So, I kegged up a honey citra blonde about 5 days ago. I overcarbed at 35 psi for 2 days then turned it down to 12 psi. After one day at 12 psi, the beer tasted awesome! I mean like sweet, juicy and super chug able at 7.5% ABV. I put a little honey malt in the mash and could taste it. Plus the Citra hopS gave it a nice citrus juicy finish. Awesome mouth feel and probably one of the best beers I ever made. The next day, the beer has an off flavor now, dry to the tongue and an off bitter flavor. It lost its juiciness and the sweet honey hint is all gone. Could it be my CO2 bottle? I am using a steel bottle and made a mistake several months ago. I left the valve open to the atmosphere when it was empty for several weeks. Could it have rusted and now killing the beer? I am so upset at this point. 10 gallons of beer that probably going to get dumped. All this just before a bunch of friends where coming over this weekend to try this beer I was bragging about. Anyone experience a dirty and or rust CO2 bottle before? Before I tapped these kegs i pulled and cleaned the lines with LLC and hand cleaned the taps inside and out. I also soaked and scrubbed the kegs in oxyclean and a little TSP until everything was clean and brite. That includes pulling the valves and pick up tubes and giving them a good cleaning. I have not had good luck with the last few batches and am rethinking this whole hobby.
Bad CO2 Bottle?
- Thread starter bgmac
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk:
snarf7
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2017
- Messages
- 380
- Reaction score
- 114
I don't think that could be the cause...when a CO2 tank is refilled, all the air is forced out and replaced with CO2. I suppose a rusty valve or regulator could be responsible but I've never experienced anything like that. Definitely don't dump it, if there's one thing I've learned it's that the beer changes daily and often things that you find offputting at first will fade or mellow with time
Was thinking I will let it go flat a little but keep it under a couple of psi of CO2 to keep it from being oxygenated. I ran a new beer line in on of the kegs and shook some CO2 out of the beer and it smoothed out a little. But still has about half of the off flavor that wasn’t there a day ago. I wonder if it’s carbonic acid. Thinking let it run low in CO2 pressure and replacing the beer lines along with the CO2 bottle might make it salvageable.
snarf7
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2017
- Messages
- 380
- Reaction score
- 114
Definitely worth a shot
GoeHaarden
The best advice is unsolicited
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2017
- Messages
- 1,359
- Reaction score
- 768
This! I bet you over carb'd and you're tasting that carbonic acid bite. I always just hook my kegs up to serving pressure and let it ride, but two days of high pressure seems a bit long. I always thought it was more like 36 hours at 35psi. I've never had an issue this way. I'd say pull it out to room temp, and pull your prv every so often. Once flat, then try again...setting to serving pressure seems, to me, like the easiest way to get the desired carbonation.
![Craft A Brew - Safale BE-256 Yeast - Fermentis - Belgian Ale Dry Yeast - For Belgian & Strong Ales - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [3 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51bcKEwQmWL._SL500_.jpg)
Feeling better. I pulled the kegs out of the fridge yesterday and took it off the CO2. I shook them a few times and relieved the pressure down till it was maybe a couple of pounds. After about 18 hours I put them back in the fridge still off the CO2. Thinking the warmer temps out of the fridge would speed up the CO2 release. I released the pressure to near zero a few times after they warmed up also. I let them cool for a few hours and took a taste. Now it just tastes like typical 3 and a half week green beer. Maybe just the slightest hint of the off taste from before but you really have to pay attention to notice it. Not as good as it was the first day but way better then it was yesterday. Today I ordered new serving lines and gas lines (even though I know they are clean with my LLC pump cleaner system I just used 4 days ago. Tomorrow I am going to swap the CO2 bottle at the local brew store an then set the CO2 level low, maybe 6 or 7 and see what happens after a day or two. It tastes better but lost the nice honey malt sweet hint it had on the first try. Maybe it was over carbed and or bad CO2? I will find out with a fresh gas bottle tomorrow.
how are you transfering the beer from the fermenter to the keg?
Follow up: After shocking all the old steel bottle CO2 out of the beer and recarbing on a new clean bottle, the beer turned out awesome! The off flavor was completely in the CO2. At 5 plus weeks, the beer has dropped 100% clear and has the slight sweet honey aftertaste I was looking for. Too bad there isn't much left. Friends preferred my beer over their craft macro bottled beer they brought over. Lesson learned, don't leave a CO2 bottle valve open when empty, especially if its steel. Probably rusted inside from humidity etc.
Even if it were rusted rust does not outgas and it has no smell whatsoever. Besides that, if your bottle complies with current food regs it should have a valve that will not relase the last few pounds of pressure even if you leave the shut-off valve completely open (although I realize as I'm writing that this might not be the case in your particular jurisdiction), this is to prevent air from getting in and getting mixed with the CO2 from the next recharge.
Whatever off-flavor you were detecting was probably due to the beer being too green and needing longer conditioning times.
Whatever off-flavor you were detecting was probably due to the beer being too green and needing longer conditioning times.
I am 100% positive it came from the CO2. Before I got a new CO2 bottle, I let a pint go flat and the off flavor was gone. All I know is that the steel bottle will be swapped for a new/re-certified bottle when I get a chance to run over to the local welding supply store.
