Bad brew day- rethinking hobby

[ba-brewer]

My brewsmith setup says I'll lose .5 gal per hour in boil. I am assuming that's super low based on what I have read, maybe closer to 1 gal

Best thing to do is a test run and measure your boil off, .5gal per hour is low for a kettle appropriate for a 5gal batch(10gal) if uncovered, 1gal per hour is reasonable if you are not creating a volcano type boil. The diameter/surface area of your kettle pretty much determines the boil off if you are uncovered.

What were your kettle and fermentor loss set to in beersmith? If you plan to dump everything set kettle loss and mashtun dead space to zero and maybe .25 to .5gal for fermentor. If you had a lot of hops it will not compact as much.

 

[kh54s10]

My brewsmith setup says I'll lose .5 gal per hour in boil. I am assuming that's super low based on what I have read, maybe closer to 1 gal

Beersmith doesn't really tell you what your boil off will be. It is telling you what to expect based on the boil off rate that you tell it you normally get. You haven't set up your equipment profile so it is taking whatever was in there by default.

On the top bar in Beersmith go to HELP then go to the videos. Watch at least the one on setting up your equipment profile. I would suggest that you watch them all, probably some fo them several times. Mess around with the program a lot and try to see what it is doing. It is not a plug and play software. You have to learn to use it properly. Once everything is set it is very quick to make a recipe and you will have a good idea what you will get even before brewing.

 

[IslandLizard]

As mentioned previously, your biggest issue seems to be much higher boil off than your calculations assumed.

But... with much higher boil off his post boil gravity would be proportionally much higher at the same time. That doesn't seem the case. Or is it?

I have the feeling the OP dumped a lot of good wort with his trub in an effort to get less trub in the fermentor.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Thinking I need to step back to extract....

Was it your first all-grain attempt? Don't give up and go back to extract. I recently just began grain BIAB and it's not that hard, but you do have to get your system dialed in for more variables, like mash absorption, etc. If you ended up way too light on the yield your pre-boil volume wasn't right, or you way overboiled. But I doubt you did that, so just try again and use more water. If Beersmith gave you the wrong numbers for pre-boil you may need to tweak your equipment settings. Maybe the boil-off amount is way too high or something.

I hear you on being disappointed. My 2nd batch was a double IPA, extract partial boil. I figured it would be awesome, and better than my 1st, especially because I love DIPAs. Actually ended up worse, I think because I overboiled the extract. Just have to keep trying and your beer quality will definitely keep getting better.

 

[dustinthompson85]

But... with much higher boil off his post boil gravity would be proportionally much higher at the same time. That doesn't seem the case. Or is it?

I have the feeling the OP dumped a lot of good wort with his trub in an effort to get less trub in the fermentor.

I definitely dumped more than I should have not understanding it would settle in the fermenter. Fail there on my part for sure. I think I boiled off more than expected, but also dumped wort that I shouldn't have.

 

[IslandLizard]

I definitely dumped more than I should have not understanding it would settle in the fermenter. Fail there on my part for sure. I think I boiled off more than expected, but also dumped wort that I shouldn't have.

How much did you dump, roughly?

What was your OG going into the fernmentor?

 

[dustinthompson85]

How much did you dump, roughly?

What was your OG going into the fernmentor?

1.080 (measured with slurry in it). Honestly I say I dumped a little over a gallon or right around that mark. Didnt measure it or anything just going off feel looking back. Wasn't in the best frame of mind at the time.

 

[ba-brewer]

He said he had 6.5gal of 1065 pre boil and 1080 post boil for a 90min boil, this works out to about 5gal

edit, fuzzy memory, 63 and 80 , 6.5*65/80 = 5.1

 

[IslandLizard]

1.080 (measured with slurry in it). Honestly I say I dumped a little over a gallon or right around that mark. Didnt measure it or anything just going off feel looking back. Wasn't in the best frame of mind at the time.

He said he had 6.5gal of 1065 pre boil and 1080 post boil for a 90min boil, this works out to about 5gal

With 5 gallon 1.080 post boil, minus 1 gallon of trub, and only 2.5 gallons in the fermentor, there's still 1.5 gallon missing.
If the OP indeed boiled off those 1.5 gallons his post boil/fermentor gravity would have been much higher than 1.080.

