Bad experience with Williams Brewing

[Evan!]

Actuary, I'm a bit surprised by the responses. And imo many of the responses you got illustrate why WB can send out old yeast and get away with it (even applauded it seems). Apparently some will settle for that kind of product. Suckers. Also, there are lots of lemmings out there who will read some responses and then just pile on and there is def some of that in this thread.

That "old yeast" is still within the date range, and they offered him a refund. I don't see how acknowledging that dry yeast, even far past its expiration date, performs great, makes one a "sucker", either. "That kind of product" is perfectly fine. As I said, if he uses it and it doesn't ferment, then he's got a beef, but the fact that he was offered a refund and still was not satisfied just goes to show that there's no pleasing some people. I've never used WB so I've got no dog in this fight, I just hate to see people who think that just because they're a customer, they should get whatever they want. Believe me, I've had my fair share of terrible customer experiences...as for the yeast thing, I once had a smackpack show up from AHS that was already swollen. I called and asked if they could send a replacement, and the girl said "the yeast is still fine, just go ahead and use it, and if it doesn't work, then we'll send a replacement". I did, and it was fine (I knew it would be).

And as others have said, it's actually still before the packaging expiration date. I could understand his beef a bit more if they were already passed expiration when they boxed them up. But as it stands, I think it's entirely acceptable to send out yeast that has not "expired" yet, unless you have made your intentions clear when ordering.

Think about it---what if I ordered 50 packets of yeast, and they were one year away from expiring? I'd never use 50 packets of dry yeast in a year...so would I also be justified in saying "man, by the time I get to using some of these, they'll be expired!"? No.

 

[Actuary]

Think about it---what if I ordered 50 packets of yeast, and they were one year away from expiring? I'd never use 50 packets of dry yeast in a year...so would I also be justified in saying "man, by the time I get to using some of these, they'll be expired!"? No.

50% of the remaining life of a perishable good is several orders of magnitude more reasonable than 5% of the remaining life.

Remaining life = time until expiration date in this case.

 

[llazy_llama]

Actuary, I'm a bit surprised by the responses. And imo many of the responses you got illustrate why WB can send out old yeast and get away with it (even applauded it seems).

Because 99% of us know that dried yeast past it's expiration date will be just fine?

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Think about it---what if I ordered 50 packets of yeast, and they were one year away from expiring? I'd never use 50 packets of dry yeast in a year...so would I also be justified in saying "man, by the time I get to using some of these, they'll be expired!"? No.

Totally different Evan. The stuff arrived 'almost' past expiration date. When you buy milk do you buy it one day before it expires? Would you be OK with a dairy supplier that sold you milk one day before it expires?

As I said...they are a company dealing in items that are perishable and where 'freshness counts'. It wasn't fresh or even reasonably close to it. Poor QC.

This whole arguement; "Well, technically it was still within the exp date." is bogus. You wouldn't buy milk or meat that way and you shouldn't have to settle for it with yeast either...or any other perishable product where freshness counts. It's just poor QC.

 

[HenryHill]

50% of the remaining life of a perishable good is several orders of magnitude more reasonable than 5% of the remaining life.

Remaining life = time until expiration date in this case.

You are not guaranteed to have 2 years of shelf life. They're only responsibility is to get it to you before the expiration. They offered a full refund and would cover shipping. You should still have the original shipping container.

Now, after 10 pages of people telling you to let it go, you are still arguing with them.

It may near the Time or some time after the Time, that you start to resemble a ******, and not a mere fool anymore.

 

[Brewer_Steve]

I would have been happy, they would have unloaded some old yeast at 50% of retail instead of dumping it in a month (hopefully the do toss it if it doesn't sell by then), and I give them another shot. Seemed like win-win to me.

Yes, what you proposed seems perfectly reasonable to you, and me, and probably a lot of other people, but it's the shop's prerogative to decide whether they want to strictly follow their return policy or to follow your suggested resolution. It's not your prerogative. It's theirs.

Who knows... maybe you were dealing with a low-level employee who doesn't have the authority to do anything but follow policy to the letter.

So, they won't resolve the situation like you've suggested. Oh well.
They've suggested another totally reasonable solution which you could follow if you choose. It is 100% your prerogative to return the yeast if you aren't satisfied.

IMO, you should do one of the following:
1) brew with the yeast, and perhaps post a little warning about asking about expiry dates before ordering.
2) return the yeast.

Personally, I would have been perturbed to receive that much yeast so close to expiry, but I think the store has offered you a perfectly reasonable way to resolve the problem. You seem to be pissed that the way the store chose to resolve the problem isn't the exact way that you would solve the problem.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Because 99% of us know that dried yeast past it's expiration date will be just fine?

I don't think this could be less relevant. It has an exp date and the yeast was not fresh.

 

[llazy_llama]

I don't think this could be less relevant. It has an exp date and the yeast was not fresh.

If all it takes to make you happy is an arbitrary set of numbers printed on the pack (since we've already established that the expiration date doesn't have any real effect on the contents of the package) just pencil in 9/09/2100 on the pack and be content.

