Barley Crusher mill is dead - going back to LWBS mill

[blizz81]

Is gun oil food grade?

I've always used some type of cooking oil.

Cooking oil I guarantee you will gunk up and cause more problems than it solves.


Personally, I wouldn't go spraying gun oil on my sandwich...but I'm guessing if I did, it would take a lot of sandwiches to kill me, and in the case of the BC, I only use it on the portion of the shaft that spends its life sitting in the sleeve. Not like you're lubing the rollers or anything.


As I mentioned, I used some other type of grease originally...it was like six years ago so I'm not sure what, but I think some automotive grease I had laying around. I can tell you when I first tried the gun oil, after I reassembled and did a test crush, it felt a little different than it ever had. Very scientific..."it felt a little different". Was just the smoothest / easiest it had ever crushed anything though.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

To me this seems like one of those examples where you dont always get what you pay for.

Considering that my JSP was given to me, I think I did.

I think the guy bought a barley crusher.

 

[blizz81]

For me, the problem wasn't the rollers not spinning. They would spin just fine. The problem was the knurling had lost its "tooth" and wouldn't pull grain down into it anymore.

I think this here is the true endgame for the BC. Other problems you can address, but this seems to be where all BCs are destined to head eventually from the moment they are born. (Then as others mentioned, you send it in, hope you get the rollers replaced, and either rinse and repeat or sell it / move on to another mill)

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I say just send the mill in for repair.

Tell them your name is Kombat and you can even save on shipping cost.

 

[augiedoggy]

Thinking of getting this. Is it a good deal?
https://www.monsterbrewinghardware.com/store/pc/MM-3-1-2-Kit-15-OFF-3p164.htm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Rollers-m...037709?hash=item46476d04cd:g:md4AAOSw5dNWlPff look familiar?.... Your link is the better deal though because it likely has a warranty and the wooden base but missing the trim along the top to cover the metal hopper edge (which always comes off)
Makes me wonder is the monster mills are also of Chinese descent and these are factory direct knock offs by the oem manufacturers ... changing knobs is an old trick often used by generic suppliers... I see it on automotive paint guns a lot.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thinking of getting this. Is it a good deal?
https://www.monsterbrewinghardware.com/store/pc/MM-3-1-2-Kit-15-OFF-3p164.htm

Yes!

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Makes me wonder is the monster mills are also of Chinese descent... changing knobs is an old trick often used by generic suppliers... I see it on automotive paint guns a lot.

Would not surprise me in the least. I'd expect a deal was made with the manufacturer for reduced cost to allow knock-off. The HF model of manufacturing.

 

[blizz81]

Would not surprise me in the least. I'd expect a deal was made with the manufacturer for reduced cost to allow knock-off. The HF model of manufacturing.

You mean my tools weren't manufactured in authentic American cities such as Pittsburgh and Chicago?!?

 

[augiedoggy]

Would not surprise me in the least. I'd expect a deal was made with the manufacturer for reduced cost to allow knock-off. The HF model of manufacturing.

The chinese almost ALWAYS start selling thier products direct... if you look at just about any product for home brewing like the more beer and brew hardware and stout conicals you will find them on alibaba... More than a couple of my engineering customers have told me this is the biggest issue they have with taking their manufacturing to china... I say dont take it there and you wont have the issue... for what they make off manufacturing the stuff for the US companys who rebrand them I kinda dont blame them.

Funny story.. I paid like $40 for a Thorsen torque wrench once only to find the exact same chinese torque wrench only with a nice case at my harbor freight.. for $9.99... Took the Thorsen back to advance auto where I brought it.. its all brand marketing these days.. same cheap stuff at drastically different prices.

Sears even sells craftsman knock off tools as cheaper alternatives to their chinese made craftsmen line we all want to believe is the same quality tools that used to be made by husky in the states years ago... I'll pay the chinese prices for my chinese tools thank you. I just ordered a generic 5.5mm socket off ebay from china and what did I get? a craftsmen brand socket..

Sorry OP We took this off topic... I'll drop it..

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

... for what they make off manufacturing the stuff for the US companys who rebrand them I kinda dont blame them.

Funny story.. I paid like $40 for a Thorsen torque wrench once only to find the exact same chinese torque wrench only with a nice case at my harbor freight.. for $9.99... Took the Thorsen back to advance auto where I brought it.. its all brand marketing these days.. same cheap stuff at drastically different prices.

