Batch #3

[HopsMan]

Ok, I have been through 2 "practice batches", the first was a european style light lager. I am not usually a fan of this particular variety, but figured it would be a wonderful starter. The second was an Octoberfest, more my style, and a batch I am really looking forward to. I'll note that these were both from kits purchased from a brew shop. I will also note, I am a complete noob.

I have had a few problems congruent with both batches that I am curious about:

1. The FG is not where it should be, meaning the alcohol content is lower than what is stated in the kit. What does a guy do to fix this problem? I imagine a well versed brewer would tweak recipes or kits to his liking, but as I stated, I'm a noob, and have followed the recipes to the letter.

2. I have had two bottles of the octoberfest, once 2 weeks after bottling and one the other night, which was a month after bottling. There is certainly a big difference in taste, carbonation and overall satisfaction. However, as was the case with the first batch, there is a slight, raw alcohol aftertaste that I am not accustomed to in store bought beer. I'm curious as to what this is and how to get rid of it, it's nasty!

3. The clarity is not there. I two stage ferment, but have not been able to produce even a relatively clear beer so far. Is it something that comes with time in the bottle? Or have I been too rough with the secondary prior to bottling?

The second question is by far the most important for me. I'm going to try a kit for Hop Head Double IPA tomorrow, and will be pretty bummed if I screw this up. So any all suggestions, tips, do's and don'ts are welcomed and appreciated!

Thanks guys and gals!

 

[wafox]

what temp did you take your gravity reading at? Hydrometer readings need to be adjusted based on temp of the liquid. I assume your kit was extract based? I've had some extract's that have kind of a ... tangy taste on the back end - hard to guess at.

On the clarity issue do some searches on the forum for cold crashing and gelatin you'll find some good info.

 

[dcp27]

1) how far off are we talking about? extract brews have a tendency to finish around 1.02 if that's where it is. otherwise it could be related to poor aeration, fermentation temperature, or pitching temperature among other things.

2) even a month is still a little early for some beers. it might just still be green and need more time. a minimum of 3 weeks is usually recommended after bottling. also what temperature did you ferment at? higher temperatures can lead to strong alcoholic taste

3) have you tried using irish moss, gelatin, or some other clarifier? also, how long are you giving it in the primary and secondary before bottling? are you pouring out the full beer? there will be dregs at the bottom of the bottle and can make it look cloudy

if you can give more details on your fermentation processes, we might be able to round it down better

 

[HopsMan]

For fermentation, I try to keep the temp around 68-70 degrees. I know with the Octoberfest, it may have been up to 72 at one point. I left both beers in the primary fermenter for, I believe, 8 days. Secondary on the light lager was exactly two weeks, and secondary on the Octoberfest was just shy of a month, mostly for lack of time to bottle it. I leave a good portion of the beer in the bottom after each racking, so I'm leaving out a lot of the crap on both.

I used irish moss on the first batch, but it was still rather cloudy, I did not on the second, so really, the cloudiness there is not so surprising.

As for the FG, I can't find my notes at the moment, mostly there was just little change, so it was around 1.015-1.016, if I remember correctly.

Thanks for the input!

 

[l1ranger]

theres several reason your reading could be off, temperature comes to mind, as does actual volume, was your OG on?

high pitch and fermentation temps can create fusel alcohols that i've experienced as a raw alcohol. depending on how strong these are, time will help mellow them out.

are you using any clarifying aids? also, you say you transfer to secondary, but thats very vague. one week in primary and a week in secondary isn't going to let you beer clear. Not saying thats what you did, but just an example.
then again, clarity isn't all that high on my list right yet as I'm still pretty new to it as well.

both styles are lagers, where the fermenter like a lager or was it an ale kit to resemble these lager styles?

as for you next batch, you might try some clarifier to help with that. Get your wort down to about 66 degrees F before pitching your yeast and try to mainting a temperature around 66 to 68 degrees throughout fermentation (check your yeast temp ranges to be sure, but try to keep it nearer the bottom of the range, than the top). If using liquid yeast, consider a starter. if using dry yeast, rehydrate prior to pitching.
give it a couple weeks in primary after fermentation is complete before racking to secondary. then give it a couple weeks in secondary. Based on the style, I'm guessing that its dry hopped. don't add the hops until about 1 week before you are ready to bottle. cold crashing can also help with clarity. search this if you are interested for more information. when it comes time to bottle, move the secondary to its final resting place a couple hours (or more) ahead of time to let the gunk settle to the bottom again before racking to your bottling bucket.

good luck, and remember, good beer takes time. don't rush it

 

[Kickass]

1) how far off are we talking about? extract brews have a tendency to finish around 1.02 if that's where it is.

This is the only thing I disagree with dcp27 on. I’ve done many extract batches and the only one that finished in the 1.020 range was a Belgium Dark strong Ale that started life at 1.107.

Get your wort down to about 66 degrees F before pitching your yeast and try to mainting a temperature around 66 to 68 degrees throughout fermentation (check your yeast temp ranges to be sure, but try to keep it nearer the bottom of the range, than the top).