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2006
- Messages
- 16,779
- Reaction score
- 5,916
I'm with you. I don't like steel bottles I get from my local gas source. Twice they have told me they are out of aluminum 5lb bottles. I typically only use aluminum. These two times the beer got a fowl taste when I switched gas bottles. Now I refuse to take a steel bottle. I own two aluminum, so I always have a back up and never a need to take a steel bottle I can wait a few days for my local source to get aluminum empties.
The taste is an aweful taste like dimethyl sulfide or vegetable. I think of split peas soup. I've had beers I made for football tailgating. They were aweful on this CO2 gas in steel, good thing was I was the only person who could detect it taste wise. People thought I was being too critical of my own beer.
I agree with you. Going to try and find a place to swap the steel bottle for an aluminum bottle. I wont trust steel from now on.
Mic Carp
Loud Mic
I too have 2 5lb bottles and a 10lb for charging. If they don't have a new aluminum bottle at refil time, i just tell them to gimme a call when they get more in.
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2006
- Messages
- 16,779
- Reaction score
- 5,916
Not to over state the obvious. Maybe it's not the bottle but the gas in the bottle.
Do you know the difference between food grade CO2 and standard? I do not.
Maybe coincidentally the standard is in steel and the food grade in aluminum.
Robert65
Major Obvious (recently promoted)
As I recall, the fundamental requirement for food grade CO2 as opposed to industrial is that it be free of traces of mineral oils from lubrication. That leaves a lot of room for other impurities.
Nate R
Well-Known Member
Oh oh oh!!
Can i get in on this?!?
Lol.
To the OP- try looking for an Airgas or similar. They dont usually fill on site but only carry "food grade" co2. I used to get my shiny new bottle filled at a fire extinigusher place or a welding shop... but just ended up swapping for a prefilled one.
I have read countless posts on here on regular vs. foodgrade.. (search. So many!!).
I would agree most of us could not tell the difference. But why not just get the good stuff anyway?
Robert65
Major Obvious (recently promoted)
Yes, Airgas is a good source. I get mine exchanged at LHBS, but they get it from Airgas, saving me some time and distance.
Everything we get is likely food grade in that it is free of compressor lubricants. But beyond that there are other grades of purity. Most of what we get is 99.9% CO2. There are medical and research grades that can add a 9 or two, and "pure" or "beverage grade" can mean just 99.0%. A significant portion of the impurity will be oxygen. There can also be some moisture. This may be insignificant, but I could see it, over time, corroding steel. A very, very long time.
So go with Airgas (you can go to their website for specs on their gases, but IIRC the standard stuff is at least 99.9%) and use aluminum bottles and you should rest easy.
Everything we get is likely food grade in that it is free of compressor lubricants. But beyond that there are other grades of purity. Most of what we get is 99.9% CO2. There are medical and research grades that can add a 9 or two, and "pure" or "beverage grade" can mean just 99.0%. A significant portion of the impurity will be oxygen. There can also be some moisture. This may be insignificant, but I could see it, over time, corroding steel. A very, very long time.
So go with Airgas (you can go to their website for specs on their gases, but IIRC the standard stuff is at least 99.9%) and use aluminum bottles and you should rest easy.
Robert65
Major Obvious (recently promoted)
Not sure about Airgas directly, as I assume my LHBS is including a markup, but they currently charge $16 for a fill or exchange of a 5 lb bottle. I should note this may not reflect Airgas retail, because LHBS buys large tanks and fills 5-20 lb bottles on premises.
Nate R
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2006
- Messages
- 16,779
- Reaction score
- 5,916
I pay $18 for 5 lbs. Central Illinois. I get it from Airgas
Hah, man we get screwed in Sacramento. Thats not bad. I’m paying $24 at the fire extinguisher supply place, and they re-cert bottles. Having a hard time letting go of my nice, shiny alum CO2 bottle for trade. I think the LHBS just does tradeouts as well via Prax
Nate R
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2006
- Messages
- 16,779
- Reaction score
- 5,916
I had that problem at first. Thank God I got over it quickly.
I don't like to have lots of beer, be alone in an empty house, have nothing to do, and be stranded in a state of sobriety.
Nate R
Well-Known Member
Seriously... i was just @ airgas last week... my exchange got me a brand new, cream colored top.5# tank.. it looks soooo good! But you know what? It goes inside the keezer and does it's thing. Nobody sees it. When it is empty i will just swap it. They guys at the shop and i were laughing about how i used to care... i would even drive farther for a fill vs. a swap
So stupid!!
Oh, cause i just learned them:
:bottle:
Robert65
Major Obvious (recently promoted)
And having the same gas filled in a different bottle is going to fix the issue how?
I do. It's the traceability requirements and the liability issue. The gas itself is the same. There are no lubricants in CO2, either food grade or industrial.
Now you're just making stuff up. I assure you I get food grade CO2 filled in a steel cylinder with all the associated paperwork on a regular basis. No metal (either rusted or not) will release vapors at temperatures at which life is still possible. You cannot "smell" metal.