I agree. It makes perfect sense.

Look at just about anything HF sells that is woodworking related and I guarantee you there is a Rikon, Jet, or Grizzly twin. There are some differences. Cheaper switches, lower rated motors, rougher casting, etc.. People complain all the time about lack of parts availability on HF stuff. But those in the know research what brand they knocked off and every time they are able to find a part.

 

[augiedoggy]

I agree. It makes perfect sense.

Look at just about anything HF sells that is woodworking related and I guarantee you there is a Rikon, Jet, or Grizzly twin. There are some differences. Cheaper switches, lower rated motors, rougher casting, etc.. People complain all the time about lack of parts availability on HF stuff. But those in the know research what brand they knocked off and every time they are able to find a part.

look at Bru gear vs SSbrewtech... same conicals from the same factory only with minor alterations and sold by different "brand" distributors... Most people it sees dont want to see this... They want to believe they are engineered and built by and for SS brewtech exclusively... The truth is most likely a couple guys with some money got together and contacted a manufactuer via alibaba and placed a large order built to certian specs that were drawn up for them.. I bet eventually you WILL find these conical on alibaba for sale like all the other chinese made ones. I'm not knocking SS here but its the reality of it... They do a great job of supporting and keeping the quality control up. But they already lost exclusive rights to the design it seems.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

look at Bru gear vs SSbrewtech... same conicals from the same factory only with minor alterations and sold by different "brand" distributors... Most people it sees dont want to see this... They want to believe they are engineered and built by and for SS brewtech exclusively... The truth is most likely a couple guys with some money got together and contacted a manufactuer via alibaba and placed a large order built to certian specs that were drawn up for them.. I bet eventually you WILL find these conical on alibaba for sale like all the other chinese made ones. I'm not knocking SS here but its the reality of it... They do a great job of supporting and keeping the quality control up. But they already lost exclusive rights to the design it seems.

I have a good friend who works at a local "foundry". I say that tongue in cheek because it not "really" a foundry, it's a sales office.

He is always traveling to china and japan to inspect products prior to shipment.

And he is always complaining about how cut-throat negotiations are on manufacturing of new products with exclusive rights.

 

[Dixon9717]

Yes!

Thanks I thought so but just guessing.

 

[atoughram]

How do the Chinese use ball bearings ironically? As brakes?

A know-it-all in every crowd... CK here also - no maintenance required over and above normal cleaning.

 

[Nagorg]

If you were to buy a MM, would you go MM-2 or MM3? I'm personally considering the MM-2Pro for the larger rollers. I've been contemplating a Barley Crusher for the lower cost but this thread has helped me cast that notion out! Thanks for the thread m1k3!!!

 

[Yesfan]

If you were to buy a MM, would you go MM-2 or MM3? I'm personally considering the MM-2Pro for the larger rollers. I've been contemplating a Barley Crusher for the lower cost but this thread has helped me cast that notion out! Thanks for the thread m1k3!!!

I'd probably lean toward the bigger 2 roller with the hopper extension. I think that would be more than enough mill for me.

FWIW, I have a Barley Crusher. I'm still happy with mine and haven't had any issues, knock knock, but I know my next mill will be the Monster.

 

[Singletrack]

How do the Chinese use ball bearings ironically? As brakes?

A know-it-all in every crowd...

Ah, come on now. The irony was clear: cheapo Chinese unit uses more expensive ball bearings. Just a little fun. That's why the "." Sorry to detract from the dead seriousness of the topic at hand.

I have a BC that is due to fail at any time. I'll build my own out of rocks and sticks before I buy the Chinese knock-off.

 

[augiedoggy]

Ah, come on now. The irony was clear: cheapo Chinese unit uses more expensive ball bearings. Just a little fun. That's why the "." Sorry to detract from the dead seriousness of the topic at hand.

I have a BC that is due to fail at any time. I'll build my own out of rocks and sticks before I buy the Chinese knock-off.

ahh but theres more irony, Your barley crusher is still made of chinese parts... Im willing to bet, only the crappy rollers and wooden base are US made..Barley crushers owner admitted the mills were a mix of forrien and domestic parts.. and Im not sure who copied who really... The cereal killer came out later but the mills were already being sold direct from china before someone in the US started buying them in bulk (Likely on alibaba) and boxing them up as the cereal killer... the identical mills are still available without the CK branding. in any case these are better... reminds me of an article in popular mechanics about the knockoff iphones that where better than the apple originals.. (both made in china BTW)

I admire your american pride... I think its a bit unrealistic unless you make lots of money and do a lot of research before buying everything since many things simply arent made here anymore. even if they say they are.. for example..85% of the worlds automotive crank shafts are made in china now due to EPA regulations effecting costs... I bet you drive a really old car? Wait things like oil filled distributor coils are also no longer made outside of china.... I tried for a while and realized I was only hurting myself ... Now if anything I focus on NOT buying foreign products with American brand names when possible but rather from those manufacturers. To at least not line the pockets of the companies who have sold out and attempt to mislead people. Harley is becoming a good example of this... they still do final assembly and paint here but far more of the bike comes from overseas now than the US yet you would never know it from the marketing and price..

 

[Singletrack]

Yeah, I know it is a losing battle, but if a company does choose to mfr in a country with a democratic government (doesn't have to be U.S.), the last thing I want to do is support those who reverse engineer and steal it. This may not apply to BC. I'm learning about mills from all of you.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Yeah, I know it is a losing battle, but if a company does choose to mfr in a country with a democratic government (doesn't have to be U.S.), the last thing I want to do is support those who reverse engineer and steal it. This may not apply to BC. I'm learning about mills from all of you.

That is just it. They aren't "necessarily" reverse engineering anything. Often times it is a contract negotiation with the manufacturer to reduce lot costs. Exclusivity is expensive. Thus the more opportunity the manufacturer has to use the molds/tooling and set-up for a group of parts, the cheaper they become.

Look at automotive. It is pretty surprising how many parts are actually interchangeable between brands of cars.

Brand value comes by way of a refined finished product, a secondary means of quality control, and after purchase support.

 

[augiedoggy]

Yeah I overlooked that point in my rant above... Sometimes there are real advantages to buying through middlemen or a company who stands behind the stuff they are rebranding... And sometimes they actually spec their stuff to have higher standards than the stuff the factory might sell direct... This is where each thing sort of has to be researched to find out...

For example I ordered a cheap 5.5mm socket off of eBay from china to replace a worn-out one in my work toolbag and they sent me a craftsman brand one... I knew that craftsman tools are now made in China (Toby Kieth had that wrong in his made in America song BTW) but I didn't expect them to actually ship me one as a cheap generic.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Yeah I overlooked that point in my rant above... Sometimes there are real advantages to buying through middlemen or a company who stands behind the stuff they are rebranding... And sometimes they actually spec their stuff to have higher standards than the stuff the factory might sell direct... This is where each thing sort of has to be researched to find out...

For example I ordered a cheap 5.5mm socket off of eBay from china to replace a worn-out one in my work toolbag and they sent me a craftsman brand one... I knew that craftsman tools are now made in China (Toby Kieth had that wrong in his made in America song BTW) but I didn't expect them to actually ship me one as a cheap generic.

Another aspect of this is that, often times, "rebrands" such as chicago electric, pittsburg pneumatic, etc.. are simply pieces of a lot that did not make it through the final QC for a more renowned brand. No point in throwing it out, not going to recycle. Instead, paint it green, and sell it as on off-brand.

 

[Tegra]

Bought the similar Cereal Killer. Worked a couple times and then developed to dreaded "free spin" where the hopper was full and just the drive roller was spinning.

This was frustrating as I had to dump everything out of the hopper, get the second roller in jammed and hop it would catch. Each time some uncrushed grain would make it past.

I finally disassembled and cleaned out the works and it has worked ever since. Could be just the initial lube collecting dust and gumming up the works?

I figured that any single driven roller mill would hav the same issues and that the owner would have to get used to the tweaks to keep it running.

Is it possible that the rollers will become dull after crushing 500 pounds?

T

 

[bja]

Is it possible that the rollers will become dull after crushing 500 pounds?

T

I've had my BC for 7 or 8 years now and it has crushed about 10 sacks of grain per year, so close to 4000 lbs. Last fall is started having the problem of the passive roller not spinning. I was running it around 250 rpm and decided to speed it up a bit to about 350 rpm. That seemed to take care of the problem and it's been fine ever since.

