Bad Batches - Oxy Clean?

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BuffettPack

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I've just tasted my 5th batch of homebrew.

I started with the Northern Brewer German Alt as my first batch and it was delicious. Moved onto an Oatmeal Stout I picked up at a local homebrew store and it turned out good.

My last 3 batches have been terrible. Caribou Slobber, Irish Red, and back to the German Alt. They have each had a terrible off-flavor. I attributed it to the yeast on the Slobber and the Red, but I used the same yeast for the German Alt and it has the same off flavor (it didn't the first time I made it). I have used the dry kit yeast with each of them (each had a different one).

Nothing unusual has happened with any of the batches and I've fermented all of them in the 60-65 degree range. The only think I can figure is there is oxy clean residue in the carboy and in the bottles and its creating the problem. I probably started using it for the first time after the Oatmeal Stout.

In addition to the off flavor, I get a giant head on every pour. As I pour the beer and it comes into contact with the end of the bottle it basically turns to foam and fills the glass with foam. Takes 10-15 minutes for the foam to settle into something drinkable.

Anyone had any negative experiences with oxy clean? Any validation that this would be my problem?
 
Oxyclean is a great cleaner. But it's no sanitiser.

I am suspecting you have un-sanitized nasties in your fermentor. Do you use anything like star-san, idophor (or bleach soluation) to sanitize)?
 
I use star san on bottles and carboys after I dump the oxy clean out. I'm doubting I've rinsed the oxy clean completely out and the star san rinse likely isn't enough.
 
I use Oxyclean all the time. I rinse with tap water about three times to get everything out. Then use star-san to sanitize and drain with no rinse. That works without issues for me.
 
I use oxyclean all the time with no issues. You do have to rinse a few times to ensure all the residue is out.
 
You can use vinegar to strip any excess Oxyclean residue. Just use a few cups mixed with water to five gallons and then rinse to get the vinegar smell out.
 
I also use Oxyclean without problems. Make sure you are using the perfume free variety.

Rinse very well then sanitize with Starsan or Iodaphor.

If you still get off flavors something else is the cause.
 
TimpanogosSlim said:
can you describe the off flavor?

see this as a possible guide:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html
Click to expand...

Best I can describe is yeasty. I think it has to be more than just a yeast issue because of the head on the beer when I pour. I pour it out extremely slowly but when you watch the beer come into contact with the neck of the bottle just before its coming out, it just turns to foam.

I also clean the carboys with oxy clean (I'll dump an entire scoop in, sometimes two) and let it sit for weeks. Then I dump it, give it a quick rinse, and then add star san and swish it around for several minutes before I add any wort to it.

I've got 50 bottles of red and 50 bottles of german alt but I'm considering dumping them. The red is 8 weeks old and still has the off flavor. I want to make sure I'm not ingesting any oxy clean residue as I'm sure thats not particularly healthy either.
 
Off flavor and heroic foaming sounds like an infection to me. I'd look over you sanitizing and see if you've got a dirty piece of equipment
 
How long do you leave them in the fridge before you drink it? I was just thinking when you carb beer all the co2 is hanging out in the headspace of the bottle. It absorbs into the beer when you chill it and it can take 2-4 days. The only reason I bring this up is because I brewed a caribou slobber and observed something interesting, if I chilled just long enough to get cold (a few hours) I got a lot of head. If I chilled for several days, the head was 1/4 as tall. If the co2 is not absorbed well maybe that could be the culprit. I have noticed the taste you describe on certain green beers I have tasted. Seems more noticeable on darker, heavier beers like porters and brown ales than ipas.
 
A lot of times I'll take a beer sitting at room temp and pop it in the freezer for 30 minutes, then pour. The one I did yesterday, I put in the fridge for about 10 hours before I drank it.
 
BuffettPack said:
A lot of times I'll take a beer sitting at room temp and pop it in the freezer for 30 minutes, then pour. The one I did yesterday, I put in the fridge for about 10 hours before I drank it.
Click to expand...

That could definitely contribute to your problem. Try this, put 4 in the fridge, drink one after 24 hours, one at 48, etc. That will be an interesting test.
 
