Bad Batch After Bad Batch After Bad Batch!!!

[Big "A"]

I by know means am an expert. I use Ivory soap to clean all brewing equipment and then use a no rinse sanitizer.

I have worked in Kitchens for a long time and know quite a bit about proper sanitation.
I would, just as a further precaution clean your kitchen and wipe down counter tops and stuff with a separate tub of Sanny; priorto beginning your brew day.

Personally I would follow AHS ideas and use a different cleaner but first nuking all of your plastics with a bleach soak not too concentrated though bleach is tough on plastic!

I would suggest washing with the Ivory dish soap after the bleach to remove the bleach film then sanitize with the Star-San.

I don't believe your brew closet is the culprit here.
Where do you ferment? In a Plastic bucket or a glass carboy?

 

[yeqmaster]

Hey Forrest!

I just received the kit today!!! It looks amazing. I can't wait to get it going. I'm going home this weekend to visit my parents, but as soon as I get back, I will start the brewing. I really appreciate your generosity. I was honestly getting somewhat bummed out about brewing and didn't really have motivation to keep on going after so many bad batches... But after all the replies and your amazing contribution, it really got me pumped again. Also, I really like the layout of your business's instructions. They seem really thorough and helpful, unlike kits that I've had before. I will definitely be ordering kits from you guys in the future. It seems like you have a great selection! (can't wait to try that fat tire clone) Anyways, I'll make sure to let you know how this one turns out. I've got my bets that its going to be GREAT!!! Thanks again,

Nico Chiarito

 

[rico567]

I would tend to do FIRST and ONLY what "Austinhomebrew" suggests: thoroughly rinse all sanitizers. Don't get me wrong- there are LOTS of good suggestions in this thread, but that' the problem. Changing multiple variables means the OP may never know specifically what's causing the problem. I haven't been at this all that long, but so far (I'm starting to drink my 8th batch, and will rack #9 the first of the week).... so good.

Now, that being said, I agree it's easy for me to say, since I'm not dumping $30 a pop into spoiled batches of beer, and maybe the OP just wants the problem GONE.

As far as another issue this thread raises, there is the "time bomb" effect I've read about somewhere else, can't remember where.....but it's similar. You start brewing, you go along and brew some batches, maybe a year or two goes by, and suddenly you're getting off batches and can't seem to eradicate them. This suggests an environmental problem, something that's gotten into the air and just falls into the exposed wort before it can be pitched and covered up.

The wild/sourdough yeast theory is one that makes me nervous, since I both brew and bake in my kitchen, and I am a confirmed sourdough culturist, of some years' standing. I haven't had a problem -yet- but I don't go to any special lengths to sanitize stove / counters / rest of the kitchen.

I start on brew day with a clean pot (no need to sanitize this), and put all my "small equipment" into a solution of sanitizer in a 30" wallpaper tray: spoon, thermometer, hydrometer, thief, airlock etc.). If I use bleach as a sanitizer, I dump it after a single use. I'm currently working with a batch of Star San, and NOT rinsing. I reuse the Star San only after testing it with pH paper to see that it's still <3.

When I'm on the final phase of the boil, I sponge out the plastic fermenter (and lid) with Star San. I do this twice, ten minutes apart. While the wort chiller does its work, I make sure any excess Star San is drained from the lid and the inside of the fermenter, but I do not rinse (as I do, of course, with Bleach and cleaners like One Step (even though the latter is advertised as no-rinse). Although my plastic fermenter has several stain rings inside by now, and it smells very aromatically of hops, that doesn't seem to cause a problem.

The taste sounds like it's chemically related to me. If rinsing the sanitizers doesn't work, my next choice would be to ditch all cheap parts (hoses, bungs, etc.) and buy new.

 

[morrighu]

We use Iodophor and we've never had this problem I tend to concur with the occasional "nuking" of all the plastics in bleach on a periodic basis. We usually brew every other weekend and about every 4th or 5th batch merits an overnight soak in bleach. I just yank them out of the bleach buck and drop them into a fresh water bucket when I get up in the morning. I'll swap the water out a time or two during the day. By the time I'm ready to brew in the afternoon, everything is rinsed and ready for its Iodophor soaking to keep it sanitized while we're brewing.

HTH,

M.

 

[monty73741]

I would start out with an extract setup to get your technic down
let me tell everyone my set up
I got my kit off of craigs list, the brewer gave me some advice & also i watched the alton brown video. I used to be a chef with my sanicert so i know a little about sanitation

first thing i do is get my spray bottle of water & bleech
I spray & sanatize my whole area. I use a 1 to 10 ratio.
mix up a batch in a big tub

I soak every thing i use to brew in it, hydromers, funnel, pots, mixing stuff, thermos, etc etc....

i put down paper towls & that is my clean area & next to it is the dirty area. after final rinse my equpiment goes to the clean area. i also have a small cup with a bleech solution to sanize thing as i go. thermos, spoons, etc etc. if it leaves the sanitary area it goes to the dirty area. it only goes back if it was sanized again

when i am done every thing gets washed & sanitized again.
I have seen iodine & other cleaners but bleech solution works for me I dont want to change up my system. I also have a whole house filter on my house too.

