brewtime]

I have a BCS-460. I use it to control the temps in my HLT, MT, RIMS module and pump that is between my MT and RIMS module.

I am not aware of any step-by-step guides as everyone seems to build it according to their needs.

You could checkout their forum, lots of great info by BCS users http://forum.embeddedcc.com/ . You could also look at http://www.ebrewsupply.com/ to get an idea of complete kits.

What you need at least
- A BCS-460 or BCS-462 from brewer's hardware
- Control Box - depends on the size you want to use. great deals can be found on e-bay
- wiring - For wiring from the BCS box to the relays most use CAT5 cabling.
- A network connection in the area you will be using it in.
- Relays ; these are wired between the BCS box and AC Power . The 460 has 6 outputs; the 462 18 outputs . The BCS controls when the relays are on and off.
- temperature probes from brewer's hardware ; each output can have a temp probe associated with it
- outlets to plug in devices (heat sticks, hot plates, pumps, My RIMS module is a hot water heating element wired using a computer power supply power cable).
- For RIMS modules you should use something like what Brewers Hardware has to protect you from electrocuting yourself if your using a Tri-Clover RIMS modulehttp://www.brewershardware.com/TC15F10NPSCOV.html

If you want to do it yourself, I'd recommend getting a control box, BCS, relays w/Heatsinks, outlets, some CAT5 cabling. Mount what hardware where you want it in the control box, then hire an local electrician to wire up everything. It would probably take them an hour to wire everything correctly for you.

:rockin: