Banana wine won't clear

[erru9107]

Hey everyone!

I'm new here on the forum but I've been reading a lot and always found what I've been looking for. However, with my banana wine I've hit a roadblock and I could really use some help.

It's a banana wine made like any other basic fruit wine. Fruit, sugar, water, pectic enzyme, yeast nutriants and yeast. Eventually take out the fruit and rack off to secondary and let it do its thing until fermented dry. Potassium sorbate and campden, shake out the co2 and kieselsol+gelatin to clear.

Everything went smoothly and just as always up until clearing. After using the kieselsol and gelatin method like I always do, it made absolutely no difference what so ever. Read somewhere that you could sometimes need a double dose, said and done but to no use.

I then figured it might be a protein haze due to an instability after using the gelatin so I took two small samples. One I added some extra kieselsol since it has the opposite charge of gelatin hoping they would stick together and settle at the bottom, didn't work. The other I tried heating up to around 60 degrees Celsius to see if it would clear up, as I've read that protein haze usually clears up when heated and then reappear when cooled. But still no difference.

The next idea I had was that it was a starch haze so I added some alpha-amylaze to combat that. I followed the instructions and added enough to my batch and just let it sit and forgot about it for a couple of weeks. Came back yi check on it and nothing had changed what so ever.

Should also add that it's been sitting for about 3 months now after my last attempt to see if time would make a difference and still nothing.

I'm all out of ideas now... any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

 

[lumpher]

I can only think of 2 more things:

1: Have you mixed it with denatured alcohol and see if it looks powdery when you do? If not, you can try that. 1 part denatured alcohol to 4 parts wine. If it looks powdery, add a little more pectic enzyme.

2: Have you tasted it to see if it's spoiling? The haze could be biological.

 

[erru9107]

Yes, I've taste it and it's certainly not spoiled. It needs a little bit of backsweetening, but it's quite good.

I tested the other thing and no dice, looks just as liquidy as always.

I've been thinking that I might buy some bentonite and try that on a small sample in case it is a protein haze after all, cause that's the only thing I actually haven't treated the wine for yet. I just dud the "heat test" and I suppose that it is possible that it's a protein haze even if the test failed. The kieselsol test would probably just bind to the suspended gelatin due to its charge, but not treat a protein haze. I don't really have anything to lose by trying.

 

[Raptor99]

You could also try more time. I've had wines that take 5-6 months to clear.

Pectic enzyme works better at higher temperatures. If your wine making area is too cool, it will work very slowly. Below 20 degrees C it won't do much.

 

[erru9107]

I've tried adding some pectic enzyme to a small sample and placed it at around 25 C, no difference. I've ordered the bentonite so we'll see how it works when that arrives. Protein is like air said the only thing I haven't actually treated yet, so we'll see. If that doesn't work I'm just gonna have to leave it and forget about it for a few months and hope that time does its thing.

 

[Raptor99]

There is a test that you can do to determine whether the haze is pectin. Maybe someone else remembers how to do that.

Even at a warmer temperature, the pectic enzyme still might take several weeks to clear the wine.

...I'm just gonna have to leave it and forget about it for a few months and hope that time does its thing.

That sounds like a good idea.

 

[Erik the Awful]

Is it particulate or cloudiness? Banana is a pain to clear. I've used it in some of my wines, and I usually have to resort to screening the particulates, even after using pectic enzyme. The problem with screening later in fermentation is the aeration can spoil the wine. If it's particulate, I'd try screening it and hitting it with a light dose of campden tablets.

 

[erru9107]

I'd say it's more cloudiness.

I just received my pack of bentonite in the mail today so I'm doing a small scale test to see if that will do the trick. I sure hope so but we'll see I guess. I will report back in a couple of days when it has had a chance to do its thing.

 

[HBT_Admin]

I saw the title of this thread and wondered if you have had banana wine before. Or is this just a new venture in a new taste?

 

[erru9107]

It's my first time doing banana wine.

So, the bentonite doesn't seem to be doing anything at all. So there's nothing else but time now I guess.

 

[Erik the Awful]

Bentonite followed by sparkolloid is the magic 1-2 clarifying punch for me, but I've never made a solely banana wine. My "banana" wine I made a few years ago was 2/3 apple and 1/3 banana. I don't think I'd want to try just bananas.

 

[Raptor99]

I made banana-cranberry wine a few years ago. At the end of primary fermentation, I poured it through a large mesh bag to strain out some of the banana pulp. Then I gave it 6 months to clear. I added pectic enzyme at the beginning, but did not add any other clarifying agents.

 

[erru9107]

Yeah, so hopefully it's just a matter of time then before it clears up.

Just curious, we know that a pectic haze will clear up on its own given enough time. But is it the same for protein haze and starch haze? I think I read somewhere that of those would never clear on their own.

 

[Raptor99]

Just curious, we know that a pectic haze will clear up on its own given enough time. But is it the same for protein haze and starch haze? I think I read somewhere that of those would never clear on their own.

That is an important distinction. It depends on what is causing the haze. I think that there are ways of testing that. There is some good info here: https://homebrewanswers.com/clearing-hazy-cloudy-wine/ Please note that if you do the test for pectin haze, do NOT return the test sample to the carboy because methanol is poisonous.

I would wait for a while to see if it clears. Some types of haze can be cleared up in a few days by cold crashing.

 

[erru9107]

Reading that article, combined with all the things I've tried so far, unfortunately makes me think that it's probably a biological haze. I haven't tasted it in a while so maybe I should do that later on today. If it is biological, I'm not sure if it's worth keeping it and letting it take up a bucket or just dump it and start another batch...

 

[Rish]

haven't tasted it in a while

My thought is that if it tastes and smells good I sure wouldn't dump it; I'd keep it and drink it. I don't get too hung up on looks if I like the taste. Good luck!

 

[erru9107]

So I've now given it another month but nothing has happened, and now the taste has turned real bad. So if I had to guess, it was a biological haze because the wine was bad and destined for the drains.

 

[ICanSeeBeerlyNow]

In my experience banana wine which is my main wine only clears when there is absolutely nothing present in it. The smallest bit of bacteria or suspended solids will cloud it. And because its so sweet if you don't effectively kill all yeast even if it seems dry they will come back and haze your product.
I usually use double the recommended amount of potassium-sorbate and let it sit for a while before I back sweeten. Ive had yeast come back and cloud it up after like 2 months after PS no joke.