 

[vav]

Didja brew it up yet? I'm curious how this ends up.

 

[Jaeger48]

I've had the exact same problem with my 2,4,5 batches but the 6th turned out fine. I think my 7th is going to be the same as 2,4,5. I used bleach as my first sanitizer but StarSan for the rest. I'm stepping away from starsan on my next batch to see if that is the issue.

 

[7Enigma]

i put down paper towls & that is my clean area & next to it is the dirty area. after final rinse my equpiment goes to the clean area. i also have a small cup with a bleech solution to sanize thing as i go. thermos, spoons, etc etc. if it leaves the sanitary area it goes to the dirty area. it only goes back if it was sanized again.

I would not use paper towels if possible. They can harbor quite a bit of bad stuff. I have a similar clean/dirty setup. My clean setup is a large stainless steel pot (like a salad mixing bowl) that is filled with sanitizer (I use a no-rinse). Everything goes in there at the beginning of the water boil. I fill my 6.5 gallon fermenter about 1-2 gallons full of sanitizer and swirl the bottle to coat all the surfaces inside (I do this once every 10min or so to make sure every inch has been touched). This saves on both cost by not having to fill to the brim, and lowers the risk of disaster (6.5 gallons in glass is pretty heavy).

The areas get sprayed down with rubbing alcohol and allowed to evaporate on their own. This is a quick easy way to guarantee a cleaner surface. I also spray the mouth of the fermenter prior to and after pouring in the wort/pitching the yeast.

When I'm ready to use a particular item I remove it from the sanitizer and shake off the water into my sink. Then its ready to go. Less exposure to air and no contact with any surfaces that could harbor mold/yeast/bacteria.

Oh, and the #1 rule for me is gloves. I always wear latex gloves, and change them out whenever I feel they are dirty (touched anything other than the sanitized equipment). Non-latex is probably even better since they are porous to some chemicals. If they just need a quick rinse I'll use the sink, shake off the water, and dip them in the no-rinse. Your skin has so much bacteria on it that a simple wipe of the brow, scratch of the arm, answering the phone, opening the fridge could potentially contaminate your batch.

How's the saying go? A pinch of prevention is worth a pound of cure or some such?

 

[monty73741]

as for paper towls i still gonna stick with them. I dont feel they harbor any real bad bacteria. i think sanitizing you area is more important. I dont believe in gloves. That makes people not was their hands. I have seen it many times in resturants.

also was you hands & use sanitizer.

 

[ibrewdou]

biermuncher has a point, i too have used bleach/water exclusively and have not had a bad batch. my beer buddy used starsan and used a bit too much and didn't rinse, youre not supposed to have to rinse. his beer was perfect except for the bad taste! we decided it was the starsan.he went back to bleach and no problems. he's now carefully using starsan and after a short soak, rinsing well. three batches down since the switch and all good. best of luck

 

[prey]

I guess it depends on the environment then. I have never sanitized at all, only cleaned my equipment and have never gotten a bad batch

 

[7Enigma]

I guess it depends on the environment then. I have never sanitized at all, only cleaned my equipment and have never gotten a bad batch

A lot of people have "won" at russian roulette. But it only takes once to get "lucky".

 

[Desert Monkey]

I use this here BTF Idopher stuff. Never had trouble - it too is no-rinse. Great stuff, works on everything.

Brother is a chef, and he claims it's good for his kitchen too.

 

[yeqmaster]

Thanks a ton to everybody that has posted on this thread!!!(especially forrest!) haha... anyways, im back on the right track and everything is going smooth. I'm doing all grain now and NO CONTAMINATION ISSUES!!! wahooo!!! thanks again.

 

[Saccharomyces]

Sweet! Congrats on kicking it!! ...

 

[DeathBrewer]

so...what was the culprit???

 

[Choguy03]

Yeah, without finding the issue, you pretty much leave us all hanging. Like a bad reality TV show. :cross:

 

[yeqmaster]

Hahaha... yea i guess that was pretty cruel. So I ended up eliminating my bottling bucket out of the process and instead racked over my sugar solution in another carboy. I then used a siphon with bottling attachment to bottle from the carboy. This killed the problem. I examined my bucket (which I had purchased used) and noticed quite a few scratches and such. I concluded that even though I was sanitizing, bacteria was still being held in these scratches. I have heard of cases of this before... somebody might have actually mentioned that in this thread. Anyways, I was lucky that this was the first thing that I eliminated, and it WORKED!!! I have done maybe 4 batches since and they are all AMAZING! so stoked to be back on the right track... I was pretty damn discouraged there for a while. Thanks again guys!

 

[mklawz]

Yegmaster, thanks very much for this thread. I'm having a similar problem here. My first 10 batches were all great. My last 3 have had this overly bitter/astringent taste.
Anyway, I found this thread while researching my problem.

