Attention new all grain brewers!

[emjay]

I use a cordless drill on my Barley Crusher just fine

And I have to go on it pretty gently at that... I can mow through an entire hopper in a matter of seconds, but going that fast shreds the husks too much.

 

[DHUKILL]

Since I do 5-gal batches in my 10-gal MLT, though, I've cut out a piece of thick styrofoam that rests on top of the mash. This not only cuts the dead-air head space in the MLT, further insulating the mash, but it gives me something to stick my thermometer probe in so it sits perfectly in the grains.

I am adding to an old thread but this quote made me wonder if this is the source of my problems with 50-60% efficiency. Is this dead space in my 10 gal cooler the issue? I've double and triple checked all other processes and this is the last possibility that I have been wondering about. So much so that I am going back to my 5 gal tun and do smaller batches. I didn't seem to have any problems with that setup. I use Beersmith and follow those recommendations and temps right on target. I monitor alll my temps with a digital therm. Crush grains at .39. I've batch and fly sparged nothing seems to get me up past 50-55%. I regularly miss my FG by 15-20 points. Any thoughts?

 

[masonsjax]

Have you checked the pH of your water?

 

[DHUKILL]

Our PH is 9.75. I use 5.2 but have just started hearing that stuff doesn't work?? Since I have been using it I haven't tested it. Any thoughts on what I should use to bring it down?

 

[masonsjax]

Try doing a batch with store bought water, see if you get any improvement. If so, you've found your culprit and can start working out how to address it.

 

[DHUKILL]

Will do! Thanks for the suggestion. I will post back after my next batch

 

[cpbraun]

So... yea, new to the all grain brewing... two batches done no beer done yet...
I bought a watercooler and converted to a mash tun after trying Papazians Zapap(?) sparger (a bucket with a hundred holes in it)

My Questions:

1)How do I know if the grain I bought needs a "protein rest" ?

2) Flavor and body variations from Mash temp: What kind of numbers are we talking about here? 145-155?

OPEN,OPEN, OPEN to any and all advice.
I love doing this and would like to do it forever! (beer, not the blog questions)
:rockin::rockin::rockin:

 

[Denny]

1) Almost no grains out there require a protein rest these days. Especially if you're using pale malt. It's essentially been done during the mqlting process. You have to go out of your way to find a malt that's undermodified enough to need or benefit from a p rest.

 

[DblTrbl500]

If I have a recipe with 12 pounds of grains, that would be 3.75 gallons for the mash. But then 1.2 gallon per pound for the sparge would add another 6 gallons, totaling nearly 10 gallons for the boil. It is supposed to be a 5 gallon batch. Where am I going wrong?
Thanks!

 

[brettwasbtd]

If I have a recipe with 12 pounds of grains, that would be 3.75 gallons for the mash. But then 1.2 gallon per pound for the sparge would add another 6 gallons, totaling nearly 10 gallons for the boil. It is supposed to be a 5 gallon batch. Where am I going wrong?
Thanks!

Grain absorbtion is approximately .125 gallons per pound of grain. So 12 .125 = 1.5 gallons absorbed by the grain. So you would be able to get 2.25 (3.75 - 1.5) gallons of wort out of that. Sparge with a remaining volume X so you reach your target pre boil volume. 2.25 + X = Y

I like to collect 7.5 gallon to start my boil. evaporate of 1.5 gallons in an hour boil and arrive at my 6 gallon planned batch size. In the equation above my X value would be 5.25 gallons of sparge water to equal my pre boil of 7.5

 

[chrisinpgh]

Fellow HB's...well I ventured into my first AG brew last weekend! My issue is that I used an insane amount of hops (hopburst ale) 16oz to 6 gal wort...the filtration is not as good as I would have liked. I am seeing the TRUB as a mostly green tan appearance. I am wondering, with so much hop sludge is there a better filter to use or should I switch to hop extracts? I want to maintain the integrity of the brew by using real hops but my filter is just not catching as much as I think it should..any help is appreciated!
thanks :rockin:

 

[Mysticmead]

Fellow HB's...well I ventured into my first AG brew last weekend! My issue is that I used an insane amount of hops (hopburst ale) 16oz to 6 gal wort...the filtration is not as good as I would have liked. I am seeing the TRUB as a mostly green tan appearance. I am wondering, with so much hop sludge is there a better filter to use or should I switch to hop extracts? I want to maintain the integrity of the brew by using real hops but my filter is just not catching as much as I think it should..any help is appreciated!
thanks :rockin:

The trub isn't going to hurt anything. when you rack it to keg/secondary/bottling bucket you'll leave it all behind

 

[chigundo]

Grain absorbtion is approximately .125 gallons per pound of grain. So 12 .125 = 1.5 gallons absorbed by the grain. So you would be able to get 2.25 (3.75 - 1.5) gallons of wort out of that. Sparge with a remaining volume X so you reach your target pre boil volume. 2.25 + X = Y

I like to collect 7.5 gallon to start my boil. evaporate of 1.5 gallons in an hour boil and arrive at my 6 gallon planned batch size. In the equation above my X value would be 5.25 gallons of sparge water to equal my pre boil of 7.5

You evaporate 1.5 gallons / hour???

