Batch Sparging habits

[Gamer]

I brew 5.5 gallon batches and try for 6.5 boil volume. I've only done 3 all grain brews. I batch sparge as below.

1 Add 4 gallons of 165 water and fold grain in. Mash gets to 154-155 for one hour.
2 Vorlough (however you spell that) and drain at 1/2 open.
3 Add 2 gallons of 168 water for 10 minutes.
4 Vorlough and drain.
5 Add 2.5 gallons of 168 water for 10 minutes
6 Vorlough and drain until I reach 6.5 gallons in the kettle.
** these amounts give me pretty close to 6.5 if I drain all the water out on step 6.

Do I get anything out of doing 2 batch sparges or should I just add all the sparge water at one time? I do notice the wort getting lighter with each sparge.

 

[MalFet]

A double batch sparge can get you marginally higher efficiency in theory. It's not a terribly huge difference on most beers, though.

Otherwise, all looks fine.

 

[forstmeister]

My process is very similar, but I sparge with water at about 195-200 degrees. Also stir thoroughly with each addition.

 

[Gamer]

Tys guys. Members in these forums are awesome.

 

[Denny]

Unless you have a mash twun too small to fit all your sparge water in it at once, there's so little gain in more than one sparge addition that it's not really worth the effort. Also, ther's no reason and no gain in letting the sparge water sit for 10 min. I wrote that years ago and people latched on to it. I've since revised my thinking and method. See www.dennybrew.com

 

[Gamer]

Unless you have a mash twun too small to fit all your sparge water in it at once, there's so little gain in more than one sparge addition that it's not really worth the effort. Also, ther's no reason and no gain in letting the sparge water sit for 10 min. I wrote that years ago and people latched on to it. I've since revised my thinking and method. See www.dennybrew.com

No wait between adding sparge water and draining? Dump the water, stir, vorlough and drain?

 

[Denny]

No wait between adding sparge water and draining? Dump the water, stir, vorlough and drain?

That's correct. I've been doing it that way for the last 10 years or so. No reason not to.

 

[Yooper]

Something else to consider, but there is no reason to drain the MLT with the valve half open (or half closed, depending on your point of view!). Crack it open at first, but then open it full bore.

One of the great things about batch sparging is that it's quick. If waiting during additions and draining it slow, the "advantage" of times saving is negated. It won't hurt, of course, but it also doesn't help.

 

[logdrum]

Denny, do you still aim for 2 equal run offs via a "pseudo-mashout"?

 

[Denny]

Denny, do you still aim for 2 equal run offs via a "pseudo-mashout"?

I still aim for 2 kinda equal runoffs....my experience is that if they're within a gal. or so of each other it's close enough. I seldom do the "pseudo mashout" addition any more. I simply started using more mash water so I can avoid that. I usually mash at 1.6- 2 qt./lb.

 

[mbauer013]

I have recently been doing some variation on my sparge along the lines of what denny is talking about and I actually do see a marked improvement in more than one sparge. I have eliminated the wait time if I stir well enough. My basic sparge is 2 gallons boiling water to get the mash up to mash-out temps, then two 3.5 gallon sparges with vourlaufs, and no rest time. This maybe due to the fact that I use very low water to grist (1-1.25 qt/lb) and I condition my grain prior to grinding very fine. The grain conditioning is used to get better efficiency and more intact husks so my gravities are planned at 82% efficiency. If I only perform one sparge I get about 74% efficiency. I happened uppon this while doing some parti-gyle brews (which is essentially a batch sparge) and had significant amounts of sugar remaining for the last run. Not disagreeing, Denny, but it may depend on equipment and other techniques used. For instance my brewing club buddy sees only 2% increase when he does a double sparge.

 

[logdrum]

I still aim for 2 kinda equal runoffs....my experience is that if they're within a gal. or so of each other it's close enough. I seldom do the "pseudo mashout" addition any more. I simply started using more mash water so I can avoid that. I usually mash at 1.6- 2 qt./lb.

Good info, thanks. I'll be sure to try this on my next brew day.

 

[TyTanium]

I still aim for 2 kinda equal runoffs....my experience is that if they're within a gal. or so of each other it's close enough. I seldom do the "pseudo mashout" addition any more. I simply started using more mash water so I can avoid that. I usually mash at 1.6- 2 qt./lb.