Am I missing something here as an all ale brewer? This seems to be very high on the fermentation temp and is probably where you’re getting that hot taste. Please someone correct me if I’m wrong.



How long are you allowing for fermentation? Lagers take a little long.

As far as clarity goes, on the batches I’ve not used clarifying agents it take about 8 months in the bottle with undisturbed yeast during the pour to result in a perfectly clear beer.

 

[HopsMan]

My primary fermenting has been 7-10 days, and the secondary was two weeks on the first batch, and almost a month on the second batch.

I'll have to be a little more patient with the clarity then, as my second batch has only been in the bottle for about a month.

I am seeing that my pitch temp and my fermenting temps were all pretty high. The recipe on the first batch called for a pitch temp of 78. Do these temps differ for styles of beer?

 

[dcp27]

For fermentation, I try to keep the temp around 68-70 degrees. I know with the Octoberfest, it may have been up to 72 at one point. I left both beers in the primary fermenter for, I believe, 8 days. Secondary on the light lager was exactly two weeks, and secondary on the Octoberfest was just shy of a month, mostly for lack of time to bottle it. I leave a good portion of the beer in the bottom after each racking, so I'm leaving out a lot of the crap on both.

I used irish moss on the first batch, but it was still rather cloudy, I did not on the second, so really, the cloudiness there is not so surprising.

As for the FG, I can't find my notes at the moment, mostly there was just little change, so it was around 1.015-1.016, if I remember correctly.

Thanks for the input!

This seems completely out of style for a lager. Typically you ferment lagers in the 50s, keep it in the primary for like 1-3 weeks, then lager below 50 for like 6 weeks.

 

[HopsMan]

Yeah, I'm not sure dcp27, I was just following what the instructions said!

But I'll make more of a point to keep the temps right for this next batch. Speaking of temperatures, if you need to ferment something in the 50's, do you end up just getting a fridge on a higher temp setting, and having your fermenter in that?

 

[Kickass]

You buy a temp control unit that allows your fridge to hold a slightly warmer constant temp. Most refridgerators are too cold for lagering temps. This is the reason majority of homebrewers stick to ales. This is also the reason your brews have turned out less than desireable

 

[dcp27]

Yeah, I'm not sure dcp27, I was just following what the instructions said!

But I'll make more of a point to keep the temps right for this next batch. Speaking of temperatures, if you need to ferment something in the 50's, do you end up just getting a fridge on a higher temp setting, and having your fermenter in that?

can't blame you for following instructions. that's odd that they would do that though. was it california lager (steam) or kolsch yeasts?

 

[fatmoose]

Based on the fact that your brewing a Hop Head DIPA kit I'm guessing your shopping at Midwest Brewing Supplies. I know that their kits have very basic instructions included, no real details on the fermentation process in the included instructions. Did you get a book of some sort yet? There's a lot of nuances that don't get covered in those kit instructions, the whole lagering process would be a good example. I've not considered
doing any lagers yet for this reason, we'll see how the hobby goes before I make that investment.

I've got the Liberty Cream Ale in my primary right now (first beer). I'm hoping to rack that off to secondary and brew the Hop Head this weekend :rockin: Let me know how yours goes.

 

[HopsMan]

So, little update.

The brewing went well, primary fermentation was excellent, vigorous and looked good over all. The OG was 1.069, and after fermentation, prior to secondary racking and the Gravity reading was 1.019, so that puts me at about 6.8%, which is close to my goal of 7%. I've decided to not add any dextrose, and just see what this first batch tastes like. The dry hopping has gone well, smells delicious and the small sample I tasted just prior to dry hopping made me want to bottle it right there and fridge it for a beer later that night, it was very good already. It has a little over a week left in the Secondary, and then bottling time.

How did yours go, fatmoose?

 

[fatmoose]

I just got this brewed last week so I don't have alot to report on it yet. I was quite happy by the taste of the hydrometer sample I took when I put it into the fermenter.

I had one "d'oh" kind of moment. I spent the first days after the brew checking for bubbling in the airlock, nothing. I assumed it was because we've had cool weather and the basement was in the low 60's, slow start to the fermentation process. Then yesterday I noticed the sanitizer level in the airlock was just below the line where the little cap sits, so there effectively was no airlock (and hence no bubbles)!! I think that this shouldn't prove to be much of an issue since CO2 should have been preventing anything from getting inside and it's not like there was much of an entry point anyway, so fingers crossed. Still no bubbles but fermentation may be done, I'm going to take a hydrometer sample tomorrow and see what's happening.

 

[HopsMan]

Hah, bummer! Hope it works out for you!

The samples so far have been awesome, I'm really looking forward to this one.

 

[fatmoose]

Update for you HopsMan, I pulled a hydrometer sample this morning (came in at 1.011 so it seems fermentation has been just fine) and it is fantastic. I'm really happy with how this is coming along and looking forward to how it's going to be after the dry hopping.

On a side note, there's something pretty fantastic about having a little bump of beer before 9:00AM on a Sunday. All in the name of science!