 

[DHUKILL]

"Try doing a batch with store bought water, see if you get any improvement. If so, you've found your culprit and can start working out how to address it."

I have brewed two batches with my old 5 gallon cooler.

One with tap water and one with store bought water

53 % efficiency on one batch and 59% on the last batch. I'm now wondering if fly sparging and or switching to a false bottom will help?
I currently have a 1/2" stainless braid for my 5 gallon and a 1" for my 10 gallon tun.

3 gal and 5 gal batch procedures: ( water quantity is the only variable)
Heat water to 163. Usually around 5 gal, but follow Beersmith
Add my grain ( crushed to .39). Add 5.2 and stir for 3-4 mins,
Insert temp probe to monitor temps inside Tun. Always hit 150-152 and hold for 60 minutes. ( last batch was 75 mins).
I then drain slowly (vorlof) 4 quarts and add back in, pouring through collander.
I then drain slowly at first and then open valve all the way. To fully drain tun.
I then add sparge water. 180 degree. Around 3 gallons. I stir 4-5 mins and then vorlof again just like above. Drain slowly and then open valve fully. I measure collected wort and take prevail gravity.

Anything stick out as the source for my poor efficiency?

Thanks!

 

[Mysticmead]

Add my grain ( crushed to .39).
Add 5.2 and stir for 3-4 mins,
Insert temp probe to monitor temps inside Tun.

Anything stick out as the source for my poor efficiency?

Thanks!

stop using 5.2. it doesn't stabilize your PH at 5.2. think about it. How does the company making it know what your starting PH is? How do they know what type of grain you're using? They don't and can't adjust your PH magically by adding one product. Besides if you search here you'll find PLENTY of posts about how it didn't work.

When you tried store bought water, did you adjust the water at all? Other than 5.2? Was it distilled water? or spring water? If distilled you need to add salts back into it. Check the water chemistry section to learn more about that. TW, A lot of the store bought "Spring Water" really comes from a city water source, you know... tap water

if you crush your own grains, try conditioning the grain and then crushing at a finer setting.

 

[DHUKILL]

stop using 5.2. it doesn't stabilize your PH at 5.2. think about it. How does the company making it know what your starting PH is? How do they know what type of grain you're using? They don't and can't adjust your PH magically by adding one product. Besides if you search here you'll find PLENTY of posts about how it didn't work.

When you tried store bought water, did you adjust the water at all? Other than 5.2? Was it distilled water? or spring water? If distilled you need to add salts back into it. Check the water chemistry section to learn more about that. TW, A lot of the store bought "Spring Water" really comes from a city water source, you know... tap water

if you crush your own grains, try conditioning the grain and then crushing at a finer setting.

Thanks for the feedback. I have researched the 5.2 topic and even mentioned it in my previous post that I have started to doubt the validity of the claims. I agree with you on "how could this work"? But got suckered in when I first started brewing and didn't know any better


The water I bought was spring water which has a PH of 6.

Http://www.crystalgeyser.com/docs/bottled_water_report_arkansas_colgrove.pdf

After running these numbers through the EZ water calculator, it says my mash was 5.65.

This leaves me with double crushing or narrowing the gap of my mill just a tiny bit to see if this helps.

 

[Mysticmead]

This leaves me with double crushing or narrowing the gap of my mill just a tiny bit to see if this helps.

look into conditioning the grain.. its real easy to do and will allow you to go MUCH tighter on the gap while leaving the husks mostly intact (which is needed for the filter bed)
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/if-you-not-conditioning-your-grain-check-out-255860/

 

[psubrewer]

5.2 is a Ph buffer. It generally works to keep the Ph of your mash from falling below 5.2,regardless of starting point. I say generally because if you have a abnormal water profile or a grain bill with large amounts of roasted malts it may not do the job well enough. IMO, using 5.2 is a good alternative to doing nothing. Understanding your water profile and grain bill and adjusting accordingly is best.

 

[DHUKILL]

look into conditioning the grain.. its real easy to do and will allow you to go MUCH tighter on the gap while leaving the husks mostly intact (which is needed for the filter bed)
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/if-you-not-conditioning-your-grain-check-out-255860/

I ran about 6 lbs through my mill last night and ended up with complete husk intact. I'm going to dial down the mill to .25 and run the other half through for my next batch.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll post back my efficiency next week. Cheers!!

 

[DHUKILL]

I ran about 6 lbs through my mill last night and ended up with complete husk intact. I'm going to dial down the mill to .25 and run the other half through for my next batch.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll post back my efficiency next week. Cheers!!