I believe that was your 2,000th post. 2,000 pieces of great advice, wow. Thank you.

 

[Denny]

I have recently been doing some variation on my sparge along the lines of what denny is talking about and I actually do see a marked improvement in more than one sparge. I have eliminated the wait time if I stir well enough. My basic sparge is 2 gallons boiling water to get the mash up to mash-out temps, then two 3.5 gallon sparges with vourlaufs, and no rest time. This maybe due to the fact that I use very low water to grist (1-1.25 qt/lb) and I condition my grain prior to grinding very fine. The grain conditioning is used to get better efficiency and more intact husks so my gravities are planned at 82% efficiency. If I only perform one sparge I get about 74% efficiency. I happened uppon this while doing some parti-gyle brews (which is essentially a batch sparge) and had significant amounts of sugar remaining for the last run. Not disagreeing, Denny, but it may depend on equipment and other techniques used. For instance my brewing club buddy sees only 2% increase when he does a double sparge.

If I was in your situation, I'd say to myself "You're working too hard at what should be a fun hobby" and figure out a way to simplify things. Change your equipment, go to a higher mash ratio....

 

[mbauer013]

Really? Doesn't seem like too much work to me, way better than when i used to fly sparge! I still get a batch done in about 5-6 hours so I am good, its the only "me" time I get, no need to shorten it! My grist ratios are where they are so I can do a 10 gallon batch over 1.060, any more than that and I'd have to get a bigger mash tun.

 

[brewski08]

Hey Gamer,

everything looks good with your process.

have you ever check out BierMuncher's hybrid sparge technique (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/hybrid-fly-sparge-technique-75454/)? with this process, you can always hit your boil volume ( i, too, use a boil volume of 6.5 gallons and add 5.5 to my fermenter), and the only additional piece of equipment you need is a sauce pan or ladle.

i only batch sparged once. all the calculations were annoying, and after not hitting my desired boil volume, i was extremely frustrated.

with the hybrid sparge technique, you just heat up 6.5 gallons of hot water and sparge until you reach your desired boil volume.

worth checking out.

 

[Gamer]

Thanks for link. After I run it all out, i put in 1 gallon at a time until I get to the 6.5 boil volume and stop the drain. Normally takes 2 sparges, but once took 3.

 

[tre9er]

Hey Gamer,

everything looks good with your process.

have you ever check out BierMuncher's hybrid sparge technique (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/hybrid-fly-sparge-technique-75454/)? with this process, you can always hit your boil volume ( i, too, use a boil volume of 6.5 gallons and add 5.5 to my fermenter), and the only additional piece of equipment you need is a sauce pan or ladle.

i only batch sparged once. all the calculations were annoying, and after not hitting my desired boil volume, i was extremely frustrated.

with the hybrid sparge technique, you just heat up 6.5 gallons of hot water and sparge until you reach your desired boil volume.

worth checking out.

This is possible with batch sparging too. That's the thing people don't seem to realize. Either way you sparge, the runoffs just need to go until you hit preboil volume. There's no need for exact amounts of strike and sparge water and then let it all out and pray it's right.

Strike with your 1.25qts/lb. or whatever ratio you find you like (higher has been working better for me). Then heat up enough sparge water to account for your preboil volume when added to the first runnings (which are strike minus absorption)...maybe a little more, like I do. Then sparge, either method, until you hit preboil volume.

If you heat more sparge water than you need the beauty is you just shut the valve on the MLT off. If you were aiming for perfect volumes at every turn, no more, no less...you run the risk of having too LITTLE wort in the kettle...not as easily corrected.

That's why I pound the drum of "mark your mash paddle or kettle with volume measurements!". It makes sparging so. much. easier.

 

[Denny]

Really? Doesn't seem like too much work to me, way better than when i used to fly sparge! I still get a batch done in about 5-6 hours so I am good, its the only "me" time I get, no need to shorten it! My grist ratios are where they are so I can do a 10 gallon batch over 1.060, any more than that and I'd have to get a bigger mash tun.

The difference between you and me is in those last few words...I'd get a bigger tun!

 

[mbauer013]

Working on it Denny, trust me, not to mention a bigger hot liqour tank to hold the sparge water and lift it safely, etc. small change in process requiring a big change in equipment.