Definitely rinse the Oxiclean *very* well before adding sanitizer. And store the beer in the fridge for at least 48 hours, but ideally a couple of weeks before drinking. If that doesn't solve the problem, you may have a gusher infection or simply stressed yeast. If it's the first, I'd replace all your soft plastics and sanitize the rest of your equipment very well (extended soaks, preferably using two different sanitizers in series).

Do you rehydrate your yeast? At what temperature do you pitch? How do you aerate? How long do you let the beer sit on the yeast before bottling? Do you use a racking cane/auto siphon holder or clip to minimize yeast transfer to the bottling bucket? Do you use any finings post-fermentation?
 
BuffettPack said:
A lot of times I'll take a beer sitting at room temp and pop it in the freezer for 30 minutes, then pour. The one I did yesterday, I put in the fridge for about 10 hours before I drank it.
Click to expand...

That is not even close to enough time in the fridge. Even 24 hours is too soon. The co2 will absorb in to the beer pretty good after 2 or 3 days, but if you let your bottles sit in the fridge for a week or two some off flavors will also subside. Give it a try for at least a week. 2 weeks would be even better.
 
Do you have a water softener? I do, and I find that I need to rinse anything I clean with Oxyclean around four times before it finally feels like the residue is off. That being said, I don't think anything beats it for how it clean my equipment, so I love using it. But yeah, needs a lot of rinsing.
 
dcott said:
Do you have a water softener? I do, and I find that I need to rinse anything I clean with Oxyclean around four times before it finally feels like the residue is off. That being said, I don't think anything beats it for how it clean my equipment, so I love using it. But yeah, needs a lot of rinsing.
Click to expand...

I've had this same problem with hard water or water with lots of iron in it. I switched to PBW after I got tired of rinsing 5 times to get the oxyclean out. It did cost a bit more but I think its worth it for the time I save. Plus it looks a lot COOLER.

On a side note do you get extreme mud butt when you drink the beer? That would be a key indicator of Oxyclean residue. Otherwise I would point the finger at something else
 
ArcaneXor said:
Do you rehydrate your yeast? At what temperature do you pitch? How do you aerate? How long do you let the beer sit on the yeast before bottling? Do you use a racking cane/auto siphon holder or clip to minimize yeast transfer to the bottling bucket? Do you use any finings post-fermentation?
Click to expand...

The first I did I threw the dry yeast on top of the wort after it cooled to the appropriate temp. Best beer I've made (German Alt).

Second beer I used a liquid yeast. Good beer (Oatmeal Stout).

Third beer back to dry yeast. Not too good, but go better with 4-5 months (Carribou Slobber). I did rehydrated the dry yeast on this one. It smelled awful when rehydrated.

Went back to dumping the dry yeast on the wort for the Red and the German Alt this time around.

I do not use finings at all during the process.

I pitch around 70-75 degrees. I aerate by putting a tennis ball under the plastic carboy and swishing the wort around for 2-3 minutes before pitching yeast. I then put the carboy in a tub of water and add ice packs to keep the water beween 60-65 degrees. Leave it in fermenter for 2 weeks, then secondary carboy for 2 weeks. Then I bottle. I use one of the auto siphons to transfer between carboys and bottling bucket. I keep it off the yeast but leaving the bottom 1" or so of yeast cake in the primary. Same with secondary.
 
Stauffbier said:
That is not even close to enough time in the fridge. Even 24 hours is too soon. The co2 will absorb in to the beer pretty good after 2 or 3 days, but if you let your bottles sit in the fridge for a week or two some off flavors will also subside. Give it a try for at least a week. 2 weeks would be even better.
Click to expand...

I'll try this. I must have mistakenly read somewhere that its better for the carbonation and the maturation of the beer to stay out of the fridge. I've been keeping it at room temp in a dark place as a result until the day of (or in emergencies 30 minutes before). Hopefully that will help fix the head from hell issue.
 
wfowlks said:
I've had this same problem with hard water or water with lots of iron in it. I switched to PBW after I got tired of rinsing 5 times to get the oxyclean out. It did cost a bit more but I think its worth it for the time I save. Plus it looks a lot COOLER.

On a side note do you get extreme mud butt when you drink the beer? That would be a key indicator of Oxyclean residue. Otherwise I would point the finger at something else
Click to expand...

