Bad tasting batches

[Brew-Jay]

Update. It has been a full week and there is still a layer of bubbles on the top that is decidedly NOT krauesen. I don't think it's an infection, though, either. I took a sample (SG 1.022!) and tasted it. The metallic flavor is still there. After reading the latest theories I am inclined to agree that it is my use of oxyclean on my aluminum kettle. Tonight I am going to boil water in it for an hour or so.

But now my question is this, has anyone ever had this same problem, and did boiling water solve it for you? I've ruined at least 4 batches, and now I'm thinking of dropping some serious coin on a SS kettle.

Thanks for all your help so far.

 

[yewtah-brewha]

dont use gypsum unless your testing the ph with a tester or ph strips.

 

[yewtah-brewha]

So I went ahead with brew day as planned last Wednesday. Now today I notice a foam on top of the beer that has been there on some of my previous batches. It is not like the typical krauesen that is mostly white with specks of tan colored yeast. It is completely light brown with a lot of small bubbles it it. I don't remember this problem occurring before I started having off flavors. Is this normal?



View attachment 163752

looks normal. do you use yeast starters or pitch dry? I started useing starters and will probaly continue to do so, I had a sour batch once and the only thing I could come up with was fermenting in my bottling bucket w/o sterilising the spigot, I now remove it disasemble it souk in 180-200 degree water for 5 minutes and then reasemble sanitise the bucket as normal, havn't had an issue since.

 

[Brew-Jay]

looks normal. do you use yeast starters or pitch dry? I started useing starters and will probaly continue to do so, I had a sour batch once and the only thing I could come up with was fermenting in my bottling bucket w/o sterilising the spigot, I now remove it disasemble it souk in 180-200 degree water for 5 minutes and then reasemble sanitise the bucket as normal, havn't had an issue since.

I almost always use a starter, but this time I just pitched a vial of WLP001. Normally, the krauesen will subside after 4 or 5 days, but lately I've been seeing this weird bubbly layer last for a couple of weeks. If I gently shake the carboy I see some of the stuff sink down into the beer. I've done about 17 batches and this weird bubbly stuff started right around the same time as the bad flavor (about 4 batches ago).

 

[Brew-Jay]

I'm boiling water in my kettle now. Is there any way to know if the kettle has been conditioned properly other than brewing another test batch? I think I will just do 2.5 gallon batches till I'm confident that the problem is silo lived.

 

[insanim8er]

I'm boiling water in my kettle now. Is there any way to know if the kettle has been conditioned properly other than brewing another test batch? I think I will just do 2.5 gallon batches till I'm confident that the problem is silo lived.

just make sure you have that oxide layer. Palmer has a second in his book about seasoning the pan in the oven at a low temp for a long time.

Also, If your counter flow chiller is aluminum and you use oxyclean on it, you might want to make sure it's taken care of too before running your wort through it.

 

[Brew-Jay]

just make sure you have that oxide layer. Palmer has a second in his book about seasoning the pan in the oven at a low temp for a long time.

Also, If your counter flow chiller is aluminum and you use oxyclean on it, you might want to make sure it's taken care of too before running your wort through it.

Counter flow is copper. But I made a copper immersion chiller just in case. I'm going to do a 3 gal trial run next week to see if boiling water in the kettle worked. I'm pretty much convinced that this is the problem.

 

[Brew-Jay]

The three gallon batch (APA) has finished fermentation. FG appears stable at 1.013 and the sample did NOT exhibit the metallic off flavor. I got kegging equipment for Christmas so I've used this batch as my first kegged beer. I will take another taste after a few days and see if it tastes right.

I'm also beginning to think that the long lasting bubbles on top may be a characteristic of WLP001. This time I just gently swirled the carboy a couple of times over a couple of days and the stuff settled out nicely. I've been using WLP001 almost exclusively for months now. I'll try WLP002 next and see if it does the same thing.

Thank you all for helping me through this. Fingers crossed that it is solved. I will give the definitive answer in a few days.

 

[rafaelpinto]

Why would the counter flow chiller induce that flavors?

 

[Brew-Jay]

Why would the counter flow chiller induce that flavors?