Any other losses unaccounted for?

 

[dustinthompson85]

With 5 gallon 1.080 post boil, minus 1 gallon of trub, and only 2.5 gallons in the fermentor, there's still 1.5 gallon missing.
If the OP indeed boiled off those 1.5 gallons his post boil/fermentor gravity would have been much higher than 1.080.

Any other losses unaccounted for?

2.5 in the fermenter is also an estimate. The lowest marking it has is 5 gal

 

[ba-brewer]

He said he had to dump his strainer a couple of time because it was clogged, so there was some of missing 1.5gal.

Assuming the 1080, 1063 and 6.5gal were accurate the post boil volume is well defined.

 

[Metalchef1]

Out of curiosity... I noticed someone made the comment to stop straining the wort.
Can you explain why? I have always strained and I haven't noticed any negative effects from it..

I don't use a funnel with a tiny screen, but instead I have a ridiculously oversized hop spyder that I double as a strainer... You have to stir a bit but I don't get any losses of wort volume and a much cleaner solution for primary fermentation.

 

[IslandLizard]

He said he had to dump his strainer a couple of time because it was clogged, so there was some of missing 1.5gal.

I would have assumed the strainer content to be part of the 1 gallon trub that was dumped. Maybe those were not included, and perhaps there was some left in the kettle too.

2.5 in the fermenter is also an estimate. The lowest marking it has is 5 gal

2.5 gallon was a guesstimate, I don't see the 5 gallon mark. It looks to be about half full to the bottom of the shoulder. May well be 3 gallons.

 

[ba-brewer]

I would have assumed the strainer content to be part of the 1 gallon trub that was dumped. Maybe those were not included, and perhaps there was some left in the kettle too.

2.5 gallon was a guesstimate, I don't see the 5 gallon mark. It looks to be about half full to the bottom of the shoulder. May well be 3 gallons.

If the initial 1063 was incorrect and was actually lower then the boil off/post boil volume would be higher to get to the 1080 post boil gravity. That could help explain some of the lost wort.

Always good to keep good notes.

 

[IslandLizard]

Out of curiosity... I noticed someone made the comment to stop straining the wort.
Can you explain why? I have always strained and I haven't noticed any negative effects from it..

I don't use a funnel with a tiny screen, but instead I have a ridiculously oversized hop spyder that I double as a strainer... You have to stir a bit but I don't get any losses of wort volume and a much cleaner solution for primary fermentation.

Although straining is not necessary, all trub will settle out in the fermentor, it may be done if you wish, for whatever reason. Perhaps you want to harvest a cleaner yeast cake, or use the maximum fermentor volume while leaving ample headspace. Squeeze that strainer/spider bag, get all the good wort and hop juice out. I use silicone mitts.

Using hop spiders or baskets in the boil is also perfectly fine, as is bagging, or any other way to contain hop matter during the boil. As long as you refresh the wort inside your hop device often, by lifting, draining, "massaging," etc. there should be no or only a small reduction in extraction and isomerization (bittering) efficiency. Remember, wort never boils inside the bag or basket, it's a couple degrees lower in there.

I have a plate chiller, and use 2-3 large (9x22") fine mesh hop bags and have not noticed any negative effects, only positive ones. I can recirculate, whirlpool and chill at full bore and full speed, getting much more predictable results. No more cavitation, slow flow, or clogged chillers. The amount of cursing has also dropped dramatically.

 

[Metalchef1]

Those were my thoughts... That's why I was wondering the comment about not straining...

 

[Anyhowe]

I only took 1 philosophy class in college. I came out with one perl. “One need not add entities”. In other words keep it simple and keep your variables to a minimum otherwise learning becomes nearly impossible.

Make a simple session SMASH. Mash it, boil it, rack it, ferment it, and drink it. Document everything and improve and innovate 1 variable at a time. It’s a hobby, there is no end of the rainbow to search for. It is a progression that will involve hours, weeks, months and years of enjoyment if you let it.