I'm going to thoroughly rinse my carboys and bottles for my next batch. I will try the vinegar to cut the oxyclean and then probably rinse a ton and then try PBW.

No mud butt as a result of drinking the beer last night. I probably only drank 4-5 ounces though as it was pretty bad.
 
dcott said:
Do you have a water softener? I do, and I find that I need to rinse anything I clean with Oxyclean around four times before it finally feels like the residue is off. That being said, I don't think anything beats it for how it clean my equipment, so I love using it. But yeah, needs a lot of rinsing.
Click to expand...

wfowlks said:
I've had this same problem with hard water or water with lots of iron in it. I switched to PBW after I got tired of rinsing 5 times to get the oxyclean out. It did cost a bit more but I think its worth it for the time I save. Plus it looks a lot COOLER.

On a side note do you get extreme mud butt when you drink the beer? That would be a key indicator of Oxyclean residue. Otherwise I would point the finger at something else
Click to expand...

The general reason for a water softener is to take a bunch of stuff out of solution so as to make the water a better solvent.

The residue left behind by ox(i,y)-whatever products is sodium carbonate, aka washing soda, aka soda ash. It does need to be well rinsed, it will slow fermentation, and doesn't taste good.

PBW is essentially a mixture of oxyclean and sodium metasilicate, which is caustic. I can't say for sure whether it would leave more or less residue. Perhaps less because of it's caustic nature, but you'd still want a good rinse.

rinsing with an acid - be it acetic (vinegar), citric, or phosphoric (star-san) certainly should help remove it.
 
TimpanogosSlim said:
PBW is essentially a mixture of oxyclean and sodium metasilicate, which is caustic. I can't say for sure whether it would leave more or less residue.
Click to expand...

I've always found it leaves about the same amount of residue. And since generic OxyClean works just as well and costs less, it's what I prefer to use.

That being said, if you've isolated the OxyClean as the culprit for your off flavors, maybe trying PBW instead might lead to a better result.

However, as a prior poster stated, if the off taste is yeasty and not chemical-y, it probably isn't your cleaning chemicals.
 
BuffettPack said:
I'll try this. I must have mistakenly read somewhere that its better for the carbonation and the maturation of the beer to stay out of the fridge. I've been keeping it at room temp in a dark place as a result until the day of (or in emergencies 30 minutes before). Hopefully that will help fix the head from hell issue.
Click to expand...

Don't confuse bottle conditioning (which is done at room temp) with chilling (which is what you do with your bottles after they have conditioned and are ready to be consumed). Most off tastes that are from being "green" will fade with conditioning, but some minor off tastes can also mellow with chilling. Keep your bottles conditioning until they start to taste good, or much longer if you want to age them. When you're ready to drink one or more then put them in the fridge for a week or two. If you do this and you still get gushing then you have a different problem which can be a number of different things...
 
BuffettPack said:
I also clean the carboys with oxy clean (I'll dump an entire scoop in, sometimes two) and let it sit for weeks. Then I dump it, give it a quick rinse, and then add star san and swish it around for several minutes before I add any wort to it.
Click to expand...

That is ALOT of oxyclean to use... I would also cut back on the amount by at least 1/2. Plus, like the other posters said, a "quick rinse" is insufficient.
 
BuffettPack said:
I've just tasted my 5th batch of homebrew.

I started with the Northern Brewer German Alt as my first batch and it was delicious. Moved onto an Oatmeal Stout I picked up at a local homebrew store and it turned out good.

My last 3 batches have been terrible. Caribou Slobber, Irish Red, and back to the German Alt. They have each had a terrible off-flavor. I attributed it to the yeast on the Slobber and the Red, but I used the same yeast for the German Alt and it has the same off flavor (it didn't the first time I made it). I have used the dry kit yeast with each of them (each had a different one).
Click to expand...

I haven't read every reply so this has probably already been mentioned but I've heard on a podcast that if your batches seem to get progressively worse it's probably because of the accumulation of scratches.
Do you use a plastic bucket? If so do you scrub it with anything when you clean it?
 
