Avoiding HSA

[TheJadedDog]

So, I'm just wondering what you guys all do to avoid hot side aeration. Do you just use some tubing or are folks using DIY methods?

 

[srm775]

So, I'm just wondering what you guys all do to avoid hot side aeration. Do you just use some tubing or are folks using DIY methods?

It's my belief that HSA is a myth for homebrewers. While it may very well be real for large breweries (pumping thousands of gallons a good distance) for homebrewers, it's a non-issue. Unless you're going to extrodinary lengths to agitate and aerate your pre-boil wort, you shouldn't worry about it. I have a only a small length of vinyl tubing on the spigot of my mashtun ... and that primarily to avoid making a mess and to help catch any extra grain that might slip through.

 

[jezter6]

I'll find out how much it really matters in a few weeks. We had a stuck CFC and had to pour out the brewpot into another kettle with a screen over it to grab the hops, then poured back into the main pot with a spigot to go through the chiller.

It started off like nobody's business with what I would call a very weak starter and is going like CRAZY in fermentation right now.

Unless it's something you plan on aging 6 months or more (which never happen with any of my brews), I doubt it matters.

 

[FSR402]

It's my belief that HSA is a myth for homebrewers. While it may very well be real for large breweries (pumping thousands of gallons a good distance) for homebrewers, it's a non-issue. Unless you're going to extrodinary lengths to agitate and aerate your pre-boil wort, you shouldn't worry about it. I have a only a small length of vinyl tubing on the spigot of my mashtun ... and that primarily to avoid making a mess and to help catch any extra grain that might slip through.

I'm with you...


Really, how can you NOT get it. You put hot water in the MLT then dump in a bunch of grain and you stir the crap out of it with a paddle that has holes in it. Come on, what do you think you are doing right there?

 

[FSR402]

I'll find out how much it really matters in a few weeks. We had a stuck CFC and had to pour out the brewpot into another kettle with a screen over it to grab the hops, then poured back into the main pot with a spigot to go through the chiller.

It started off like nobody's business with what I would call a very weak starter and is going like CRAZY in fermentation right now.

Unless it's something you plan on aging 6 months or more (which never happen with any of my brews), I doubt it matters.

I run all my wort thru a fine stainless steel screen to get all the really small bits of grain or husk out and the sreen is sitting on top of my 15 gallon brew pot. There is a LOT of air getting in there. So far I have not got any off flavors from this.

 

[brewt00l]

I hide under the bed with a flashlight......



Actually, have a couple brews that I have purposefully aerated at different stages to see what, if any, effect will be noticeable. My bet is on the post fermentation aeration becoming the most noticeable. From what I have read online, heard in the basic brewing podcasts on the topic & their experiments (along with Palmer's comments on lipoxygenase @ lower dough in temps), I suspect that HSA is indeed a much exaggerated issue for the homebrewer.

 

[srm775]

I run all my wort thru a fine stainless steel screen to get all the really small bits of grain or husk out and the sreen is sitting on top of my 15 gallon brew pot. There is a LOT of air getting in there. So far I have not got any off flavors from this.

I use a fine mesh grain bag tied onto the end of the hose coming off the spigot. Catches everything, even a lot of hops in pellet form.

 

[TexLaw]

I don't know if HSA is pure myth, but I certainly agree that it really isn't an issue for homebrewers. I've done some pretty effed up stuff to my worts before a boil and before chilling, and I haven't seen any oxidation effects, yet.

I am careful, just in case, but this is homebrewing. Stuff happens. So far, I haven't seen any of that stuff hit the fan.


TL

 

[david_42]

HSA induction for homebrewers (based on the experimentation of a person with way too much grain he needed to use up). After mashing, drain the bed completely and let it sit for 30 minutes. Dump the first sparge water in from 4 feet, splashing a lot. Drain & let the bed sit again. Repeat.

Boil, ferment & keg. Age for a year in your garage.

Result: off-flavors from HSA.

 

[TexLaw]

Well, there ya go!

How powerful were the off flavors?


TL

 

[brewt00l]

HSA induction for homebrewers (based on the experimentation of a person with way too much grain he needed to use up). After mashing, drain the bed completely and let it sit for 30 minutes. Dump the first sparge water in from 4 feet, splashing a lot. Drain & let the bed sit again. Repeat.

Boil, ferment & keg. Age for a year in your garage.

Result: off-flavors from HSA.

...and that pretty much replicates the conditions that have been commonly cited to cause HSA in commercial brewing operations due to excessive splashing and aeration & long term storage prior to consumption that doesn't occur in a normal homebrewing process and consumption cycle.