 

[Morrey]

One of the biggest issues facing newer brewers (not that you are one) is the inaccuracy of volume measurements before, during and after the process. Even fermenters with etched markings and kettles with sight glasses can be considerably off. Even though it seems ok to simply trust these markings, 1/2 gallon off one way or the other can make huge differences in efficiency calculations. Check these markings with a trusted measuring device of some sort.

All of the advice you see from seasoned brewers is suggesting you do boil off tests so you can determine an accurate boil off rate. I have a 10G kettle and I boil off 1.25 gallons per hour as a norm. This is setup in my BeerSmith equipment profile, but sooner than later, you'll know by memory how much water to start with and how much you'll be losing in the process.

If you give up now, you'll sell yourself short of ever becoming a successful homebrewer. It will get better if you take your time.

 

[Boilinginsc]

Here’s a write up on biab that has a water chart

https://www.brewinabag.com/pages/instructions

If you’re making an above average alcohol content beer, (above 1.050 OG) and use more than ten pounds of grain, add 12 oz of water for every pound of grain over ten. That doesn’t sound like much, but eight pounds more (or eighteen pounds total) is ninety-six additional ounces, which is 3/4 of a gallon. You can always add water to reach volume and you can always boil longer to reduce volume. This will concentrate the sugars in the wort and allow you to hit your Original Gravity target.

 

[Bassman2003]

I am sure you will find the correct settings in Beersmith and then you will be up and running. As a reference, my evaporation rate is around 1.15 gal per hour using an induction burner. When I used to have a snake keg with heating elements I had it up to 2.20 gal per hour! You really do not need to put that much heat in the boil. I would aim for the 1.25 gal per hour mark by testing different burner/heat levels.

As a guide, my total water used between mash and sparge is around 10 gallons. I start my boil with 7.75 gallons of wort with the 1.15 boil off rate. This is for below 1.060 beers. So when you are adjusting your profile, just keep in mind that your estimated pre boil wort volume will need to be at least this number or higher if your boil off rate exceeds my 1.15 per hour.

When I did BIAB my starting water was pretty much the same - 10 gallons.

Don't give up unless you do not like the hobby. There is always another batch and people here willing to help.

 

[applescrap]

Sorry to hear about the bad day. For me this is kind of the essence of home brewing or at least a part i like. You have bad days, and you think about what happened, what next. All the things you are doing. You learn, water volumes, mashing with biab, your setups unique nuisances and you plan for next time. Maybe think of it as an exciting, and fun time. You are getting all this great info from incredible minds and are calculating what to do next. Draw pictures of your setup and volumes, think about boil off, absorption and kettle trub. Best of luck, hope you hang in there.

 

[dustinthompson85]

I really want to thank the community for offering advice and helping me think through this last session. Sometimes it good to know that others have gone through similar learning curves. I will re plan and re execute here soon. I will let you know if the beer fermenting now turns out ok or if it's a hot mess. Thanks again everyone!

 

[IslandLizard]

Although BeerSmith is great for recipe formulation, and when configured correctly for your equipment (profiles) may give you all you need, there are simpler online BIAB and mash calculators out there that can be used in a jiffy.

The 365 Mash/Sparge Calculator has been for many years and still is my #1 mash volume tool. It's so easy to make tweaks here and there as things may change during brew day. Things we know, but BS is totally oblivious or ignorant about. Such as boiling (flaked) corn for 20' to gelatinize it more thoroughly, then using the resulting thin polenta as strike water for the main mash. Or cereal mashing.

Same for many of us using an online yeast calculator rather than relying on BS's rudimentary approach.

 

[millatime]

Just to chime in here, I also am starting newly into AG brewing. My first brew was a "kit" from a supplier, all the milled grain, hops, and yeast.

Beersmith confused the bejesus out of me to begin with, trying to setup my equipment and recipe, water amounts etc. So what I did was lookup the kit recipe on beersmith and see what other users used for temps/water amounts. You can search a recipe and see what others used for water amounts, ferm temps, everything.

I then wrote a detailed step of my brew day before hand. This helped me a lot run down a checklist of EVERY step.

