Back sweeteded cider sat in keg 6 months

[Bobbys]

Brewed a quick cider about 7 months ago, typically I stop it at about 1.010 to 1.012. Rack it and add sorbate + k meta, then add a can or 2 of frozen apple juice concentrate. Typically I bottle and let sit for 4-5 days then pasturize or store in ice cold garage. This time, instead of bottling,I kegged the batch and let it sit at room temps for 6 months. Tried a glass and it seems almost bitter not sweet at all. Did the yeast start up again and clean out all my sugars ? Is there a way to fix this now thats it cold in the keezer ? Was thinking of purging all the co2 out over a day or 2 and trying to back sweeten with more fajc or syrop. Any other thoughts on this ?
Thanks

 

[Yooper]

Brewed a quick cider about 7 months ago, typically I stop it at about 1.010 to 1.012. Rack it and add sorbate + k meta, then add a can or 2 of frozen apple juice concentrate. Typically I bottle and let sit for 4-5 days then pasturize or store in ice cold garage. This time, instead of bottling,I kegged the batch and let it sit at room temps for 6 months. Tried a glass and it seems almost bitter not sweet at all. Did the yeast start up again and clean out all my sugars ? Is there a way to fix this now thats it cold in the keezer ? Was thinking of purging all the co2 out over a day or 2 and trying to back sweeten with more fajc or syrop. Any other thoughts on this ?
Thanks

the sorbate and kmeta should not allow fermentation to recur. I don't know why it's bitter, though. If fermentation did restart, it would be not as sweet, but certainly not bitter.

maybe it had a lot of sediment it sat on, and that is where the bitterness is coming from?

 

[Bobbys]

Maybe bitter is the wrong choice of words, but it's definitely is not sweet at all and maybe slight alcohol taste ? SWMBO does not like it, so must find a fix if possible.

 

[madscientist451]

I'd open the keg and rack it off whatever sediment is in there. Taste it again and see what you've got. If its acceptable as a base, back sweeten from there. Don't know if that will work, but its worth a try.

 

[bembel]

If sounds pretty stable at this point, so as Mad Scientist said, it will make a good base. Personally, when my batches don't turn out as expected, thats when I start experimenting with post fermentation additions to salvage the remains...The Chocolate Milk Theory of cider-making.

If you want to backsweeten it , i'd consider adding some dried fruit that has sugar in it, like cranberries or cherries or blueberries, (Costco) put into a hop bag. There should be enough alcohol in the cider to take care of anything on the dried fruit as long as you use a fresh bag. Use dental floss to suspend the hop bag in your keg and just leave it in there, make sure the PSI is enough to seal the gasket though

Or to keep it tart but add an amazing pink color, id add 1 LBS frozen raspberries in a hop bag, the combo of cool and keg pressure will keep things stable, especially since you dosed with K-meta and sorbate.

Forgot to add, definitely transfer to a new keg, closed container transfer if possible, and make sure the new keg is full of CO2 before you transfer into it. I do not love the smell of acetobacter in the morning.

 

[Bobbys]

Thanks for the suggestions. Can you describe this closed container transfer process ? I was just going to rack it into another keg using regular sanitizing process.

 

[bembel]

Thanks for the suggestions. Can you describe this closed container transfer process ? I was just going to rack it into another keg using regular sanitizing process.

Closed transfer from keg to keg

Make a short liquid post disconnect to liquid post disconnect transfer tube, 18" is fine

Clean and sanitize the empty 'target' keg and cap it with the pressure relief valve open

Fill it with CO2 but connect the gas disconnect from your tank to the liquid intake post CAREFULLY, it does not like to do this without encouragement. This will fill the keg with CO2 from the bottom up.

Then release any pressure in the source keg and connect the liquid to liquid transfer tube to the liquid post of the target keg and then to the source keg.

Now put about 5PSI of gas into the source keg and watch your cider pass from one to the other without ANY oxygen getting involved

 

[madscientist451]

My notion is that there is sediment at the bottom of your keg. I suggested opening the keg and racking it off to avoid stirring up the sediment. I'm not sure how you do a closed transfer without stirring up the bottom of the keg. If you don't have an acetobacter problem now and are going to keep the cider cold, and can avoid oxygenating the cider, you should be fine with a regular racking. Thanks to bembel about the acetobacter comment, I didn't ever worry about that before and so I looked up some information; here's a good article about avoiding off flavors I found: https://winemakermag.com/569-preventing-off-flavors

 

[stella_tigre]

"Brewed a quick cider about 7 months ago, typically I stop it at about 1.010 to 1.012. Rack it and add sorbate + k meta, then add a can or 2 of frozen apple juice concentrate. Typically I bottle and let sit for 4-5 days then pasturize or store in ice cold garage. This time, instead of bottling,I kegged the batch and let it sit at room temps for 6 months."