I think my problems are either:

- too concentrated solution of StarSan
- too much chlorine in water
- poor sanitation/cleaning
- C02 issues such as carbonic acid

It's very frustrating, I can totally relate to this thread. Anyway, I'm glad you figured it out. I gotta figure mine out soon, I'm getting very discouraged and I'm almost afraid to brew again...

 

[Yuri_Rage]

- too concentrated solution of StarSan - highly doubtful
- too much chlorine in water - very possible
- poor sanitation/cleaning - very possible
- C02 issues such as carbonic acid - no way

 

[mklawz]

What's frustrating is that the issues seem to have come after making several upgrades to equipment such as: going full-boil, getting a wort chiller, kegging, "mix-stirrer" aeration thingy, etc.. I did better when things were simpler!

Another thing I noticed is that this has really only happened with lighter beers. They say with lighter beers it's harder to hide off-flavors. My next batch will be a middle of the road, amber ale kinda thing so we'll see how that one turns out.

Will campden tablets take care of the chlorine? I'm going to order a water report soon. It should be noted that I'm not doing AG, mostly extracts and a couple partial mashes.

 

[Chip]

I had a similar issue. My beer went sour after my second batch. I struggled to find out what was going on. I even had issues with the primary doing what it should and the airlock liquids being sucked in the bucket. Nothing made sense. Even my local brew shop could not figure it out.

I did three things. First replaced the primary and lid - a cheap fix. Second I worked real hard to rinse out my cleaners with a soft cloth. Last I started using bottled water. Somewhere in the three actions my beer drastically improved.

I have one batch of a simple British Mild bottled that is just super. I made a second batch right on top of the trub and it is in bottles right now conditioning. In fact, its so good I am off to enjoy one while the sun sets.

 

[yeqmaster]

Yegmaster, thanks very much for this thread. I'm having a similar problem here. My first 10 batches were all great. My last 3 have had this overly bitter/astringent taste.

I feel your pain... Like I said before, my problem ended up being sanitation issues. Now that this whole ordeal is over I have realized that you really can never be too careful with your cleaning and sanitizing. I was very very thorough with it and was still getting bad batches. It came down to one element of my setup not being cleaned properly do to minuscule scratches that bacteria was trapped in . I also recommend doing a bleach rinse on all your equipment. As long as you are very thorough with the rinse, this seems to work pretty well. I think that your worry about the water quality is valid as well. Since you are only doing extract and partial mash, I would say try doing a batch with DI water. Find a kit with plenty of extract, this will guarantee your fermentable sugars as well as mineral content which will make up for the lack of minerals in the water.

All thats left to say is stick with it no matter what... I was at that point not all that long ago and I was honestly on the border line of giving up... It was very discouraging... but with the help of all these posts and patience it all worked out... Now im doing all grain batches and they are turning out AMAZING! ull be there soon my friend.

 

[Homercidal]

Sometimes it seems as though the equipment is tougher to use and take care of, but there are literally only a few things that could carry bacteria around after all of that sanitizing. It's almost always plastic, and generally is not worth keeping around when the price of a new bucket or hose is so small.

Heck, I even picked up a couple of Ale Pails off the curb and they seem fine. Better than the bucket I was using.

 

[megaron187]

Just somthing to throw out there. When I lived in southern california, many people had swamp coolers instead of central a/c. Swamp coolers are open air units that work by evaporating water from a cloth screen and blowing air through. These units can get mildew and other molds into the system and circulate it all throughout the household. When I lived in the desert it was very common to walk into a nice cool house and still feel humidity and smell mildew. Just putting it out there as a consideration. As an Ohioan I really noticed the smell. Some Californians that grew up with a swamp cooler their whole life were used to the smell and thought I was crazy.

 

[nymtber]

I went back to bottled water after some little off-tasting stuff in my beers, and so far my Kolsch taste like a Kolsch after 7 weeks fermenting/lagering and 2 weeks in bottle.

I NEVER use anything abrasive on my bottling bucket! Only a soft cloth to clean it and HOT water. I might use easy clean and hot water to soak it well every so often (easy clean works as a sanitizer) but then I rinse well and star-san it anyway.

I think you would have to use at least 2x the recommended amount of Star San to get off flavors from it. After I sanitize carboys, I spray the neck with star san solution and place a sanitized solid stopper in it till I am ready to fill it. Before removing stopper, I again spray around neck with star san solution! You CAN'T overdo sanitizing steps!

Glad to hear it worked better for you. Bottling buckets are cheaper than wasted beer

 

[Getzinator]

This was a really useful thread to read through. It's good to have an actual example of a simple scratch in a bucket ruining batches of beer. I'll never mess with any of them in the future.

@AustinHomeBrew People like you make me happy. It's so awesome to know that there are still good business practices out there.

At the same time, I'm gonna have to say that StarSan is never a problem. Ever. If it seems like it is, then it's something you did wrong. GO STARSAN! :fro: