average cost differences DIY or purchased

[radiant-designer]

I have been looking at the electric brewery website and would love to have something similar. I am leaning towards the 50A system to future proof myself.

Anyone who has built this, or something similar, I can see that the cost difference for the pre-built VS the kit (at least for the control panel) is going to be abut $1,000. I am curious how much money could be saved by doing the legwork myself. i have an amazon prime account so shipping could be cut down (especially now that they have the Amazon supply)

For reference the 30A prebuilt is $2,154 vs the DIY kit that is $1,420. What could I realistically expect the damage to be if I sourced the parts for the control system myself?


I see a definite advantage to getting it already done and tested, but feel I should look at ever option to compare them each to.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Only way you'll know that is to start sourcing the parts. Granted, he may get them in bulk discount since he makes multiple units.

 

[rvklein]

I sourced everything myself (Kal wasn't selling kits at the time) and probably spent $1,200.

Having done everything myself, $2100 for a fully built panel is a bargain.

 

[radiant-designer]

I sourced everything myself (Kal wasn't selling kits at the time) and probably spent $1,200.

Having done everything myself, $2100 for a fully built panel is a bargain.

How long did it take you?

Im not so put off by the time or the work to do it myself, since right now I am renting and not really sure if I will be able to power everything just yet, and getting married in less than 6 months is eating up a lot of my extra cash.

Budget is a bit of a concern. I do agree there is a LOT to be said to get a unit already done and known to be working properly and not having to chase the electrical gremlins if something isnt working correctly.


That being said I believe between myself and my father I would have every tool needed and I am not afraid of building something myself, and can see a huge source of pride (just like brewing your own)


they are estimating that the 50A units would be about $2700

 

[CidahMastah]

Doing a kal build or similar takes time and considerable work (just a consideration). If you want to put your stamp on it, then it takes more time to plan, etc. However for me the time it took to plan and the design I came up with for my second control panel was exactly built to brew the way I want to brew and if something breaks or acts funny I know exactly how to trouble shoot it. My panel also has functionality beyond that of the standard kal panel (can run 2 5500w elements at once). For me it was the only choice because I wanted to learn, and build a control panel that suited my cobrewer and I's brewing needs.

All that said I sourced some parts from Kal and a ton from ebay. I think overall parts have gone down since a lot of people are taking on these builds. It has created market demand and thus competition. I remember I couldn't find a pilot light for my right for under $18 shipped when I built my first panel. This time I was able to get them for $3.99 each.

It probably took me 3-4 months to design (and collect parts) and 2 weeks or less to build.

 

[radiant-designer]

Only way you'll know that is to start sourcing the parts. Granted, he may get them in bulk discount since he makes multiple units.

Understood, but if I was going to go fully at this I would try to do a lot more research and talk to MANY suppliers to see if I could get any better deals than maybe list price online or wherever. Also watching for price changes over a period of time.


I was hoping someone could say something to the effect of "I sourced my own, I paid X, which was 10% less (or more, or whatever) than the DIY kit"

 

[radiant-designer]

Doing a kal build or similar takes time and considerable work (just a consideration). If you want to put your stamp on it, then it takes more time to plan, etc. However for me the time it took to plan and the design I came up with for my second control panel was exactly built to brew the way I want to brew and if something breaks or acts funny I know exactly how to trouble shoot it. My panel also has functionality beyond that of the standard kal panel (can run 2 5500w elements at once). For me it was the only choice because I wanted to learn, and build a control panel that suited my cobrewer and I's brewing needs.

All that said I sourced some parts from Kal and a ton from ebay. I think overall parts have gone down since a lot of people are taking on these builds. It has created market demand and thus competition. I remember I couldn't find a pilot light for my right for under $18 shipped when I built my first panel. This time I was able to get them for $3.99 each.

It probably took me 3-4 months to design (and collect parts) and 2 weeks or less to build.

I like that it can be designed to suit what you need. I dont foresee needing to run all the coils at once but I do like the idea that I can if I ever wanted to.