If you added sorbate etc while there was still active fermentation, (1.010 would probably still be chugging along) and the yeasties kept going, then even with the added concentrate you would be sitting on dry cider. With lees. KMeta + Sorbate does not stop an active fermentation, as I understand it.

Also, if you are going to bottle condition to carbonate and then pasteurize, then adding the sorbate etc before bottling is not useful.

 

[Yooper]

"Brewed a quick cider about 7 months ago, typically I stop it at about 1.010 to 1.012. Rack it and add sorbate + k meta, then add a can or 2 of frozen apple juice concentrate. Typically I bottle and let sit for 4-5 days then pasturize or store in ice cold garage. This time, instead of bottling,I kegged the batch and let it sit at room temps for 6 months."

If you added sorbate etc while there was still active fermentation, (1.010 would probably still be chugging along) and the yeasties kept going, then even with the added concentrate you would be sitting on dry cider. With lees. KMeta + Sorbate does not stop an active fermentation, as I understand it.

Also, if you are going to bottle condition to carbonate and then pasteurize, then adding the sorbate etc before bottling is not useful.

Oh, yes, I missed that. If the cider wasn't finished and clear, the sorbate would do nothing. Good point!

 

[bembel]

A few thoughts on avoiding Acetobacter...

I was very lucky my first 4-5 batches, I did not know enough about acetobacter and that it, being an acid producing bacteria, is pretty resistant to Star San, which is an acid based sanitizer. Then I had one infection due to carelessness and frankly, lazy sanitation habits and had to throw out pretty much everything that came in contact with the infected cider and spent a day cleaning rooms and equipment. Yet I still get infected batches occasionally, even though I am meticulous. Once it gets in your cellar or work area, its not going anywhere and you need to be super diligent, or watch 4 months of work and ingredients turn into salad dressing ( well, damn fine salad dressing right when its getting ready to bottle.

Some small tips I wish I had known a year ago

-Use cheap vodka in airlocks vs. Star San

-Star San PLUS K-meta makes an amazing sanitizer though ( just stinky )

-Once the vigor of the first 3 weeks of fermentation is over, FILL YOUR CARBOY TO THE VERY VERY TOP, with fresh cider or boiled sugar water. I mean, 1-2 inches from the bottom of the plug, even if it is still bubbling and CO2 is being created. Bacteria will get in an airlock and get into your cider, STARVE them of O2.

Basically, you need to assume that the bacteria are already in your cider, (they are), they live on the skins of the apples just like yeast, and the second they have alcohol to metabolize and oxygen to do so, they will start making vinegar out of your cider until they run out of O2.

So by minimizing the amount of O2 that contacts your fermented cider, your keep them in check.

-Use a 3 piece airlock for primary, then switch to a one piece after 3-4 weeks. They work better at the slower rates and are easier to monitor gas production.

-If you use a spray bottle for sanitizing anything like your wine thief before taking a sample, make sure it has at least 30-40 seconds of contact with the sanitizer before using it.

-Sulfites are your friend if used properly. Get a small scale and use powdered K-meta for precise dosing. There is an EXCELLENT chart in Claude Jolicoeur's new book on the ideal PPM of sulfite based on TA and PH for for different stages of cider making as well as how to calculate the amounts needed.

If you ferment in a bucket or container with a spigot, can take a sample without using a wine thief, which is even better, just make sure you do this VERY slowly or the liquid in your air lock will wind up in your cider


IF anyone is interested, you can download a very detailed, useful guide for making sulfite additions, for wine and cider. Got a little off topic here, sorry.

http://www.juicegrape.com/support/articles/Sulfite_-_A_Comprehensive_Guide

 

[stella_tigre]

That is a nice set of info, thanks! I have Claude's book but it's nice to have more than one source.
We pressed some earlier apples, not the best, and the final squeeze gave us a gallon or so of rather low-acid juice. (The initial set of juice was pretty low too.) I added a little extra Kmeta to the big batch, and a single campden to the gallon. Next day, the gallon was perking away! I added a batch of malic acid to both the big and little batch, added some of the yeast I was using to both (might have been EC1118?) The little batch is my "scrumpy" now

Lesson: check your pH and if it's more than 3.6 or so, get some acid in there, and some additional KMeta too.