Peppers16 said:
I haven't read every reply so this has probably already been mentioned but I've heard on a podcast that if your batches seem to get progressively worse it's probably because of the accumulation of scratches.
Do you use a plastic bucket? If so do you scrub it with anything when you clean it?
Click to expand...

I use a plastic carboy. I've never used the brush b/c soaking it in oxy clean for a week does the trick as far as getting the residue out. Unfortunately, I haven't been thorough enough with the rinsing.
 
Oxiclean has a really slimy feel to it which I'm sure you've noticed. You can get a good idea of how well your carboy is rinsed if you let the water you rinse with run over your hand. I just cleaned a carboy after soaking in Oxi. I rinsed 3 times with hot water, once with hot water and vinegar and one more time with hot water. Seemed to work pretty well.
 
i to am having an issue with oxy clean residue in my carboy ..have a pumpkin ale sitting in the carboy right now and decided i should check on it (it's been in there 2 weeks) and well i hit it with a lite and what do i see what looks like little white spots all around the inside bottom edge of the carboy! i washed this carboy with oxy clean free and star san right before i racked my beer to it! My question is will it lead to any off flavors in my final product? i rinsed this thing out with hot hot water 4 times before i sanitized it. should i move it to another carboy or just let it sit and have a homebrew!
 
One thing you can try next time is also doing a final rinse with water and vinegar. I'm also not sure that the white spots are oxyclean.
 
I had the original problem with oxyclean, but never noticed white spots in my brew. Just a really off taste. I ruined 3 batches before I corrected it. My latest batch Emma's Brown Ale (Northern) hasn't been that great either. Its at least drinkable. I really rinsed the carboys out after that batch and won't use Oxyclean again on my bottles or carboys.
 
Yeah i think i jumped the gun it was yeast settling on the sides... Check it today clear and mighty tasty
 
My standard oxy clean routine is soak 24 hours with about a half scoop, triple rinse, soak in water 24 hours, triple rinse.

Then of course I pee on them.
 
Tgmartin000 how the heck did you know about the peeing on them to sanitize?
 
tgmartin000 said:
Then of course I pee on them.
Click to expand...

:drunk: LOL.

I primarily use PBW because it leaves a bit less slime and it also doesn't leave the white powdery residue. Any acid, not just vinegar, will cut the slime...I use diluted citric acid (lemon juice) because it's I'm not as paranoid about rinsing 80 times like I would be with vinegar. Also, using a bottle washer on your carboy is gold.

I'm inclined to think it might be something else, personally, if cold crashing the yeast in the beer for 48+ hours isn't fixing it. How sure are you that you're fermenting between 60-65? How long are you fermenting? Are you racking to a bottling bucket before bottling or straight to bottle? Are you being careful not to suck your cake into the bottle as much as possible? Not saying they're related, just what I can think of to flush out possibilities.
 
Oxy Clean is a BEAST! It cleans glass and plastic perfectly - just make sure you rinse a few times to get it off.
 
BuffettPack said:
I also clean the carboys with oxy clean (I'll dump an entire scoop in, sometimes two) and let it sit for weeks. Then I dump it, give it a quick rinse, and then add star san and swish it around for several minutes before I add any wort to it.

.
Click to expand...


That's probably your problem... Oxyclean is going to dissipate over a day or two and after a few days, it is basically just water with Oxyclean residue in it. Over a couple of weeks, you are probably building up layers of nasties in the inside of the carboy... which require re-cleaning. A simple rinse, nor a splash with Stan-san will do that.

Oxyclean is a cleaner and Star-san is a sanitizer... two different things.

If you're going to use Oxyclean, just use super hot water and let it sit over one night. Hit it with a carboy brush to be sure, rinse a couple of times and then just let the dry carboy sit for the "weeks". If you want, put a peice of plastic wrap over the opening so that no dust or anything gets in it.

then, when you're ready to use it, then use star-san to sanitize.
 
BuffettPack said:
I use a plastic carboy. I've never used the brush b/c soaking it in oxy clean for a week does the trick as far as getting the residue out. Unfortunately, I haven't been thorough enough with the rinsing.
Click to expand...

I always just use 2 tablespoons of PBW in a 3 gallon carboy. 12 hours and everything's fallen to the bottom.
 

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