Batch #2 Bottling Problems

[Boshog]

My first batch came out awesome ! I was pumped and went with the same recipe for the second.

I when I bottle, I mix the priming sugar with boiled water. I add the sugar slowly to the bottling bucket stirring very gently as to not agitate, but ensure the sugar is evenly mixed with the 5 gallons.

The beer was in the bottle for 3 weeks sitting in the basement at about 70 F the entire time. What is strange is some of the bottles are great, meaning carbonated, and others completely flat. All the bottles were washed and heat sterilized together (22 oz) previously.

I'm stumped. My wife capped them as I filled, and they appear to be capped tightly. Any ideas? At this point, I'm real bummed as I had the neighbors over on New Years and gave them flat beer (mine was fine), and I've since brewed my 3rd batch and experienced my first boil over.

Help ! I need hope, ideas? Any feed back on why some bottles are flat and others good would be appreciated as it kills me to pour this flat stuff down the drain.

Pete

 

[DWavs]

I usually add the priming sugar (dissolved in warm water) to the bottling bucket first and rack the beer on top of it to ensure an even mixture.

 

[msa8967]

If you find that some of your bottles are not fully carbing you can always blend the beer from these bottles with a similar store bought beer to have carbonation in your serving glass. I once had a batch with uneven carbing because some of the bottles were stored too close to the basement wall so I just gently rotated/spun the bottles to remix the yeast at the bottom of the bottle and gave the beer 2 more weeks to carb up in a different spot in the basement.

 

[Ryush806]

If you mixed everything good before bottling there's only a few reaons why some wouldn't carbonate. You mentioned most of them above so we know it wasn't them. What's the temperature where you left them to carbonate? A low temperature leads to slower carbonation because the yeast don't eat the priming sugar as fast. It's possible the reason you have some carbonated and some not is because some where insulated from the cold by the other bottles. Just a thought. I'd make sure you keep the uncarbed bottles at room temperature for a week or two and see if that fixes it.

 

[Boshog]

Ok thanks, but they were all in cases together on the basement floor @ 65-70 degrees for 3 weeks. Had towels over the cases too, so the temp should have been consistent.

 

[3PegBrew]

3 weeks is nothing really. As a brewer who was in that same situation about a year ago or more, I recommend tipping the bottles upside down a few times very slowly in order to mix the yeasties in the bottom. When you see them resuspended do as the one dude said about room temp. Take them out of your basement for a couple of weeks. Some beer yeast is not evenly distributed when bottling and takes a bit longer to do its magic. If you want to pass time, brew some more beer

 

[Unibrow]

Also - some of the bottles could have been improperly capped. I use a wing capper, and it's very reliable but I'll usually get 1 or 2 bottles per batch that didn't seal perfectly. It's always Heineken or Corona bottles when that does happen...brown bottles with the large lip under the top never have that problem.

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

Do as 3pegbrew recommended. Then move them around. The uncarbed ones may be the ones against an exterior wall and therefore colder. I would wager they will all carb up. As revvy has posted so many time 3 weeks is a MINIMUM.

 

[unionrdr]

It sounded like you racked the beer to the bottling bucket,then added the priming solution. I rack a few inches of beer into the bucket,then slowly pour in the priming solution into the surface. When done racking,slowly,gently stir to be sure it's mixed evenly. I think the swirl isn't always enough.

 

[Revvy]

3 weeks is nothing really. As a brewer who was in that same situation about a year ago or more, I recommend tipping the bottles upside down a few times very slowly in order to mix the yeasties in the bottom. When you see them resuspended do as the one dude said about room temp. Take them out of your basement for a couple of weeks. Some beer yeast is not evenly distributed when bottling and takes a bit longer to do its magic. If you want to pass time, brew some more beer

This is more than likely the right answer.

Give it another week. You may JUST be at the point where the bottles are starting to carb, but everything's not quite up to speed yet. Since every bottle is it's own microcosm they don't all necessarily come up at exactly the same moment. And 3 weeks at 70 degrees tends to be the minimum most beers take...You're probably just on the cusp of them carbing up.

Had you waited another week or so, they would more than likely all reached carb level by then, and you never would have noticed.

Personally I think the idea of needed to extra stir priming sugar is bunk.....The movement of racking 5 gallons of beer onto 2 little cups or priming solution is going to mix it up fine on it's own.....