For those who haven't tried conditioning their grains, this is one of the best tips I have received on HBT for improving efficiency. I brewed up a Pale Ale (all hopped up of course) and got 71% efficiency for the first time. Conditioning allowed me to tighten up to .20 gap on my mill. I may try to tighten up a little more to see if I can get even more efficiency next time. :rockin:

 

[Jakeintoledo]

Gotcha. Thanks for the insight!

Austin

I just looked at your picture gallery. I am also a novice fabricator/welder, and I dearly wish to follow in your footsteps.

I shall also grow hops.

 

[mike_in_ak]

Two questions:

1) What's the rate of boil off?

2) iodine test vs mash time/temp: if my calculations or recipe says mash at 154 for one hour, how does the iodine test factor? If I still show starch present after an hour, should I keep mashing?

 

[mike_in_ak]

Scratch question number one. Google and hbt show no easy answer to that one.

 

[Mysticmead]

Two questions:

1) What's the rate of boil off?

2) iodine test vs mash time/temp: if my calculations or recipe says mash at 154 for one hour, how does the iodine test factor? If I still show starch present after an hour, should I keep mashing?

1) easy answer. put 5 gallons of water in your kettle. boil for 1 hour. measure the amount left. that's your boil off.

2) if iodine shows starches present, keep mashing. the time given in a recipe is what the creator of that recipe used to achieve conversion. it might be longer for you.

 

[jtkratzer]

1) easy answer. put 5 gallons of water in your kettle. boil for 1 hour. measure the amount left. that's your boil off.

This changes with atmospheric changes. It may require more or less heat to achieve a boil depending on air temp and humidity which will change the boil off rate.

Running a test like you suggest will get you close, but without controlled conditions, it will be an estimate. Should be a close one, but it won't be exact.

 

[Mysticmead]

This changes with atmospheric changes. It may require more or less heat to achieve a boil depending on air temp and humidity which will change the boil off rate.

Running a test like you suggest will get you close, but without controlled conditions, it will be an estimate. Should be a close one, but it won't be exact.

as you said it changes with atmospheric conditions...which of course change all the time. there is no way to get an exact boil off rate even with controlled conditions because as soon as you leave those conditions, it will change. however, it will get you close enough to make beer . With time and many brews under your belt you will earn your equipment. Mine for instance I know I boil off more in the winter than the summer. This is because the air is less humid in the winter. so I account for that by adding a little extra to my boil volume.

 

[jrodskreet]

thanks

 

[mikescooling]

Lots of new AG brewers find low OG's (.030) so picking your first brew as an APA would be a good idea or at least adding 1 or2 extra pounds of two row to up the ABV. If it's a little high great, if it's not it will still be a good beer.

 

[kodyind]

I've seen a lot of threads started concerning problems with peoples first all grain brews.
I would like to give a couple suggestions that might help improve the process for new AG brewers. Here are a couple common problems I've seen:

1. Low efficiency.
I have found that the most common thread here is not using enough water during mashing and sparging. All you need to do is figure 1 to 1 1/4 quarts of water per pound of grain for the mash and about 1/2 gallon of water per pound of grain for sparging.
I think some folks are concerned about too much wort volume when they are figuring how much water to use but if you want decent efficiency you have to use the correct amount of water.
If your brew pot isn't big enough for the volume required you will need to compensate by using more grain and know that your efficiency will be lower. (You will want to use the 1 to 1 1/4 quart per pound of grain for the mash and adjust your sparge water for the volume required)
If you have a large enough brew pot you will need to calculate the boil time so you will have the correct volume when completed. Some high gravity brews can take 2 hours or more to boil down to the correct volume.
2. Missing the mash temperature. (Usually low when using cooler type mash tuns)
To avoid this common problem there are two things I suggest:
1. Pre-heat your mash tun with hot or boiling water. This water is drained from the tun right before the strike water is added. Using this method will pre-heat the tun so not as much heat will be pulled from the strike water when added .
2. Heat your strike water about 2 or 3 degrees above your target temp, pour the water into the tun, and let the temp drop to your target. By the time you reach your strike temp, the tun should be conditioned and when the grains are mixed in you will hit your desired mash temp and it will hold longer.

I hope this helps for you first timers or even folks who are struggling with AG brewing.

Rich,
I am new to AG and i have a quesion about a recipe that i want to try. It is a Bourbon Vanilla Porter and it has 16 lbs of grain is how much water would you use to sparge for a 5 gal batch

 

[user 51917]

that question is not that easy to answer you need 1 1/3 to 1 1/4 quarts to each pound of grain
then to figure out sparge water you need to factor in absorbtion loss, dead space in your tun, your boil off rate loss to trub in boil pot and fermentor

add all that up and subtract mash water to get that answer