Saison BBD Saison Furtif

[starrfish]

I plan on French hopping, and am shooting for mid to upper 70's. Kinda want a little ester profile from the yeast.

you'll get it in that range... it throws esters! 3711 is a descendant of wine yeast mutated to ferment beer... puts out some red wine aromas and flavors, esp with strisselspalt raisin character. I'm an english style guy but this is one of my most interesting beers. Rivals some of my herb & honey beers (like coriander and recently Basil).

 

[Waterboy42]

Num! My house beer is American hopped with English malt, been looking for another goto recipe and this one looks delish!

 

[ChshreCat]

This yeast is such a monster I don't bother with a starter. I have tweaked OG down to 1054 since this yeast is so aggressive.

1.054? That's not gonna hurt anyone! Yer taking the fun out of it!

 

[starrfish]

LOL I hear ya! after last FULL version on tap I decided I needed to knock it back for draft. Need to bottle a batch of full strength again soon, Love the full strength too much!

 

[Waterboy42]

1.054? That's not gonna hurt anyone! Yer taking the fun out of it!

Hehe, as dry as this is . . . With the esters . . . I might be able to convince a few more peeps to try craft brews! Three weeks from now she's bubbling!

Got the, "Oh, a dark beer," from my Moms husband. This'll change his mind . . . And give him a nasty hangover if he doesn't!

 

[starrfish]

yeah, even at 1054 it's still going to hit in the high 6% range. It is a crowd pleaser at the lower end. A real beer drinkers dream at the high end, but it can pack a punch at the high end....

I do call the 1054 version "saison furtif - lite"

Use the clear belgian candy sugar or corn sugar if you can't find the light, to keep color in the low SRMs. Full Verision I brew to a dirty penny copper, with just a touch (ounce or 2) of black pat.

 

[lolobrewman]

Your schedule sounds like it would work. 3711 tends to work really fast to get you down to what seems like a reasonable FG, then it slowly cranks it down lower... and lower... and lower.

Starters are always a good idea and I recommend doing one if you can. That said... I always just pitch the smack pack right into the wort on every brew I use liquid yeast in.

Thanks for the quick reply. Got thrown off my schedule so now it's Monday. Will do a small 1L starter. One more quick question. I'm new to partial mashing and am wondering what temp you get the water to before adding the grain to have it stabalize at 150? The last partial I did, I started with 150 degree water which ended up at 130 after adding the grain, let that stabalize for 30 mins and then added enough boiling water to bring it up to 150 and left it there for an hour and then sparged with 175 degree water to the boiling pot. One more step but worked well.

 

[Waterboy42]

1.054? That's not gonna hurt anyone! Yer taking the fun out of it!

Haha! My recipe ends up at 1.074!

 

[ChshreCat]

Thanks for the quick reply. Got thrown off my schedule so now it's Monday. Will do a small 1L starter. One more quick question. I'm new to partial mashing and am wondering what temp you get the water to before adding the grain to have it stabalize at 150? The last partial I did, I started with 150 degree water which ended up at 130 after adding the grain, let that stabalize for 30 mins and then added enough boiling water to bring it up to 150 and left it there for an hour and then sparged with 75 degree water to the boiling pot. One more step but worked well.

Beersmith calculates my temps for me. Says 163 degrees F to the Mash and 168F for the sparge.

 

[lolobrewman]

Beersmith calculates my temps for me. Says 163 degrees F to the Mash and 168F for the sparge.

Thanks again. Don't have Beersmith (yet) so will use your numbers. I want this to be a great beer and obviously, this one is in the upper end of that catagory. BTW, corrected sparge temp in my last post.

 

[iheartcraftbeer]

Brewing up this one on Saturday. According to Hopville, here are the stats. Pretty excited to watch this yeast have sex with itself. The only thing I'm concerned about is ferm temp. I'll have to keep my space heater on for the first few days to keep it warm enough.

Brew day went without a hitch! Hit 1.064 OG. The next morning I had a nice, thick krauesen and the airlock was bubbling away. The space heater was set on 78F for the first 24 hours or so. I've knocked it down 1-2 deg since.

I will post tasting notes eventually. Thanks again for the recipe, Cat.

