Barley Crusher issue...

[The Pol]

Still waiting on a response to my follow up email since they recieved the mill... hopefully it will be repaired or replaced soon, so I can get back to brewing.

 

[samc]

If I ran BC I would have sent you another BC and had you return yours. If the customer never sent back the old one then hit them with a credit card charge after a few weeks. But that is just the way I have run my business in the past.

 

[The Pol]

Well, I expect that I will hear something on Monday when business opens up again. I would like to get out a brew when I am home again next week... so we will see. Maybe I wil break out the rolling pin... HA

 

[BrewBeemer]

So, I have this Barley crusher that has crushed about 60 pounds of malt in its lifetime. Last night after milling my grain bill for my brew today, I noticed it didnt seem quiet as fine as it has in the past... not bad, but not the same.

So I check the gap... somehow it was opened up to about 1.038 from about 1.035.

Wow! At "1.035"" you can pass pin ball machine balls thru your mill, I couldn't let this one pass Pol.

I must ask what type of surface is the set screw contacting?
Flat surface with a flat surface at the end of the set screw or
is there a machined radius on the adjusting knob with a radiused
end of the set screw to match and contact against?

The MM-3 has a machined 0.0625" radius in the adjusting knob with a hand sanded
radius (looks like off a 1" wide belt sander) added to the thumb set screw to form a radiused end. The different radius plus not round on the thumb set screw caused the adjusting knobs to rotate when tightened down blowing the set gap all to hell. One egg shaped radius thumb screw had a radius larger than on the adjusting knob the other smaller which was less of a problem rotating the knob. The larger radius of the set screw as well not round would make the adjusting knob rotate when tightened every time no matter if swaped to the other end frame. I found that adding a piece of 0.250" brass stock machined with a 0.0625" radius end made on the lathe and
5/16" long with the other end flat only with a sight chamfer on the edge. The thumb set screws polished with a even and round radius that now contacts and rotates on these brass slugs with a small dab of grease preventing this rotating problem of the adjusting knob when tightened down and locking the set clearance.

On your BC if the adjusting knob to set screw are just two flat contact areas the use a brass slug with a flat at both ends. I still have 0.4375" (7/16") of thread for the locking thumb screw, plenty of threads to not worry about stripping out the aluminum threads.
I find the soft brass bites the hard stainless surface better than the stainless and steel thumb screw contact hence no pliers for extra tightening as per MM instructions besides I solved the set screw rotating the adjusting knob at the tightening set point. A lot less finger and thumb pressure is required on the locking thumb screw with the knob locked tight not rotating or slipping out of adjustment.

Maybe this fix I did to the MM-3 will apply to the BC mills also, your call.
This allowed for quick one shot adjustments or gap changes taking less than a minute
to reset both sides and recheck the new settings.
Sorry for the Novel, needed to reply here.

 

[The Pol]

Yah, typo... .035" gap, but you knew that.

Like I said before, there was no problem adjusting the mill before that drive roller pin popped out of the bushing, then it was just sloppy.

BC has the mill now, just waiting to hear back about it. Randy said that pin should never pop out, mine was really loose.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Sounds like your the lucky one to get a mill that accidently slipped past their quality control, that's what they told me about my MM3-2 and it cost way more.
Being that loose of a fit even with LocTite the shaft would not spin true and concentric with the roller causing a gap variation. Hope for a outright replacement roller not a patch job. I'm surprised the roller and shaft journal stubs were not machined as one piece to be dead nuts concentric, off center by only 0.0015" will cause a 0.003" clearance variation each half rotation. A flawed design unless pressed in under high pressure.

 

[The Pol]

I was pretty shocked to find that the roller shaft was not a part of the roller at all, but a pressed (in my case very loosely) pin that married the drive roller to the bushing.

Randy had mentioned that they would likely just replace the entire mill base, I may know more today.

I too dont understand how you can expect a precision fit when dealing with such tight tolerances, when you dont have the shaft as an inegral part of the roller. It seems to work for many BC users, unfortunately, once that pin wiggled out of the bushing to where I could get my fingers on it, I was able to pull it out and push it in with ease... that isnt tight enough.

 

[The Pol]

They are going to trash the "old" mill. The new mill was sent out today to replace it. I should be brewing again in a weeks time.

 

[Memorex88]

Good to hear they are replacing the whole unit, that's customer service!
I wish you could have taken pictures of this pin. After reading this thread, I took a look at mine and can't seem to find a pin anywhere.

 

[The Pol]

Good to hear they are replacing the whole unit, that's customer service!
I wish you could have taken pictures of this pin. After reading this thread, I took a look at mine and can't seem to find a pin anywhere.

Oh, it is easy to find. Look at your drive roller, look at the end oppostite the drive shaft. See that little "shaft" in side the bushing? That isnt a shaft... that is a little pin that marries the roller to the bushing, the shaft is not a part of the roller... it is "pressed" in. It is easy to see the pin, you just see it as a shaft...

 

[Memorex88]

OK I got it now. So wait a sec, this means that the other end... "drive shaft" is also press fit?

 

[The Pol]

OK I got it now. So wait a sec, this means that the other end... "drive shaft" is also press fit?

BINGO... "press" fit

The opposite end from the drive shaft, the pin is about 1/2" long, and only seats in the roller about 1/4"...

 

[BrewBeemer]

BINGO... "press" fit

The opposite end from the drive shaft, the pin is about 1/2" long, and only seats in the roller about 1/4"...

Pol; just reading about the journal only pressed in 1/4" is a red flag what the heck were they thinking besides saving on rod stock material with the minimum of drilling the roller only a 1/4" deep? That alone I would not buy that manufacture of mill besides the press fit for the drive end off a reduction pulley or drill motor, another location waiting to fail. Yes i'm blunt and to the point you know this from me. This is not what I would own for a mill with its bad more than one features. If one fell in my hands free as I would not spend a dollar on one first thing I would do is drill then ream all the roller ends deeper 3/4" minimum to 1" deep, cut and press in drill rod stock for journal material with a milled flat with stainless allen grub screws. Adjustment without rotating out of position already explained in a previous reply as it worked on my MM, it needed work looking at it in the box before it was removed.
It also sounds like your journal length for the bushing is only 1/4" long, WTF even the MM 3-2 has 1/2" end plates with 1/2" long bushings. By manufacture alone your only half the bearing support area, what diameter are these stub shafts? Without having many members with the same mill getting all over me on this reply I find this substandard and built cheap as possible to get a high production and profit. Again JMO's here.

 

[The Pol]

You know, the pressed pin is about 1/2" long as I recall... now the end is fairly thick, and the bushing plenty deep, but the pin itself pretty short, so it doesnt even extend all the way out through the bushing.

In hind sight, if I could go back, I wouldnt buy the BC just because of what I have seen as a result of this failure. I would buy a Monster Mill... they are more $$, but they are visibly built with more quality.

However, I bought the BC, they replaced this one... so I am not going to drop $$ on another mill. If this one has issues, then I will give in and buy a different mill.

Kudos to BC and Randy over there for replacing the mill body, but I am not a huge fan of the design now that I have seen the inner workings.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Your just one of how many BC mills out there I bet your not the only person to have a hands on failure.

Pol; you do recall the mess my MM3-2 was and it "passed inspection" by the manufacture at MM
as I posted pictures of this mess to Fred at MM, he wanted me to return it for a refund but money will not crack grain hence rebuilding it to my standards. I looked at all the other mill manufactures as this was a $246 investment. Wifey was not too happy at my "investment". Posted above were my improvements to it for a long trouble free life plus easy to readjust the clearances.

WTF do I know with my past background (you know what I have under my belt Pol), say no more.
I would use 0.015" thick nylon almost a fender washer added between the rollers and end plates with a tight clearance of 0.002" to allow the rollers to turn freely. Tight enough to retard dust, dirt and grain particles from entering into the oillite bushings and roller journals for the mills long bearing life. Again this is what I would do besides a quick and easy addition that will pay off in bushing and journal life. Stupid A&P and machine shop background coming out.

 

[The Pol]

I am no mechanic, but I would feel much better about the mill if the shaft and roller were milled from the same stock.