I don't think it did. But I wanted to eliminate that as a potential cause anyway. I suppose the inside could have been filthy even though I try to keep it as clean as possible. There's no telling what's inside those 20 feet of copper. I used it on this last batch, though. I think the problem was that the oxide layer of my aluminum kettle was removed by cleaning it with oxy-clean.

 

[insanim8er]

Thank you all for helping me through this. Fingers crossed that it is solved. I will give the definitive answer in a few days.

No prob. Glad it's showing signs of promise. I think you'll be golden. Congrats on the kegging gear. I just got 4 ventamatic faucets. Now I can finish my kegerator and portable kegerator builds!

Why would the counter flow chiller induce that flavors?

It's not the chillers it's the aluminum brew kettle being cleaned with oxyclean that was the issue. Since he cleans all his gear with oxyclean, I was pointing out the need to be careful with the chiller if it was aluminum. But his chiller isn't aluminum.

 

[jonmohno]

High iron levels in water and poorly stored malts can contribute to a metallicy taste. Aluminmun pots usually wont cause metallic flavors unless brewing water ph is greater than 9(unlikley). Protective oxides of aluminum can be enhanced by heating the clean pot in a dry oven at 350 deg for 6 hrs.. Metallic flavors are usually caused by unprotected metals disolving into the wort. Im not shure where oxyclean fits in here. But you might need to heat the aluminum pot. Im not shure about the residue of oxyclean on it though. You may find it helpfull to read John Palmers How to brew online in section 22 Is my beer ruined? I got this info out of the book. Is it possible your tasting Medicinal -bandaid as well or instead? That can be cholorephenals its caused from cholorined based sanitizers but rinsing those with boiled water can prevent that. It could be caused by the yeast also.

 

[golfish67]

I had the same issue with a California common. Very interested in the conclusion. I thought mine was from the water. But I also clean my aluminum pot with oxyclean and it has only happened once. I have 2 batches fermenting now that I have brewed since. We'll see how they turnout.

 

[Brew-Jay]

I originally thought it was water related, but I switched from filtered hose water back to water from my fridge and the problem did not go away. I suppose it could be chloramines in the local water supply, but I have had a bunch of good batches too. Why would it change all of a sudden. If this batch doesn't turn out then I may try using all distilled water.

 

[insanim8er]

I originally thought it was water related, but I switched from filtered hose water back to water from my fridge and the problem did not go away. I suppose it could be chloramines in the local water supply, but I have had a bunch of good batches too. Why would it change all of a sudden. If this batch doesn't turn out then I may try using all distilled water.

A Campden tab will remove chloramine in 20 gal of water

 

[Greg1820]

three suggestions

1. water is your main ingredient. If you are on a well, boil all the water 20 min the day before. Not only will this kill any bacteria, but it will drop some of the calcium. To isolate this problem, buy spring water at the grocery store for the next batch.

2. cleanliness. Simplify your process. The chiller could certainly be an issue as could be your fermentation vessels. Both are hard to clean - especially for a newer brewer. After trying a test batch with store-bought water, don't use the chiller for the 2nd batch. Just cool it in the sink using 2-3 changes of cold water. If you have snow, add it to the water. Just keep the lid on it to maintain sterility. If you feel that you must stir the wort while chilling, only do it with a sterile metal spoon. Buy bucket-type fermentation vessels - very easy to clean.

3. chemicals. Forget the additives until you have fixed this problem. Try iodine-based sanitizers.

Good luck!
Greg

 

[Brew-Jay]

Ready for the verdict?

My APA has been kegged for a few days now, and I can confidently say that the off flavor is GONE! Really, the only thing I changed for this last brew was to boil water in the kettle for an hour to replace the oxide layer. Actually, I boiled water for an hour, then cleaned the inside of the kettle with soapy water, rinsed, then boiled again and left it. There was definitely a hazy gray layer around the inside of the kettle and I didn't touch it before brewing.

I owe a big debt of gratitude to everyone who posted suggestions, especially insanim8ter and thadass. You guys were the ones who figured out that I removed the oxide layer on my aluminum pot. PSA to all of you who use aluminum kettles. It does a fine job, but do NOT clean with oxy-clean. If you do, then you really need to heat it or boil it.