 

[CidahMastah]

I was hoping someone could say something to the effect of "I sourced my own, I paid X, which was 10% less (or more, or whatever) than the DIY kit"

I think that while this sounds like a reasonable request, a lot of people buy and add on as they go. I have rough estimates of what I spent. However I literally could be off hundreds of dollars at the end of the day. It is for sure cheaper to build your own if you look for deals, collect parts across time and discount all your labor and time spent. But if you add up the labor and time spent hunting for parts it would ultimately be cheaper to just buy a prebuilt panel or build a kit from Kal IMO. i.e. I think building the panel is more about the pride at the end of the build than it is about being efficient or saving money. Since you have a lot of the tools that really helps lower the build cost as well.

keep in mind even if you buy a kal panel prebuilt you will have plenty of DIYer work to get your pots up to your ebuild standard with your element installs, probe install, etc.

I like that it can be designed to suit what you need. I dont foresee needing to run all the coils at once but I do like the idea that I can if I ever wanted to.

I do 11g batches (often back to back) that a buddy and I split. Having the ability to run two elements at once allows for seamless back to back brew sessions. The cost isn't that much more for the panel components, but for us it has been a night and day difference. It will also allow us to install a second element and brew larger batches down the road. Truly not for everyone though

 

[rvklein]

How long did it take you?

Im not so put off by the time or the work to do it myself, since right now I am renting and not really sure if I will be able to power everything just yet, and getting married in less than 6 months is eating up a lot of my extra cash.

Budget is a bit of a concern. I do agree there is a LOT to be said to get a unit already done and known to be working properly and not having to chase the electrical gremlins if something isnt working correctly.


That being said I believe between myself and my father I would have every tool needed and I am not afraid of building something myself, and can see a huge source of pride (just like brewing your own)


they are estimating that the 50A units would be about $2700

Forever. I hope that's not too vague!

 

[P-J]

I like that it can be designed to suit what you need. I dont foresee needing to run all the coils at once but I do like the idea that I can if I ever wanted to.

You might want to consider a DIY build setup to your specific needs.

Here is an Excel spread sheet that gives you links to specific parts and vendors for a relatively easy build.
Brewparts_Order-1.xls

I believe the thing missing in the list (besides kettles, pumps, etc.) is the box for the controller. (total +/- $600.00)

If you want to go this route, I'd be glad to provide a wiring diagram to fit your specific plan. Just let me know what you decide.

P-J

 

[radiant-designer]

But if you add up the labor and time spent hunting for parts it would ultimately be cheaper to just build a prebuilt panel from Kal IMO. i.e. I think building the panel is more about the pride at the end of the build than it is about being efficient or saving money.

I think the time and labor put into as an investment, not a cost

It would be cheaper for me to buy commercial beer than to brew my own sometimes, especially if I factored time into it.

I figure if I can save some cash, have a better idea of ho wit all works, and have something thats truly MINE then its a win win. If I can save myself a few hundred bucks (and then donate some of that back to the electric brewery for the help and inspiration) then whats to lose?

My main reason for asking was becuase if it turned out that sourcing all your parts ended up only saving someone like $50 vs the DIY kit that they offer, then its not worth my time to source everything, I would build it from the kit.

The inner impatient kid in me wants to just buy a prebuilt one and be done, but the inner tinkerer and engineer in me wants to modify the design and build it myself. if I can save some cash too then even better!

 

[radiant-designer]

You might want to consider a DIY build setup to your specific needs.

Here is an Excel spread sheet that gives you links to specific parts and vendors for a relatively easy build.
Brewparts_Order-1.xls

I believe the thing missing in the list (besides kettles, pumps, etc.) is the box for the controller. (+/- $600.00)

If you want to go this route, I'd be glad to provide a wiring diagram to fit your specific plan. Just let me know what you decide.

P-J

WOW! that saved me a LOT of work and time! thanks, I def owe you a Beer sir!

why are some of the QTYs not listed? just curious.

 

[radiant-designer]

For those of you who have already gone this route what should I think about before I begin?

Currently I am going to do approx 10 gallon batches, using 20 gallon pots, but in the interest of saving some upgrades in the future I was thinking of going with the 50A right off the bat.

