Auto-siphon with glass carboy

[surista]

After drinking some of my Blood Moon IPA homebrew, a neighbor decided to try his hand at brewing. Rather than just dipping his toe in, he jumped in head-first, spending a small fortune to build a small brewery in his kitchen LOL

Anyway - last night I get a frantic call and head over to his house. He had apparently been doing primary fermentation in a glass carboy (which, it must be admitted, are damn cool), but was now trying to transfer to a secondary fermenter for dry hopping. Only problem is, the auto-siphon only reaches part of the way into the narrow neck, due to the curved, hard plastic section at the top of the siphon.

So he's sitting with an open plastic fermenter on the floor half-filled with beer, an open glass carboy on the table also half-filled with beer, and asking for the best way to transfer the rest of the beer - he's obviously worried about oxidation from splashing the beer around.

At this point I figure that there is no 'good' alternative, and that yes, splashing the beer around isn't great, but having it sit open for Og knows how long isn't much better. So tell him to bite the bullet and just pour the rest of the liquid in to the carboy, splashing be damned, throw the hops in and screw on the plastic fermenter cover. So that's what we did.

Main question is how bad will this be for the beer?

 

[flars]

There is a fair chance his beer is oxidized, unless there was a good amount of CO2 in solution yet. The CO2 leaving solution in the secondary vessel may scrub some of the oxygen from the beer.

Just in case, don't let this one sit around to long after it is fully carbonated. Off tastes from oxidation get worse with time.

He also needs to buy the 26 inch auto siphon for the large carboys.

Hope I'm wrong about the chance of oxidation.

 

[philosofool]

We shall see. Live yeast will eat up that oxygen, so it's really a matter of how much splashing there was--can the yeast eat up the O2 before the chemical reactions get bad?

In the future and for others, the thing to do is probably seal both fermenters and wait until you have proper equipment. It takes days for O2 in half a growler to oxidize a beer and that growler doesn't have much live yeast in it. I would think the pouring approach is much more of an oxidation risk.

 

[kh54s10]

It does sound like he has the wrong autosiphon... I use 6 gallon Better Bottles that are about the same as glass carboys. (1/2 gallon smaller). My autosiphon reaches the bottom easily. I tip the carboy a little to pool the wort in the corner allowing me to get more of the wort than if I left it sitting flat.

The beer in question is likely oxidized. I suggest dry hopping on the short end, maybe 3-5 days. Bottle it and check for carbonation often. As soon as it is well carbonated, chill all the bottles and drink them quickly. Any wet cardboard flavor (oxidation) will get worse with age.

 

[MagicMatt]

I didn't see anyone mention this so I will, but it sounds like your neighbor is doing it backwards. Most of us don't secondary at all, but when you do, you want to do it in the glass carboy, not a bucket. Buckets are for primary fermentation only, as they are not air tight and will allow oxygen to permeate the bucket and reach the beer over a relatively short period.

The reason they are OK to use for primary is that the yeast are so active that it should reduce the amount of oxygen that reaches the beer since it's constantly putting off CO2.

 

[SmokeyMcBong]

have him boil a little dme and add it to secondary for a refermentation that will allow the yeast to use up the added oxygen...

 

[philosofool]

have him boil a little dme and add it to secondary for a refermentation that will allow the yeast to use up the added oxygen...

Yeast will absorb and use oxygen for biosyntheic reactions and can respire it, even in the absence of fermentable sugars. At this point, it would not help and it would mean waiting for extratime before bottling.

 

[Calder]

We shall see. Live yeast will eat up that oxygen, so it's really a matter of how much splashing there was--can the yeast eat up the O2 before the chemical reactions get bad?

Not sure I believe this. I saw your next post too. The yeast are done, and most have been left in the primary fermenter so are of no help with O2 in the secondary.

have him boil a little dme and add it to secondary for a refermentation that will allow the yeast to use up the added oxygen...

Again, I'm not sure this does anything. yeast use the O2 during reproduction. The yeast are already there, and I'm not sure you will get any reproduction when you add the additional sugars. You will generate CO2 in the headspace that may help, but I'm not sure it will scrub much dissolved CO2.


I'm no expert. Both these guys may be right, but personally I'm not convinced either of these will help.


My recommendation is to get the beer in bottles as soon as you can and don't save any for the long haul. Oxidation/staling takes a while, so you should not notice anything in relatively fresh beer. Drink it quickly. .... it's a hoppy beer, so it is supposed to be drunk young.


I don't have an autosiphon. Just another device that can give problems (like this). I just wrap my hand around the end of the tube (like a fist) and suck, has worked fine for the past 30+years. My mouth doesn't come in contact with the end of the tube, so no contamination, and my hand is well cleaned as it has been in and out of sanitizer lots of times by the time I siphon. I use long canes that can get to the bottom of all my fermenters. You could have cut the tubing above the autosiphon and used the tubing to make a new siphon and minimized aeration.

 

[orangehero]

Yeast provide protection from oxidation and can metabolize and reduce the oxidation-derived off-flavor compounds. It's reasonable to think giving the yeast a little metabolic boost would have some benefits in this regard.

My bet is that the beer will be fine anyway, although that also depends on the style, strength, and color.

 

[DurtyChemist]

Sounds like he bought the auto siphone for 3 gallon batches. He needs a bigger auto siphon. Also dry hopping in a glass carbon can be difficult because the hops swell then become a rather interesting task to remove pre or post racking. I would tell him to dry hop in the primary with a hop sack so you don't disturb the yeast and it will help keep his beer clean. If he bottles tell him to add some gelatin in with his bottling bucket after he has added the sugar.