Barley Wine Re-Pitch

[wshinn2]

A group of us in the local homebrew club are brewing separate 5 gallon batches of barley wine, all using the same recipe, to be aged in a 55 gallon whiskey barrel.

I brewed three weeks ago starting with an O.G. of 1.119, and pitched WLP-007 from an active 2.1 liter starter in an oxygenated (2 lpm for 2 min) 64 degree wort.

I saw active fermentation in about 6 hours, turning to an almost violent fermentation within 18 hours. After two days of controlled fermentation at 64F, I let the wort self-rise to 68F and held until fermentation slowed (about 11 days), removed the blow-off tube and put in an "S" type air-lock.

I checked the S.G. this morning (22 days of fermentation) and I am at 1.040, which is roughly 10.3% ABV.

I looked at the White Labs website and they give an alcohol tolerance of 8 to 12% for WLP007, while other websites list the tolerance at 10%.

I would like to dry-out by adding a second pitch of Montrachet wine yeast. Theoretically, with a good fermentation, it would take the work down to 1.012 S.G., which is fine with me.

I have never brewed a barley wine before. My concern is that the wine yeast could restart fermentation in the larger 55 gallon barrel batch, once it all combined together, start an active fermentation and/or dry out the overall batch.

Do any of you have had experience with a second pitch and/or the effects of wine yeast in a combined batch? If so, please... your input and thoughts are welcome.

 

[cswis86]

I've never used a wine yeast to dry a beer out but I have re-pitched more healthy beer yeast with additional nutrients to help finish up a high gravity beer. Instead of adding wine yeast I'd suggest getting a secondary beer yeast that has higher alcohol tolerance and add it to your beer to finish up fermentation. WLP090 is a favorite of mine with high attenuation and high alcohol tolerance. It's also very clean and shouldn't change your flavor profile.

 

[Fathand]

You could also look into using CBC-1 yeast.

 

[wshinn2]

So this morning, I'm thinking I'm at 1.040 and would like to get another few gravity points fermented out of solution. So I start thinking about a second pitch, but with no oxygenation of the wort.

I ended up rehydrating and pitching a 11.5 gram package of Safale US-05 (high cell count, oxygenation not mandatory) and then rousing the floculated WLP-007 with a handle of a sanitized stainless stir paddle. It is working; as I have seen renewed airlock activity, which is speeding up as the day progresses, but I am still keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[RevKev]

Champagne yeast has been a tip from a few HB'ers that have been around, I personally wouldn't mess with wine yeast besides the aforementioned but hopefully S05 will do the trick but I was just wondering what you mash temp was also?

 

[JonM]

Do you have time to brew a simple cream ale or something like that? If so, you can let the cream ale ferment out and then put the barleywine on its yeast cake. That seems to be the most foolproof way of unsticking a stuck fermentation.

 

[cswis86]

Glad to hear the US-05 is working! I think the FG of 1.012 you're hoping for isn't reasonable though. Given your OG I think that an FG of 1.020-1.030 would be good.

 

[wshinn2]

RevKev: My mash was 148F for 90 minutes. I have a RIMS system. In addition to the RTD in the tube, which the PID uses to control the wort temp, I have a second "process thermometer" in the line where the wort re-enters the mash. It's a RTD calibrated sensor, so I just adjust the PID controller to give me 148 entering the mash tun.

 

[wshinn2]

Do you have time to brew a simple cream ale or something like that? If so, you can let the cream ale ferment out and then put the barleywine on its yeast cake. That seems to be the most foolproof way of unsticking a stuck fermentation.

That's a very good suggestion. It sounds like a massive amount of yeast can help counter the high alcohol content in the wort. I'm dealing with yeasts that are at best alcohol tolerant to 12%, so I would be tickled if it finished somewhere between 1.028 to 1.035.

Now that I've pitched the -05, I'm going to hold out for a few more days. I checked this afternoon and it looks like the SG is about 1.039... only about a point lower. Also, the airlock activity has slowed significantly. It doesn't look like the Safale 05 is very happy bathing in a solution of approximately 10.6% alcohol. I hope it can squeeze it down at least 4 more gravity points!! I have my fingers crossed!!

 

[RevKev]

Hmm. No problem with long chain sugars from your information.

I know Scottish ale has a high high tolerance and is a good repitch but throwing anything in at this point will be fruitless, or I hope I am wrong. Transferring onto an active yeast cake is the best option. But growing a new starter with your yeast you choose and 'feeding' it your 10.4% brew to normalize it little by little then repitching it may work. Not sure if that was an option you ever read of?

 

[wshinn2]

You could also look into using CBC-1 yeast.

I wasn't familiar with this Landstar yeast and just looked it up. It does sound like a good possibility for what I am wanting to do. My only concern is it drying out the barleywine too much?? At most, I am looking for about 12% or an SG of 1.028; i.e., from an OG of 1.119.

 

[wshinn2]

Glad to hear the US-05 is working! I think the FG of 1.012 you're hoping for isn't reasonable though. Given your OG I think that an FG of 1.020-1.030 would be good.

I totally agree. If I can finish anywhere near a 1.030, that's about all I could expect and I would be happy with it. I'm hoping to finish somewhere between 1.028 to 1.035... or about 11 to 12% ABV.

 

[JonM]

That's a very good suggestion. It sounds like a massive amount of yeast can help counter the high alcohol content in the wort. I'm dealing with yeasts that are at best alcohol tolerant to 12%, so I would be tickled if it finished somewhere between 1.028 to 1.035.

Now that I've pitched the -05, I'm going to hold out for a few more days. I checked this afternoon and it looks like the SG is about 1.039... only about a point lower. Also, the airlock activity has slowed significantly. It doesn't look like the Safale 05 is very happy bathing in a solution of approximately 10.6% alcohol. I hope it can squeeze it down at least 4 more gravity points!! I have my fingers crossed!!

If you don't mind a chance for some saison-y esters, try putting the stuck beer on a yeast cake of 3711. Man, that stuff is a monster and it'll ferment anything.