Arrogant Clone CYBI

[Catch-22]

Looking for Crystal 150 and not having luck. Help please

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Looking for Crystal 150 and not having luck. Help please

We use 120L for our clone and it is spot on and readily available.

I think the only 150L crystal available is from Munton's and they don't call it 150L crystal. I think it is their dark crystal.

Forrest

 

[Catch-22]

Thanks Forrest

 

[Christian]

Looking for Crystal 150 and not having luck. Help please

Go to Arts downtown he has it. At least he did last i was in there. 642 S. Washington St or call him 801-533-8029 ART'S BREWING SUPPLIES

 

[COLObrewer]

I believe Hugh Baird has 135-165L crystal. Might also be listed as dark crystal?

Edit, Correction: it is 130-165L and it IS called Dark Crystal.

 

[SPLASTiK]

Great Western makes a 150L.

Brew Brothers has it.

 

[COLObrewer]

Getting a BEER WOODY just thinking about this, what's the specific recipe?

 

[SPLASTiK]

Getting a BEER WOODY just thinking about this, what's the specific recipe?

Borrowed from here.

I listened to that Brewing Network podcast and took these notes for anyone who wants to take a crack at their first attempt at a clone recipe.

Note, the recipe as it is first given gets modified below in their comments. I did NOT revise the recipe to consider their modifications. You can do that if you like.
------------------------------------------------------

They sent some real Arroant Bastard to a lab and got some results.

ibu: 58 from lab. 80 from recipe.

srm: mid to uppper 20's from lab. 27.6 recipe.

alc: 7.7% from recipe. 7.65% from lab.
(Stone says 7.2% on bottle)

SG: 1.071

FG: 1.013 (1.014 from lab)
------

6 GALLONS

90 min boil

70% effic assumed

14 lbs pale malt
1.1 lbs Crystal 150L
.55 lb Crystal 80L
.55 lb Crystal 15L
.55 lb Cyrstal 40L
.33 lb Chocolate malt


.99 oz Chinook 13% AA 85 min
.49 oz Chinook 13% AA 45 min
.49 oz Chinook 13% AA 15 min
.49 oz Chinook 13% AA 2 min

WLP 007 Dry English Ale
or Wyeast 1098

fermented at 67 deg F

mash temp: 149 for 60 min
mash out 168 deg for 10 min
sparge was 170 deg.

--------------------
Homebrew version is too dark. Aroma is about right.
Malt problem - complex and thick grapey malt character (doppelbock) in real AB.

homebrew better with some age? (probably younger than the real AB they're drinking).

Yeast and hops are fairly close.

They don't think that the real AB is actually as dark as 27 SRM, maybe lower 20's (if designing reicpe by software).

Might ferment it a touch warmer to be closer to AB, 69-70.

Might back off on the IBU a few, maybe down to 70 or 75.

Probably double last hop addition, and move first hop addition maybe down to 60 min boil time.

Keep ratios of Crystal malts the same but maybe dial them down by 25 or 33%.

Might cut chocolate malt in half.

mash it at 147-148 deg.

* They said this was their very first try, and they might do subsequent tweaks and attempts to try and get it closer.
-------------
Download episode here.

 

[isleofman]

i find it a little disappointing that they do a "clone" show and only do one brewing attempt at such a sought after clone recipe and then leave it up to the listener to try the next iteration. as much as these guys talk about how much they brew, it just seems odd.

 

[COLObrewer]

Holy crystal malts wortman!!! Thanx! I'll have to try something similar.

 

[SPLASTiK]

i find it a little disappointing that they do a "clone" show and only do one brewing attempt at such a sought after clone recipe and then leave it up to the listener to try the next iteration. as much as these guys talk about how much they brew, it just seems odd.

I don't know, man. It takes a while to brew a beer and they do an new episode/different beer every other week on top of being busy brewing for other competitions, for themselves and working on other shows. Only so much fermenter space and audio you can fit into an hour... It'd also probably get pretty boring listening to a failed show on the same beer for weeks and they'd probably get burned out brewing it week after week.

I actually like the ones they fail as they go through their whole thought process and everything. If they brewed it a few times and came up with a clone before doing a show on it, I don't think the shows would be as good, they'd end up leaving out a lot of info I'd think.

It's not like they're giving up either or just leaving it up to us to figure out.. they're going to be adjusting the recipes and re-brewing these until they get them right for another show with the ones they've failed so far.

 

[Joos]

I just use 120l in mine and it's great.That and I use a whole Oz. of chinook @30 and @0.I wouldn't worry about the 150l.Just do the math of all that crystal malt to get the roast and the amount.

 

[Brewsmith]

i find it a little disappointing that they do a "clone" show and only do one brewing attempt at such a sought after clone recipe and then leave it up to the listener to try the next iteration. as much as these guys talk about how much they brew, it just seems odd.

