basic water adjustments - low in calcium, high in bicarbonates

[tomaso]

I'm new to the subject of water chemistry so I'm sure my understanding is flawed somehow. I got my first introduction from this BYO article...
https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1493-the-power-of-ph

I use bottled spring water that is low in calcium (see picture; mine is the one on the left) with 43,2mg/l but very high in bicarbonates with 167 mg/l (at least as far as I understand).

What I find strange is that I thought Calcium lowers the ph and I have little calcium and bicarbonates increase the ph and I have loads of them so that makes me think I should have a too high ph while mine seems to be the opposite....

When measuring my mash ph with strips as far as I can tell the ph is at about just below 5 measured at mash temp so with some correction I guess my ph is just in or a bit below the acceptable range of 5.2 - 5.8.

While half of my beers turn out fine, the other half has a certain astringency /acidity to it that I now suspect to possibly be caused by the low mash PH and maybe not enough calcium.
So I would like to try to raise the mash ph (And maybe get more calcium into it) and see if my beer turns out maltier/rounder/less astringent.

So my question is first of all what can/should I add to my water? Gypsum maybe to increase the calcium but then the mash ph might go down even further. And baking soda to increase the ph but what about the bicarbonates?

Well, I'm sure some of you have some brilliant advice for me, Thanks already!

 

[mabrungard]

Unfortunately, paper pH strips are notorious for misreporting the actual pH in wort. There are too many interfering and confounding conditions for them to work well. Plastic strips are a little better, but not much. Strips do not work well in the low ionic strength of wort.

Given your water conditions, it is highly unlikely that your mash pH's have been too low. Even with a very dark beer, the pH is still likely to be too high. I recommend you review the Water Knowledge page on the Bru'n Water website to gain a bit more guidance than what you found on BYO. Brewing water chemistry can be complicated, but after you understand a couple of concepts, it can be fairly easy and the improvement in your beers should be notable.

 

[tomaso]

Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely check out your site and get an accurate PH meter.
So since it's quite likely that my ph is rather too high than too low, can I deduce from this that the slight astringency /acidity problem that I have with some beers comes from a different cause than Ph and therefore not from the water?

Oh, and in the meantime, what would be a quick fix for the low calcium, high bicarbonate problem be? Add gypsum or similar for more calcium but how to get down the bicarbonates?

Off to explore another part of this malty universe!
Thanks a lot

 

[mchrispen]

Gypsum and Calcium Chloride will add calcium and either sulfate or chloride and help to lower mash pH some. Tools like Bru'n Water will help you shape that profile for specific beer styles AND manage the alkalinity of your water (mostly bicarbonate by your post) with acid (lactic or phosphoric usually). I highly recommend exploring the water chemistry side of this hobby - it has tremendously helped my beer move from blah to pretty good.

Remember to focus on mash pH and not the water pH (except for sparge water). It is the buffering brought by the carbonate and bicarbonate content of the water that fights the mash pH from lowering into the butter zone.

 

[tomaso]

I highly recommend exploring the water chemistry side of this hobby - it has tremendously helped my beer move from blah to pretty good.

I will definitely do that. Feels so nice when you suddenly discover a whole new side of something that you love to do and didn't know about before and it allows you to improve it.
Thanks!

 

[tomaso]

Was looking for PH meters but here in Spain it's difficult. Found this one from Brouwland.
What do you think about it?

https://www.brouwland.com/en/our-pr...t/d/ph-meter-phscan30-vinoferm-2#.VWLr__n5Q14

 

[GotPushrods]

The thing no one has mentioned... What makes you believe your calcium is too low? 43 ppm is plenty.

The alkalinity is the big concern and it's hard to imagine a grist that would result in a significantly low pH. The calcium is pretty far down the priority list.

 

[ajdelange]

Was looking for PH meters but here in Spain it's difficult. Found this one from Brouwland.
What do you think about it?

I don't know anything about it. I do note that the lit. describes it as 'Practical and precise'. This is very clever marketing as it is precise (0.01 pH) but not very accurate (0.05 pH). This makes me strongly suspect that it is unstable as in essence once it is calibrated there is no way for it to be this inaccurate unless the electrode voltage wanders off in a short period of time. There are other meters that sell for the equivalent of € 85,00 in the States (Omega, Hach, Milwaukee) that are stable but that is little comfort to you if they are not available at comparable price overseas.

 

[tomaso]

I don't know anything about it. I do note that the lit. describes it as 'Practical and precise'. This is very clever marketing as it is precise (0.01 pH) but not very accurate (0.05 pH). This makes me strongly suspect that it is unstable as in essence once it is calibrated there is no way for it to be this inaccurate unless the electrode voltage wanders off in a short period of time. There are other meters that sell for the equivalent of € 85,00 in the States (Omega, Hach, Milwaukee) that are stable but that is little comfort to you if they are not available at comparable price overseas.

Thanks for the advice! I'll skip on that one then and maybe look for one on amazon.... think I've seen Milwaukee there...

 

[cooper]

I'm new to the subject of water chemistry so I'm sure my understanding is flawed somehow. I got my first introduction from this BYO article...
https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1493-the-power-of-ph

I use bottled spring water that is low in calcium (see picture; mine is the one on the left) with 43,2mg/l but very high in bicarbonates with 167 mg/l (at least as far as I understand).

What I find strange is that I thought Calcium lowers the ph and I have little calcium and bicarbonates increase the ph and I have loads of them so that makes me think I should have a too high ph while mine seems to be the opposite....

When measuring my mash ph with strips as far as I can tell the ph is at about just below 5 measured at mash temp so with some correction I guess my ph is just in or a bit below the acceptable range of 5.2 - 5.8.

While half of my beers turn out fine, the other half has a certain astringency /acidity to it that I now suspect to possibly be caused by the low mash PH and maybe not enough calcium.
So I would like to try to raise the mash ph (And maybe get more calcium into it) and see if my beer turns out maltier/rounder/less astringent.

So my question is first of all what can/should I add to my water? Gypsum maybe to increase the calcium but then the mash ph might go down even further. And baking soda to increase the ph but what about the bicarbonates?

Well, I'm sure some of you have some brilliant advice for me, Thanks already!

Which half turn out fine and which ones do you notice more astringency in?

I like to use very soft water and adjust all of my water to a PH of 5.5 with phosphoric acid in the HLT and then add my calcium in the form on CaCL to get my Ca where it needs to be in the mash or kettle and I typically only use CaCL. I've never felt the need for more hop punch in any of my brews to justify using Gypsum and I don't like to add anything that I don't absolutely need in the beer.

If I'm brewing a dark beer I add those grains at vorlauf (if possible) so I only have to adjust my mash one way.

If you have carbonate water, you're probably getting better results with your darker beers as the darker grains will help to pull the PH down to a more acceptable level.