 

[phenry]

Time is usually the silver bullet in carbonation problems. I had a brown ale that took 7 weeks to reach acceptable carbonation levels, and it was a relatively low gravity beer. The bottles had barely any sediment (my first experience with an S-04 yeast cake) so I'm just guessing there was barely any yeast to get the job done, hence taking almost 2 months.

I have a chocolate stout that has the same problem, I'm on week 6 right now and it's just getting to the point where it's not flat. It tastes delicious, but if it means better beer, I'll wait another month before even trying to open another.

All the rest of my batches are just about fully carbonated after the prescribed 3 weeks, so I'm not really sure why these two are acting up. Yeast tend to not understand English too well, so there's really not much I can do other than wait.

 

[unionrdr]

@ revvy-I thought the same thing,but still get some uneven carbing. And I keep them in boxes in the comp room,with the rest of my brewing stuff. And against an inside wall. I didn't gently stir on some batches,& got some uneven carbing. Thought maybe that was it? Not entirely sure...

 

[3PegBrew]

This is more than likely the right answer.

Give it another week. You may JUST be at the point where the bottles are starting to carb, but everything's not quite up to speed yet. Since every bottle is it's own microcosm they don't all necessarily come up at exactly the same moment. And 3 weeks at 70 degrees tends to be the minimum most beers take...You're probably just on the cusp of them carbing up.

Had you waited another week or so, they would more than likely all reached carb level by then, and you never would have noticed.

Personally I think the idea of needed to extra stir priming sugar is bunk.....The movement of racking 5 gallons of beer onto 2 little cups or priming solution is going to mix it up fine on it's own.....

Thanks Revvy! Your many posts of wisdom inspired my answer to appear.

 

[Boshog]

Well, I took them off the floor after turning them. They should be 3-5 degrees warmer on the table down there. My fingers are crossed!

Thx
Pete

 

[venquessa]

Does carbing take that long? Oh.

I had an odd thing were the first bottle I opened, after like 3 days, fizzed away, poured with a head and left head trails down the glass. It was yeastie as hell, but it had fizz.

Second bottle and every bottle since has been, nearly flat, some better than others.

It is still only just over a week old and I've sampled about (hic) 5 bottles now. I realise I under primed them, but that first bottle was fine, so I'm confused.

Sorry to thread hijack, but will stirring up the sediment help force the yesties to have another go at making CO2 or is it a lost cause if it doesn't carb? Can you add more sugar and mix? Anything else to do to save flat beer?

 

[Boshog]

Hey, at least I waited 3 weeks !!

 

[venquessa]

Hey, at least I waited 3 weeks !!

What can I say, I'm experimenting. There's plenty of the beer can make it to 3 weeks!

 

[Revvy]

Does carbing take that long?

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.


Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer. But if a beer's not ready yet, or seems low carbed, and you added the right amount of sugar to it, then it's not stalled, it's just not time yet.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

If a beer isn't carbed by "x number of weeks" you just have to give them more time. If you added your sugar, then the beer will carb up eventually, it's really a foolroof process. All beers will carb up eventually. A lot of new brewers think they have to "troubleshoot" a bottling issue, when there really is none, the beer knows how to carb itself. In fact if you run beersmiths carbing calculator, some lower grav beers don't even require additional sugar to reach their minimum level of carbonation. Just time.

I've carbed hundreds of gallons of beer, and never had a beer that wasn't carbed, or under carbed or anything of the sort (Except for a batch where I accidently mixed up lactose or Maltodextrine for priming sugar). Some took awhile, (as I said up to six months) but they ALL eventually carbed.

I don't believe there are ANY carbing problems (besides the rare capper that maybe puts a bad seal on a bottle, or tired yeast in a HIGH gravity beer) that isn't simple impatience.

As I said in my bottling blog, it's really a fool proof process, you add sugar, keep the beer above 70 and wait..

I had an odd thing were the first bottle I opened, after like 3 days, fizzed away, poured with a head and left head trails down the glass. It was yeastie as hell, but it had fizz.

Second bottle and every bottle since has been, nearly flat, some better than others.

This video explains why your few days old in bottles fizzed, but weren't carbed. Poindexter sacrificed his beer, so we don't have to.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlBlnTfZ2iw]time lapse carbonation - YouTube[/ame]

It is still only just over a week old and I've sampled about (hic) 5 bottles now. I realise I under primed them, but that first bottle was fine, so I'm confused.