 

[m1k3]

Thanks for the thread m1k3!!!

Funny. I didn't think this would be a good thread... in fact, i was kinda depressed at the "death" of the barley crusher when I wrote it.

Anyway, after cleaning the milling and sanding down the plates I just milled a 27.5# grain bill!

Here it is in POV on YouTube https://youtu.be/A8fICKxeeSo

I didn't edit it. You can see the disappointment when SHMBO spots me checking the color of my red/black IPA color against the sky. (yes, with a GoPro camera on my head!)

At any rate the malt is crushed so I guess I am brewing tomorrow!

thanks all!

 

[Nagorg]

Glad you were able to mill your grain. I should have my MM2-Pro this week! Hope your Barley Crusher keeps crushing!!

 

[augiedoggy]

I've had my BC for 7 or 8 years now and it has crushed about 10 sacks of grain per year, so close to 4000 lbs. Last fall is started having the problem of the passive roller not spinning. I was running it around 250 rpm and decided to speed it up a bit to about 350 rpm. That seemed to take care of the problem and it's been fine ever since.

I wonder what was made differently as far as the rollers 7 or 8 years ago because thats not the typical case for the BC rollers being sold in the last 4 years or so... Perhaps a different manufacturer or different process was used...
Still Thats good info... Yours is the most used with sucess Ive seen yet.

 

[IslandLizard]

Funny. I didn't think this would be a good thread... in fact, i was kinda depressed at the "death" of the barley crusher when I wrote it.

Anyway, after cleaning the milling and sanding down the plates I just milled a 27.5# grain bill!

Here it is in POV on YouTube https://youtu.be/A8fICKxeeSo

I didn't edit it. You can see the disappointment when SHMBO spots me checking the color of my red/black IPA color against the sky. (yes, with a GoPro camera on my head!)

At any rate the malt is crushed so I guess I am brewing tomorrow!

thanks all!

Can you tell us what you exactly sanded down and how your mod made the mill work again? Are you saying it mills great now?

Sorry if you already showed your mod somewhere in that video, I can't sit through all 18 minutes, it makes me feel like I drank 6 Barleywines.

 

[m1k3]

Can you tell us what you exactly sanded down and how your mod made the mill work again? Are you saying it mills great now?

Sorry if you already showed your mod somewhere in that video, I can't sit through all 18 minutes, it makes me feel like I drank 6 Barleywines.

I didn't take any video or pictures when I was working on my mill (I didn't expect that I would fix it!)

I think there were two issues that I resolved.

1) When I unchucked my drill I could see that it was not centered on the mill. In fact, when I turned the drill on with the mill loosened from the table top the whole mill would move up and down with each revolution.
I fixed this by shimming the mill up with some thin MDF that I had. (Cutting a small square with a whole and raising the mill. I had to get longer bolts that mount the mill to the table top.)

2) I sanded the end plates of the mill. There was vegetable oil / grain dust junk on the end plates and the ends of the rollers. A quick sanding with a palm sander took all of this off. I did not relube the mill this time.

Then I set the mill back to the factory gap that is marked on the mill. Just for the heck of it I put two used o-rings around the non-drive roller (they came off my Perlick faucet and seemed to fit).

After I finished milling the 27.5# grain bill the non-drive roller was not running anymore (when there was no grain being crushed). But it worked like a champ this time and did not stop once.

So, I guess the part that fixed it was sanding all the junk off the ends of the rollers and the end plates. Correcting the height of the mill probably didn't hurt but it was working that way for a couple years.

 

[IslandLizard]

^ OK I see. Mineral spirits would have cleaned the goo of too.

A small drop in the bearings should suffice, dabbing up the excess. Use more and it will come out. I never thought the o-rings had any use, as they tend to shred after a few uses. As long as the free roller spins freely when engaged by hand the mill should work fine. When my Monster Mill's free roller locks up, sometimes after a period of none-use, it won't mill anything either. They both need to roll to crush the grain.

The factory gap is just that, an arbitrary setting, surely not optimal for homebrewing and small kernel grain.

Agreed on aligning the drive train. I did the same by shimming and fastening the drill to the much larger baseboard I built. There is only an ever so slight wobble left, less than 1/16" of deviation.

Hope it keeps working for you as it should.