I am also thinking of adding the autosparge (since I have one already might as well include it)

I am also thinking of going with a bigger box to make things easier on myself such as a 20x20x6

any other thoughts/recommendations?

 

[CidahMastah]

I think the time and labor put into as an investment, not a cost

agreed - was playing the devil's advocate.

IMO the only way to go is to build your own. But then again I love learning new things, and was willing to take it all on. Some people aren't but you sure sound like you are. Good luck!


I would go with an 8'' deep or more box. Depending on the way you set up your build you could have clearance issues with your PIDs and contactors/other components you install.

I would take a good amount of time to just think about what you want to do, and how you want to do it. Do you want a RIMS, eHERMS, etc. Think about a step by step brew day and how you would like to control it from pumps to elements to alarms.

 

[P-J]

WOW! that saved me a LOT of work and time! thanks, I def owe you a Beer sir!

why are some of the QTYs not listed? just curious.

It is a master spread sheet that can be navigated (Use the 'tab' & 'back tab' key) to go to the fields that can be changed. Most of the sheet is protected.
The second page shows how to setup GFCI protection depending on your power source.

I've drawn hundreds of diagrams and often try to help with sourcing components. So, depending the build, different items are required.

P-J

 

[radiant-designer]

Now the mad scientist in me is taking over.....

Definitely going to do this right and plan before I begin.

Any thoughts or suggestions from anyone who has done this before?

Hey P-J I will definetly take you up on the offer to help, you're in NC? If I am in the area I will look you up for a few rounds, and/or if you have paypal I would gladly send you some cash to cover a few. Or if there is anything up here that you cant get there let me know and I can see what I can get to ship down to you (Sorry Kate the Great is long gone....this year)

 

[P-J]

Now the mad scientist in me is taking over.....

Definitely going to do this right and plan before I begin.

Any thoughts or suggestions from anyone who has done this before?

Figure out your power source and location and then decide on the power feed to your brewery. It is different for a 30A-240V feed as opposed to a 50A-240V feed. The difference is if you intend to do single or back to back batches. Next? How many pumps? Plus more 'stuff'.

Hey P-J I will definetly take you up on the offer to help, you're in NC? If I am in the area I will look you up for a few rounds, and/or if you have paypal I would gladly send you some cash to cover a few. Or if there is anything up here that you cant get there let me know and I can see what I can get to ship down to you (Sorry Kate the Great is long gone....this year)

I really appreciate the offer. However there is no need at all. This is something I really enjoy doing.

I think you can end up with a really nice brewery that YOU build and fully understand.

P-J

 

[BWN]

Just keep in mind when you are building, that you will need more than just your control panel. If you already had a 2 tier or single tier propane system it will be a lot easier on your wallet. If not you need a stand, pumps, power source, pots or kegs for BK and HLT, MLT, chiller, various valves and fittings.

 

[P-J]

Just keep in mind when you are building, that you will need more than just your control panel. If you already had a 2 tier or single tier propane system it will be a lot easier on your wallet. If not you need a stand, pumps, power source, pots or kegs for BK and HLT, MLT, chiller, various valves and fittings.

That is very true. However I think he is talking about Kal's controller. No?

 

[radiant-designer]

I figured the controller would be the heart of everything. I understand i will need the pumps and so on. i have 1 blichmann 20 gal with a false bottom and will be getting 2 more.

 

[CidahMastah]

I figured the controller would be the heart of everything. I understand i will need the pumps and so on. i have 1 blichmann 20 gal with a false bottom and will be getting 2 more.

Take a look at the kettles at stout kettles and tanks. Very nice prices, have been rated on par or better than blichmann pots by many users. Especially if you have some time to wait for their arrival.

 

[mcl]

For a point of reference, I have $981 in my 50 amp, Kal clone, control box. That includes shipping on all items. If you have trouble finding something let me know and I can point you to a supplier.

 

[BWN]

I figured the controller would be the heart of everything. I understand i will need the pumps and so on. i have 1 blichmann 20 gal with a false bottom and will be getting 2 more.