 

[lolobrewman]

Re ferm temp, I hope I didn't screw my batch up. Got my wort down to 95 via chiller and strained to carboy, topped off to 5.5 gallons with cool water and the temp was 76-78 so I pitched my 1L starter (3711). Wanted to ferm in low 80's so wrapped a heating pad on at lowest temp and when I went to bed was merrily perking away at about 82. When I got up this morning, was in the mid 90's. Shut it off and am letting it get back into the mid to low 80's and will try to hold it there, but question is, did the overnight in the 90's hurt anything? Still lots of fermentation activity and I love the slightly sweet aroma it's giving off.

 

[ChshreCat]

You might have a little more of an alcohol flavor to it, but that's about all to worry about.

 

[Grumpybumpy]

Welp, as much as my friends and I love this beer, the judges thought it was "good"

Here's my 2 scoresheets for the Cascade Brewers Cup Pro Am (500+ entries)
Judge 1 (non-BJCP)
Aroma 6/12
Very fruity, spiciness. Maltiness in the background. A yeasty, mustiness back there too.

Appearance 1/3???
Brilliantly clear golden color. Small head dissipates quickly (I disagree, this head lasts a while)

Flavor 12/20
Fruity caramel (????) maltiness, nice balance with hops, but not so much else. A little spiciness.

Mouthfeel 2/5
Medium body and carbonation. Almost syrupy, with strong alcohol note that helps clean the finish. THicker than the style would indicate. No so dry and refreshing (WTF? It ended at 1.002!!!!)

Overall Impression 5/10
Nice flavors in a good base example of the style (ok so why not a higher score?). The flavors don't match the gravity however (I say that's a good thing), and carbonation issues contribute to a cloying middle. Consider less attenuation or fermentation temps schedule. (wait, it's not dry enough but you want less attenuation????)

Final Score: 26

Judge 2 (certified)
Aroma 7/12
Fruity, spicy nose with malt sweetness underneath. Light sour/tart notes - good for style. Dusty/yeasty flavor should not be there (wait, you've tasted it?)

Appearance 2/3
Very clear, copper color. Pours with a large head but fades quickly

Flavor 9/20
Fruity, peppery flavors with sweet malt backbone. Finishes with a cloying syrup flavor

Mouthfeel 3/5
Light to medium body. Moderate carbonation. Finishes with a hot/warming lingering aftertaste. Cloying sweetness

Overall Impression 5/10
Elimiate the cloying sweetness to make this ber a dry, refreshing example of the style. Fruity, spicy aroma and flavor are good for style. Watch fermentation temps. (I thought they should be high...and they were maintained with a spare room with its own temp control...)

Final score 26

Both judges marked middle of the road for "Stylistic Accuracy", "Technical Merit", and "Intangibles"



So, I guess what I've learned is that maybe I should drop some of the base malt to get rid of some of the cloying sweetness and hot alcohol flavors. Maybe I'll ferment at a lower temperature and add some adjuncts for the spice.

All of that said, I still think this is a fantastic beer and I have yet to find a saison I like more. Brew it, drink it, love it.

 

[ChshreCat]

I'm not surprised. When I sent this in to NHC once two of the judges said that it needed to be fermented further, yet I took it down right to 1.000 and it was very bone dry.

Yours does sound like it might have a little more sweetness than I usually get in mine. Not sure why that would be. Or you just got lame judges. That's been known to happen. One of mine also pointed out things in it that should be in that style of beer, yet the BJCP guide specifically says they should be. *shrug*

 

[starrfish]

I'm not surprised. When I sent this in to NHC once two of the judges said that it needed to be fermented further, yet I took it down right to 1.000 and it was very bone dry.

Yours does sound like it might have a little more sweetness than I usually get in mine. Not sure why that would be. Or you just got lame judges. That's been known to happen. One of mine also pointed out things in it that should be in that style of beer, yet the BJCP guide specifically says they should be. *shrug*

Even my Lite version has these "faults" that started at 1054 and ended at 1002. (6.8%) more Judges need to taste this yeast. It's a beast and leaves a bunch of malt character behind. My lite didn't do well in competition either (waiting on score sheet) but got beat by another dryer saison from what I've been told.

This yeast leaves a sweet sticky good body even at low FG.

Sorry I LIKE IT! non beer judges picked up lemon, raisin (strisslespalt) and an unknown sweetness... of which some said pineapple.