 

[Denny]

Wow, I have to admit that I'm way too clumsy to even think about having hot water up high where I could knock it over! I don't use a hot liquor tank per se. I just use the pot I heat the water in, then xfer it to the tun using a pitcher.

 

[tre9er]

Wow, I have to admit that I'm way too clumsy to even think about having hot water up high where I could knock it over! I don't use a hot liquor tank per se. I just use the pot I heat the water in, then xfer it to the tun using a pitcher.

I think it's pretty cool to have a guy everyone respects who's brewed hundreds (thousands?) of beers and doesn't have a "fancy" setup. Goes to show everyone it can be done with little investment and just some careful planning.

 

[MalFet]

Wow, I have to admit that I'm way too clumsy to even think about having hot water up high where I could knock it over! I don't use a hot liquor tank per se. I just use the pot I heat the water in, then xfer it to the tun using a pitcher.

Indeed. Heck, I don't even use hot water.

 

[mbauer013]

Wow, I have to admit that I'm way too clumsy to even think about having hot water up high where I could knock it over! I don't use a hot liquor tank per se. I just use the pot I heat the water in, then xfer it to the tun using a pitcher.

I'm having a Duh moment, I use a HLT that is a 5 gallon pot, so my sparge right now is 3.5 gallons and I lift the whole pot and pour it in. I was just thinking that if I get a larger pot for this so my sparge volume can go over 5 gallons (as it would have to do if I use two equal sparges on 10 gallon batches) i would have to lift it to pour. Never even thought of a pitcher to transfer between vessels. I had visions of pumps and hoses and $$$. Thanks for keeping it simple. All I really need is a pot and my vourlauf pitcher would work to transfer.

 

[crushingblackdoom]

Hey Denny, Mr. Batch Sparge! You've shown me the ways.
Question: is 2X grinding grain worth the trouble to get a better efficiency? I only do it cuz I've noticed a bit of my grain bill not cracked at all when I finally dough in. So I thought if I double crush my grain at my lhbs, I might actually get more sugars converted, and a bump on my efficiency... Any thoughts on this grain question is greatly appreciated! Grazi Mil !

 

[downtown3641]

Wow, I have to admit that I'm way too clumsy to even think about having hot water up high where I could knock it over! I don't use a hot liquor tank per se. I just use the pot I heat the water in, then xfer it to the tun using a pitcher.

That's my approach. Took a couple of batches before I learned to take off the leather gloves I wear when I'm handling the hot pot. Dunked my knuckles, which are covered by fabric with these gloves, in the water. The extra contact time from the absorption was unpleasant.

 

[DrinkNoH2O]

I've found that stirring the **** out of the grain after adding the sparge water (and before draining) has a lot more effect of efficiency than waiting a pre determined amount of time before draining the tun.

I prefer to do two equal sparges though and here's why:

-My first sparge rinses most of the sugars but doesn't quite fill the BK.

-The second sparge output is then very diluted (few sugars) so I don't care as much about volume and once my BK is full I don't worry about the remains in the tun containing much sugar to be left behind (whereas if I did one sparge it would all be at the same level of dilution and if I had too much volume I'd potentially leave more sugars behind).

I do find I get a couple of percentage points higher efficiency due to this when I do a double sparge.

EDIT: In a nutshell, by doing two separate sparges I can guarantee that any excess volume left behind will be of a lower SG than excess volume from a single sparge. Thus the increase in efficiency.

 

[doublehaul]

Is this possible? - on my last batch -

mashed with ~ 3.7 gallons, collected 1.5
sparged with 5.5, thinking I'd end with 7 total - but collected 4, for 5.5
so i had to sparge again to get just under 7 total.

I would think my deadspace would have been full and grain absorption done, and i would have got 5.5 out of the 1st sparge. It seems like I had this same issue on the previous batch so I took good notes.

 

[Denny]

Hey Denny, Mr. Batch Sparge! You've shown me the ways.
Question: is 2X grinding grain worth the trouble to get a better efficiency? I only do it cuz I've noticed a bit of my grain bill not cracked at all when I finally dough in. So I thought if I double crush my grain at my lhbs, I might actually get more sugars converted, and a bump on my efficiency... Any thoughts on this grain question is greatly appreciated! Grazi Mil !

That's something you have to decide for yourself. I keep my mill gap set small enough that I don't need to. Compare your efficiency between single and double crushing and decide for yourself.