I know, I just thought I would throw that out since you were comparing costs. Didn't know if cost was a major factor to you or not.

 

[jtkratzer]

I didn't want something as elaborate as Kal's build and wanted to run two 5500W 240V elements at the same time. I also took this as an opportunity to learn about something I was really inexperienced with. I've learned a lot and that's more valuable than just buying prebuilt. I also know what each component does and where I'll need to look for issues if there are any.

 

[jtkratzer]

I think that while this sounds like a reasonable request, a lot of people buy and add on as they go. I have rough estimates of what I spent. However I literally could be off hundreds of dollars at the end of the day. It is for sure cheaper to build your own if you look for deals, collect parts across time and discount all your labor and time spent. But if you add up the labor and time spent hunting for parts it would ultimately be cheaper to just buy a prebuilt panel or build a kit from Kal IMO. i.e. I think building the panel is more about the pride at the end of the build than it is about being efficient or saving money. Since you have a lot of the tools that really helps lower the build cost as well.

keep in mind even if you buy a kal panel prebuilt you will have plenty of DIYer work to get your pots up to your ebuild standard with your element installs, probe install, etc.

I do 11g batches (often back to back) that a buddy and I split. Having the ability to run two elements at once allows for seamless back to back brew sessions. The cost isn't that much more for the panel components, but for us it has been a night and day difference. It will also allow us to install a second element and brew larger batches down the road. Truly not for everyone though

Yeah...I bought a lot all at once but have had a few changes along the way. Every system has its own individuality and that changes things. I started with a complete, but in need of TLC Sabco Brew Magic and that's kind of unique for an electric build.

I've watched for sales, used a military discount, worked some crack deals for stuff at big box stores (70' of 6 gauge wire for the price of 55 and 10% off that because it was precut and pretty useless for anything other than a project like the one we're working).

It can add up in a hurry if you want it to.

 

[radiant-designer]

I have done enough projects with my 1959 VW and my 1977 Datsun to know how quickly the "little" things add up.

First step is planning.
I dont see myself doing back-to-back brews in the near future, that would make for a long brew day. I had thought of it when I had a great deal on a 27 Gallon Conical, but I passed on it becuase I didnt want to have it taking up space for a year before I got to that point, at this point i think 10 Gallons is more than enough and if I do decide to go that big then I think it would make more sense for me to get bigger kettles (unless i wanted to do different styles in one day, but again I am not seeing that for the next year or more)

 

[CidahMastah]

I dont see myself doing back-to-back brews in the near future, that would make for a long brew day.

Not trying to sway you, but a double brew day doesn't add much time if you have a three pot set up. Basically it adds the boil time of the second batch since you mash your second batch while the first is boiling.

So expect a double brew day to add about an hour to an hour and a half on top of your typical session. I think we have cranked out a batch at best around 4 hrs, so you go from 4 hrs to say 5.5 hrs. Not bad if you consider that means you get two styles brewed in one day.

 

[radiant-designer]

Very true that it wouldnt be a double brew day, but for just 1 to 3 people drinking it (and not in that great QTY) I dont foresee myself brewing more than 10 gallons for a while... I mean if I could build it in to future proof myself and add a small cost then I probable would.

 

[Durhamite]

Just throwing this out there.

I'm finishing up my eHerms system right now. I went with two 5500w elements, and wired it all up to support "back to back" brewing so that I can fire both elements at the same time if I wanted to.

Total cost so far is just under $800.

This includes the panel, switches, lights, wiring, contactors, SSR's, PID, PWM circuit, power cables, plugs, adapters, 50A spa panel (GFCI), Chugger pump, hoses, quick disconnects, 5500w elements (x2), float switches, RTD, and basically everything else you need EXCEPT the keggles/diptubes/mash tun(cooler).

Hope this helps!

 

[Bsquared]

I think I've said this a few times, but if you are going to build your own control pannel look into a water jet cutting facility near you. All the tools and dies for cutting the holes for the components in to the control panel is similar in cost plus the water jet cutting facility will do it much more precise and clean on their C&C system.