I.E.
1) clean and sanitize - get ALL equipment ready: by that I mean have all your tubes, thermometers, etc ready to rock
2) preheat X gallons/liters of strike water to 170 : 12lb of grain x 1.25 liters per lb (or whatever you may need)
3) mash at 152 for 60 mins - have timer ready
4) mash out at 170 using X more gallons of water
5) batch sparge to reach X gallons in boil pot
6) etc etc

I now have a lot of confidence going into my second brew. Hope this helps and keep brewing!

 

[kh54s10]

Just to chime in here, I also am starting newly into AG brewing. My first brew was a "kit" from a supplier, all the milled grain, hops, and yeast.

Beersmith confused the bejesus out of me to begin with, trying to setup my equipment and recipe, water amounts etc. So what I did was lookup the kit recipe on beersmith and see what other users used for temps/water amounts. You can search a recipe and see what others used for water amounts, ferm temps, everything.

I then wrote a detailed step of my brew day before hand. This helped me a lot run down a checklist of EVERY step.

I.E.
1) clean and sanitize - get ALL equipment ready: by that I mean have all your tubes, thermometers, etc ready to rock
2) preheat X gallons/liters of strike water to 170 : 12lb of grain x 1.25 liters per lb (or whatever you may need)
3) mash at 152 for 60 mins - have timer ready
4) mash out at 170 using X more gallons of water
5) batch sparge to reach X gallons in boil pot
6) etc etc

I now have a lot of confidence going into my second brew. Hope this helps and keep brewing!

This is a great start but you will need to refine the process.

1) is good for all brewing.
2) Strike water temperature will change based on the amount of grain and the temperature of the grain when doughing in.
3) mash temperature can be adjusted to change the mouthfeel of the beer. Lower makes a more fermentable wort and a drier beer. Higher give a maltier beer.
4) If you are doing Batch sparge or BIAB you can skip this step. It is to stop enzymatic action and lock in a profile when doing an hour long fly sparge.
6) every combination of pot and heat source will create a different boil off rate. You will have to refine your volume until you collect the proper amount into the fermenter consistently.

Keep researching, learning, enjoying. Brew on.

 

[millatime]

Thanks @kh54s10 It was more of a overall general list so he can lay out his steps, this will obviously be different for everyone

 

[ba-brewer]

@dustinthompson85, glad to hear you are going to give it another try good luck with your next batch.

 

[Anyhowe]

This is a great start but you will need to refine the process.

Nope.

This is exactly how they get confused, they misinterpret and they have problems. Brew on.

 

[Anyhowe]

Just to chime in here, I also am starting newly into AG brewing. My first brew was a "kit" from a supplier, all the milled grain, hops, and yeast.

Beersmith confused the bejesus out of me to begin with, trying to setup my equipment and recipe, water amounts etc. So what I did was lookup the kit recipe on beersmith and see what other users used for temps/water amounts. You can search a recipe and see what others used for water amounts, ferm temps, everything.

I then wrote a detailed step of my brew day before hand. This helped me a lot run down a checklist of EVERY step.

I.E.
1) clean and sanitize - get ALL equipment ready: by that I mean have all your tubes, thermometers, etc ready to rock
2) preheat X gallons/liters of strike water to 170 : 12lb of grain x 1.25 liters per lb (or whatever you may need)
3) mash at 152 for 60 mins - have timer ready
4) mash out at 170 using X more gallons of water
5) batch sparge to reach X gallons in boil pot
6) etc etc

I now have a lot of confidence going into my second brew. Hope this helps and keep brewing!

Excellent direction and advice. Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

But... with much higher boil off his post boil gravity would be proportionally much higher at the same time. That doesn't seem the case. Or is it?

I have the feeling the OP dumped a lot of good wort with his trub in an effort to get less trub in the fermentor.

True, but I don't think the OP posted either post-boil volume or actual OG. So, everything was speculation based on low fermenter volume. Didn't find those when I went back and looked. If they were posted, can someone link to them, so I can slap my forehead? OP later said he left lots of "slurry" behind, and I reposted noting that that is also a big part of his "missing" volume.

Brew on