 

[Soulive]

It's my belief that HSA is a myth for homebrewers. While it may very well be real for large breweries (pumping thousands of gallons a good distance) for homebrewers, it's a non-issue. Unless you're going to extrodinary lengths to agitate and aerate your pre-boil wort, you shouldn't worry about it. I have a only a small length of vinyl tubing on the spigot of my mashtun ... and that primarily to avoid making a mess and to help catch any extra grain that might slip through.

I agree and I'll add that even at the brewpub I work at, we splash the mash (not on purpose) as its entering the kettle. I have never worried about this and its never been an issue for me...
RDWHAHB

 

[Bobby_M]

I've been pouring my runnings into my kettle out of a bucket and I'm sure it aerates the hell out of it. I haven't noticed any off flavors but maybe I just don't know what to taste for. The truth is, I've never had a brew sit around for more than 5 months so...... Maybe it's less of an issue if it happens preboil because after that, I'm very gentle with the wort.

 

[Alamo_Beer]

I know the argument is the oxygen binds to the molecules or whatever...

But wouldn't the boil drive of MOST of the oxygen you added?

 

[TheJadedDog]

I think you all have answered my question, really I am concerned with whether or not I need to use vinyl tubing from my MLT to my kettle, sounds like I'll be fine without it as long as there is not much splashing. Oh, and I will be fly sparging.

 

[Bobby_M]

If your MLT relies on any kind of siphon for draining, you'll absolutely need some tubing on the output.

 

[Soulive]

I know the argument is the oxygen binds to the molecules or whatever...

But wouldn't the boil drive of MOST of the oxygen you added?

Bingo! And I should've mentioned earlier that the HSA will show its ugly mug if you plan on storing the beer for 6+ months. But at my house and at the brewpub, the beers never stick around for more than 3 months

 

[TheJadedDog]

If your MLT relies on any kind of siphon for draining, you'll absolutely need some tubing on the output.

It's a Rubbermaid cooler with SS braid converted per FlyGuys instructions.

 

[FSR402]

Boil, ferment & keg. Age for a year in your garage.

Result: off-flavors from HSA.

So was it really the HSA or was it from the beer sitting in the hot azzed garage all summer with the temp changes every day?
I can buy beer and put it in the garage for a year and it's going to taste like crap. Temp changes in my garage goes from 0* (or lower) up to 110*+. Not uncommon for it to go from 60 to 100 in a 12 hour span.
That CAN NOT be good for the beer.

 

[FSR402]

It a Rubbermaid cooler with SS braid converted per FlyGuys instructions.

Then a hose to get the lowest point below the bottom of the MLT will be a good thing. But all the way to the bottom of the pot is not (IMO) needed.

 

[FlyGuy]

Bingo! And I should've mentioned earlier that the HSA will show its ugly mug if you plan on storing the beer for 6+ months. But at my house and at the brewpub, the beers never stick around for more than 3 months

I suspect this is a key factor to the HSA debate. Undoubtedly, aerating hot wort oxygenates it, yet homebrewers rarely see the effects. Why? Because homebrew stores well because it is usually stored at stable temps (often cool), and keeping the beer on the yeast helps prevent oxidation because yeast are big oxygen scavengers. Plus, homebrew tends to get consumed quickly (at least mine does!)

HSA is likely more of a problem for commercial breweries because their beer doesn't store well -- the oxygen-scavenging yeast is often filtered off, and the beer isn't guaranteed to be kept at stable temps between production and sale. Under these conditions, HSA is most likely to rear its ugly head.

So, unless you filter your beer or bottle bright beer from a keg, and then store it poorly and/or for long periods of time, I bet you won't experience HSA. But if you are kegging from bottles and intend to store that beer, or if you are making a big beer (e.g., barleywine) that you intend to age for a long period of time, or you don't have a place with stable temps to store your beer, I think this could be when you might consider being extra careful about aeration when brewing your beer.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

I avoid HSA by...avoiding HSA. I don't take any extreme precautions because, like many others here, I think HSA is overrated. However, I don't splash my wort around until it's cool.

 

[sullifan]

The one thing that really grabbed me in the Classic Beer Styles Series book 'Mild' was what was said about HSA- not an issue for HB'ers because the beer isn't kept for a great deal of time. I used to do a split boil and would pour the wort back and forth after sparging. I even wrote to Prof. Surfeit about it. He blamed ALL the worries on G. Fix's writings on the subject and assured me that if my beer was good, then all was OK. The other reasons given above (yeast, boiling, etc) are valid points, also. WWJS? (what would (does) Jamil say?)

Sully

 

[david_42]

Actually, FSR, the flavors generated from HSA vs. just long, hot storage are quite different. HSA is referred to as cardboard, whereas long, hot storage is more of a sherry flavor. I was lucky enough to be able to attend an off-flavor seminar a few years ago. We went through over 40 flavor/aromas, which were created by adding specific chemicals to Coors Lite (chosen for the obvious reason of not having any flavor of its own).