Had some BMC crowd taste it and said WOW... great beer! Always a crowd pleaser. Saisons rarely take a best of show as it's got a funky thang going... just waiting for judge sheets and crowd sheets.... love to see crowd sheets...

 

[David8464]

Brewed this up last night, also my first partial mash so it was a good learning experience. Only change I made (mainly because I wasn't paying attention) was I dumped a whole ounce of Saaz for the 10 minute addition, woops.

For my first partial, I was pretty happy, my OG was close, but a little off. It came out right around 1.060, pitched a small starter, and already had pretty furious airlock activity this morning. Going to need to keep an eye on it and keep the blow off tube handy.

It's also nice to not have to worry about temp control much, since I can only cool one batch at a time, this is letting me have multiples going at the same time.

 

[iheartcraftbeer]

Hey Cat, question regarding FG:

I brewed this on 3/03 and my OG was 1.064. I checked the gravity last Saturday (3/24) and it was 1.008. I roused the yeast cake a bit, and then measured again last night (3/28) but it's still 1.008. I was hoping to bottle this Saturday (3/31). What do you suggest?

 

[ChshreCat]

I'd expect it to slowly go down a few more points. I'd give it another week and if it's the same then I'd go ahead and bottle but use a little less bottling sugar than I'd otherwise use, just in case.

 

[tojo]

Brewed this up last night, also my first partial mash so it was a good learning experience. Only change I made (mainly because I wasn't paying attention) was I dumped a whole ounce of Saaz for the 10 minute addition, woops.

For my first partial, I was pretty happy, my OG was close, but a little off. It came out right around 1.060, pitched a small starter, and already had pretty furious airlock activity this morning. Going to need to keep an eye on it and keep the blow off tube handy.

It's also nice to not have to worry about temp control much, since I can only cool one batch at a time, this is letting me have multiples going at the same time.

I learned the hard way...Do the blow off tube first and then put the airlock on after a few days = No mess to clean up and no worrying about infection.

 

[David8464]

Yeah, I usually do the blow off tube right at the start, but since I started this late after work, it was a bit late by the time I finished and I just shoved an airlock on it. I'll be swapping it out when I get home to be safe if it last that long, but I've got it in a spare 7.8g bucket I had, so hopefully that will be enough until then.

 

[iheartcraftbeer]

Will do. Thanks for the advice. I'll let you know this time next week.

 

[pwndabear]

i cant wait to make this one again. i only have 3 left and im bringing them to my local homebrew club for BJCP tasting guidelines on wednesday.

 

[ChshreCat]

I enjoy this beer so much as it is, this is how I'll brew it for my own consumption. But... It might be interesting to make a BJCP friendly version to brew for competitions.

 

[pwndabear]

I had two bjcp judges (as well as a whole group of people) try this beer. If this beer had been a little younger, I think it would have been better but they both scored it as an average of 35. Yay for me! Brewing again in a couple weeks. Gonna keep my temps a bit down this time and see how it works out; first ferment was at ~80°F

 

[zaphro]

Right on. Threw this down last night. First brew in quite a while. It was kind of spur of the moment, the local shop didn't have the 3711 so I used the 3724. Despite mashing it in a bag, and then ladling hot water over the grains my SG was at 1.070, which was much better then I though would happen. Now I have it in the warmest part of my house, in a bucket of water to keep the temp stable. I can just barely see the air lock over the table and it is going crazy. I am pretty excited about this one. Let us see in a few weeks.

 

[pwndabear]

you might want to put a blowoff tube on there...

 

[mckay75]

i helped a friend brew this up a few weeks ago. Checked the gravity on it today (still had krausen on top...so we thought it was still fermenting)...and it was all the way down to 1.002 (down from 1.056). We totally missed adding the belgian candy sugar. My question...can we still add it this late? It would have been 2 weeks from brew day Friday past. Can we add it and maybe rouse up the yeast a bit when we add it?

Thanks

 

[ChshreCat]

Go for it! The yeast are just gettin' hungry again.

 

[David8464]

Well, after about 3 weeks in primary, I popped the lid and took a sample. I guess I had to see it to believe it, I stared at my hydrometer for a few seconds, pulled it out, made sure it was clean, and spun it around. Each time the result was the same 1.000. I even double checked with my refractometer and got the same result. Very excited about this one, I'll be racking it to a secondary in just a bit to let it age a while, but just from the sample, it tasted and smelled awesome.