 

[olllllo]

This thread has about 5% remaining life.

 

[mmb]

I imagine it was the refund half without returning product portion that threw up red flags. If it isn't in policy it won't happen for most online shops. The folks on the phone usually have no ability to go out of policy.

Maybe time to start looking at yeast washing?

 

[Evan!]

50% of the remaining life of a perishable good is several orders of magnitude more reasonable than 5% of the remaining life.

Remaining life = time until expiration date in this case.

I know, because once that expiry date passes, all those yeast instantly die.

 

[BlindLemonLars]

I would say that I am a bit surprised at the strong reaction to my OP. Oh well - it has been a good way to get involved in a new forum - I posted frequently on the brewboard but have been sitting on the sidelines here up till now.

I think the strong reaction is partially because we realize most of these online shops are actually rather small, "mom & pop" type operations. The type of business that already has a rather thin profit margin, and that can be grievously damaged by just a few angry reviews on a big brewing forum. Most of us have been REALLY happy with Williams, and we don't want them to suffer disproportionately over what seems to be a rather questionable complaint.

FWIW, I agree that they shouldn't be selling yeast that close to the expiration date, or they should be discounting it. Of course I'd never be buying it 30 packets at a time, so it wouldn't be that big a deal to me.

I also agree with the consensus here, that Williams offered a full refund, and that it's unreasonable to expect them to jump through additional hoops beyond their normal return policy. And I do appreciate the info about the yeast...should I need to start buying it in volume, I'll shop elsewhere! But I will continue to order from Williams, as I've been really happy with their service.

Cheers man, and welcome to the forum.

 

[carnevoodoo]

I also agree with the consensus here, that Williams offered a full refund

AND offered to pay for return shipping. They absolutely did their best to resolve the situation. They have company policies that they adhere to, and giving people money for no good reason isn't one of them. If businesses gave people half their money back evey time someone complained, everyone would start complaining. Not a way to run a business.

Silly them for trying to give you all your money back, allowing you to go spend it on yeast somewhere else. How dare they?

 

[Actuary]

If all it takes to make you happy is an arbitrary set of numbers printed on the pack (since we've already established that the expiration date doesn't have any real effect on the contents of the package) just pencil in 9/09/2100 on the pack and be content.

You can make beer with 50 billion yeast cells, and you can make beer with 150 billion. It is a bit foolish to assume those two options give you the same beer...so I am not sure why you feel the date is arbitrary.

 

[Malticulous]

This thread has about 5% remaining life.

Please kill this insanity.

 

[Actuary]

Most of us have been REALLY happy with Williams, and we don't want them to suffer disproportionately over what seems to be a rather questionable complaint.

Sure, which is why I openly stated their policy the entire time and allowed others to decide on their own, and also never asked anyone else to stop ordering from them.

 

[EvilTOJ]

I'd better throw out all these bottled waters in my basement. They expired in 2/2007. I'm lucky they haven't poisoned me yet.

 

[Actuary]

AND offered to pay for return shipping. They absolutely did their best to resolve the situation. They have company policies that they adhere to, and giving people money for no good reason isn't one of them. If businesses gave people half their money back evey time someone complained, everyone would start complaining. Not a way to run a business.

Silly them for trying to give you all your money back, allowing you to go spend it on yeast somewhere else. How dare they?

Do you have some sort of stake in WB? I am trying to understand the reason behind the tone of your posts and repeated mis-representation of several points in favor of WB.

 

[de_ronde]

Sure, which is why I openly stated their policy the entire time and allowed others to decide on their own, and also never asked anyone else to stop ordering from them.

Why don't you just email Bill Moore, the owner of William's Brewing and talk to him? His email is published on the website, (hint: [email protected]) where domainname=williamsbrewing and he is the "William" of the shop's name. Ask him what he thinks about how his employees handled the situation. Report back when you get an answer.

 

[carnevoodoo]

Do you have some sort of stake in WB? I am trying to understand the reason behind the tone of your posts and repeated mis-representation of several points in favor of WB.

I'm just baffled at how they really didn't do any wrong and you had to sign up here to complain about it. I don't have a stake in anything. I use one homebrew store and if I need something mailed, I'll use B3 or AHS, but other than that, I've never even been to the Williams Brewing site.

I just think you're being wholly unreasonable. They offered everything that they should have as a business. You asked for preferential treatment and when you didn't get it, you started to flame them for it. It is unfair. If you don't like what you got, send it back. They offered to pay shipping and give you your money back. You are treating this like they did this maliciously to mess with you and you're some sort of victim here. It is just silly.

With all the effort you've put into complaining, you could have mailed back that yeast 20 times over. You'd have your money back and they would have fulfilled their end of their policy as a company doing ordinary business.

There have been plenty of reasonable complaints on this board, and this is just not one of them.

 

[HenryHill]

Do you have some sort of stake in WB? I am trying to understand the reason behind the tone of your posts and repeated mis-representation of several points in favor of WB.

We have reached the Time.

Transition complete.

 

[bradsul]

This thread has about 5% remaining life.

Gave it an extra 5% for good measure.