Sorry to thread hijack, but will stirring up the sediment help force the yesties to have another go at making CO2 or is it a lost cause if it doesn't carb? Can you add more sugar and mix? Anything else to do to save flat beer?

You don't have to do anything to "save" your beer. There's nothing wrong, except that you're impatient....

Just make sure they're above 70, and leave them be for at least 2 more weeks, if not more...

Like I said, it's foolproof...

 

[Boshog]

Ok thanks I'll follow your advice.

I was frustrated as I followed the same process/conditions as awesome batch #1.

It's a light ale (Midwest Sup. Liberty Cream Ale).

 

[Petho]

I used to have the exact problem. I had troubles keeping the carbonation consistent and it drove me batty until I had a batch with a few bottle bombs and I gave up and went to kegging. Ultimately, I got tired of the whole bottling nightmare.

 

[Boshog]

Well, I like my bottles so I want to get this figured out. 2 weeks and counting!

 

[Revvy]

Well, I like my bottles so I want to get this figured out. 2 weeks and counting!

Yeah, it's inevitable on here, whenever someone has a question about BOTTLING, someone feels the need to proselytize about kegging. It would be nice just for once to have a thread where folks wouldn't do it. It's not like we don't know kegs exist or something, the name of this section of the forum has BOTH in the title after all. I've yet to see a question about bottling where the word the word Keg is actually contributing to the thread.

It's really not hard, the biggest thing with bottle conditioning is patience.

 

[Boshog]

Thanks man. Go T-Bo!!

 

[Unibrow]

TEBOW!!! Shut big ben DOWN

 

[Boshog]

Yaaaaa!

 

[Petho]

I have noticed that brewing is a process. You start with a Mr. Beer kit and move to extract brewing and then ultimately all grain brewing. Moving from bottling to kegging is part of that process for many. After the 20th bottling day you hit the wall and look for a better way. Personally, I don't care if he kegs or not, I'm just giving him a glimpse of his future.

 

[Revvy]

I have noticed that brewing is a process. You start with a Mr. Beer kit and move to extract brewing and then ultimately all grain brewing. Moving from bottling to kegging is part of that process for many. After the 20th bottling day you hit the wall and look for a better way. Personally, I don't care if he kegs or not, I'm just giving him a glimpse of his future.

This is utter bull**** of the highest order. I've been bottling for years and don't forsee kegging any time soon.

Just like plenty of folks CHOOSE to brew extract for the rest of their brewing lives, or shoose to stick to their mr beer kit. It's all about choice, nothing else.

A plenty of folks CHOOSE to bottle.


Besides, like I said, I'm sure he's aware of this thing called a keg, and doesn't need to be told about it, unless he ASKS about....The question wasn't "what is this big metal thing folks who can't handle a simple act like bottling use?"

Think about it this way, YOU are posting asking for help about kegging, and some doofus posts "well you know if you bottled you wouldn't have this problem." WOuldn't you get annoyed if someone did that? Especially all the time?

Bottlers have a brains...I'm sure if we wanted information about kegging, we'd be fully capable of either looking it up or SPECIFICALLY asking for info on it.

 

[unionrdr]

I've got the bottling process to the point where it's comfortable,easy,& relatively quick. Kinda pleasant when you get it down cold. I just happen to like the natural carbing/conditioning process. I have no particular need to play bartender. Too much added cleaning,sanitizing,& expense for me. Just more mechanizations to take up space & worry about.

 

[Stauffbier]

Ok thanks I'll follow your advice.

I was frustrated as I followed the same process/conditions as awesome batch #1.

It's a light ale (Midwest Sup. Liberty Cream Ale).

I'm actually drinking one of Midwest's liberty cream ales as I read this.. Don't worry, it will carb up. Just give it time and warm it up.. Bottling is funny like that. I have a belgian wit that took 6 weeks sitting right next to my liberty cream which only took 2 weeks.. go figure!

 

[Petho]

This is utter bull**** of the highest order. I've been bottling for years and don't forsee kegging any time soon.

I was just giving my opinion, he can ignore it as he wishes. This is a forum full of opinions, I wish I had a dollar for every time I have read RDWHAHB. Its way overused but I don't see you exploding over that?
If you can't handle repetition or opinions you are probably in the wrong place.