 

[BrewBeemer]

I just went back to the BC home site to refresh my memory. It shows their mill at only 1.250" diameter rollers which is way too small of a radius and high approach angle between rollers to my liking to pull grain into the mill without a lot of grinding away and slippage. The 5" wide length isn't a problem the diameter is in my thinking. Even mills at 1.500" diameter by MM is too small of a radius in my liking when looking to purchase a mill. This is why a MM3-2 purchase with the 2" diameter rollers allowing the lowest angle between rollers without going into a scratch built 6" diameter rollers by 6" long. My spinal surgery changed my standings and ideas to mill and lathe on this project with 8-12 months minimum on the mend without doing anything. Yup sucks as i'm active by nature. Boy did I learn about $245 spent with many problems with my mill, I feel your pain as I got a lemon also. See boss your not alone with a defective product, mine just cost more at time of purchase needing more hands on rebuilding to get it right.
Good part about BC it's coverered by a "lifetime" or when they close their doors which ever comes first.
Pol your green light went out before 8:45 PM PT, your bed time farther east?

 

[The Pol]

I just went back to the BC home site to refresh my memory. It shows their mill at only 1.250" diameter rollers which is way too small of a radius and high approach angle between rollers to my liking to pull grain into the mill without a lot of grinding away and slippage. The 5" wide length isn't a problem the diameter is in my thinking. Even mills at 1.500" diameter by MM is too small of a radius in my liking when looking to purchase a mill. This is why a MM3-2 purchase with the 2" diameter rollers allowing the lowest angle between rollers without going into a scratch built 6" diameter rollers by 6" long. My spinal surgery changed my standings and ideas to mill and lathe on this project with 8-12 months minimum on the mend without doing anything. Yup sucks as i'm active by nature. Boy did I learn about $245 spent with many problems with my mill, I feel your pain as I got a lemon also. See boss your not alone with a defective product, mine just cost more at time of purchase needing more hands on rebuilding to get it right.
Good part about BC it's coverered by a "lifetime" or when they close their doors which ever comes first.
Pol your green light went out before 8:45 PM PT, your bed time farther east?

I am on east coast time... and our 2 month old would only go to sleep tonight, if I let him fall asleep on my chest. Night all.

 

[JVD_X]

I had the same issue as Pol but Randy is standing behind his product and fixing it.

 

[The Pol]

I had the same issue as Pol but Randy is standing behind his product and fixing it.

Yah, Randy had no problem replacing the mill. He also inquired further about exactly what was happening with the mill when it failed. He seems geniunely interested in what is happening with his product.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Yah, Randy had no problem replacing the mill. He also inquired further about exactly what was happening with the mill when it failed. He seems geniunely interested in what is happening with his product.

Oops, this sounds like it wasn't put thru a long torture test talking a rack of 10 mills used hard as hell without any care to bring faults product failures to the surface and modified or corrected before selling them to the public. This or a wide quality control swing from a super good mill to a few sloppy built units being sold. It's all in how tight their quality control production tolerances are.
Would you fly in one of their mills if it had wings?

 

[bendavanza]

I would not fly in one of their (BC) mills but I have one and for the $ it is easy to use, improved my crush over the LHBS by a mile, which improved my efficiency, and was ready to go out of the box. It should last some time. If not, I'm glad to hear they are good with replacements. Maybe they will tweak their design as broken units start piling up. I understand brewmaster's warehouse uses one for their crush, so I'm sure they put it through it's paces. My friend's MM 3 roller is a tank, it weighs about 4 times the BC.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Would you fly in one of their mills if it had wings?

Apples and elephants imo. I'd hope they would put way more attention to detail in an aircraft than a Barley Crusher. It's a grain mill.

FWIW, I bought one earlier this year and have put about 300# through it. I re-adjusted the uneveness of the rollers I mentioned earlier in this thread and it went without a hitch. At .036" gap, at the end of sparging my spent grain is covered with almost fully intact husks (empty of course). That may be partially due to the malt conditioning.

 

[The Pol]

The mill has arrived, got it adjusted to .033" very easily. Hopefully this one is successful!

 

[Memorex88]

Good to hear it.