They have said in previous shows that they will re-brew any failures. I think they're waiting to get a few and then do an update show covering a few in the same episode. Currently there are three that need to be redone:

Firestone Walker Double Barrel Ale
Oskar Blues Gordon
Stone Arrogant Bastard

I'm sure they will announce something regarding the rebrews in the future.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Three words:

Oak that bastard!

 

[COLObrewer]

Three words:

Oak that bastard!

Yes, Yes, I think I seen on one of these links that they use an oak tea, any idea the specifics on procedures for that? Amount, How long, Boil? Etc, etc.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Having tasted our clone and how close it is, I think you will not be happy with the recipe in this thread.

Ixnay on the chocolate and not even close to enough Chinook.

I can't say that our clone is the exact ingredients as the original, I am sure it is not. I think that taste is what matters.

$10 off our Arrogant Bastard kit today only (September 2nd) if you mention this thread.

Just sayin'
Forrest

 

[brewt00l]

They have said in previous shows that they will re-brew any failures. I think they're waiting to get a few and then do an update show covering a few in the same episode. Currently there are three that need to be redone:

Firestone Walker Double Barrel Ale
Oskar Blues Gordon
Stone Arrogant Bastard

I'm sure they will announce something regarding the rebrews in the future.

Plus IIRC they discuss where they believe the clone went wrong and what changes they would make for the re-brew.....about the only thing more they could do is come to your house and brew it for you.


And, I second the suggestion to oak that bastard!

 

[cactusgarrett]

Also, for what it's worth, the head brewer from Stone (in the podcast interview) said they ferment at 72F.

 

[Catch-22]

alright Forrest, what is the promo code

 

[JKoravos]

Having tasted our clone and how close it is, I think you will not be happy with the recipe in this thread.

Ixnay on the chocolate and not even close to enough Chinook.

I can't say that our clone is the exact ingredients as the original, I am sure it is not. I think that taste is what matters.

$10 off our Arrogant Bastard kit today only (September 2nd) if you mention this thread.

Just sayin'
Forrest

THAT is what I call advertising. :rockin:

 

[Austin_]

Having tasted our clone and how close it is, I think you will not be happy with the recipe in this thread.

Ixnay on the chocolate and not even close to enough Chinook.

I can't say that our clone is the exact ingredients as the original, I am sure it is not. I think that taste is what matters.

$10 off our Arrogant Bastard kit today only (September 2nd) if you mention this thread.

Just sayin'
Forrest

Damnit, Forrest. Don't tempt me when I'm already broke enough.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Just keepin' it real.

Just mention it in the comments section.

Forrest

 

[Catch-22]

Ordering now. Forrest, never ordered from you and was wondering if you give a recipe list with purchase or are they just grains in a bag.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Also, for what it's worth, the head brewer from Stone (in the podcast interview) said they ferment at 72F.

Just thought i'd throw that in there, eventhough it is relative - Stone uses a proprietary yeast strain, so what works for them at 72F might not work for WLP-002 at 72F.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Ordering now. Forrest, never ordered from you and was wondering if you give a recipe list with purchase or are they just grains in a bag.

You will get the full recipe. No real homebrew store would do that to you.

We just like you to buy it from us at least once. Not too much to ask.

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Just thought i'd throw that in there, eventhough it is relative - Stone uses a proprietary yeast strain, so what works for them at 72F might not work for WLP-002 at 72F.

Our kit actually uses WLP051 California V. Arrogant bastard 's flavor is based on the hops and the grain. A neutral yet malty yeast is preferred.

Forrest

 

[bdnoona]

Stone Arrogant Bastard Recipe ::: Brew365

This was the recipe I used. It was pretty close IMO.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Most kits do not have enough hops. It will taste right as far as hops go right after you bottle or keg it but it will be harsh. Once you age it so it tastes like it should then you realize you didn't add enough hops.

Forrest

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

Well, let me pour out a pint of my clone on tap, here is the recipe I used gotten from here and scrounged from other places. I had to compromise on the bittering hops as I could not lay my hands on enough chinook.
Some of the formatting may look weird, but I hope this inspires more experimentation to nail this puppy down.

OG 1.075 FG 1.019
IBU 94 ABV 7.2 % SRM 18
Boil Volume 7 gallons
Batch Size 5.5 gallons
Yeast 75% AA
Low TARGET High
OG 1.050 1.075 1.075
FG 1.012 1.019 1.016
IBU 40 94 60+
SRM 8 18 14
ABV 5 7.2 7.8
% (lbs) Grain Points Color
82.0 % 12.50 American Two-row Pale 63.1 4.1
3.3 % 0.50 Belgian Biscuit 2.0 2.1
4.9 % 0.75 Belgian Aromatic 3.1 3.4
3.3 % 0.50 Belgian CaraMunich 2.3 6.8
3.3 % 0.50 Belgian Special B 2.0 20.1
3.3 % 0.50 Marris Ottor 2.4 0.2
15.25 74.8
% (oz) Hop Form AA% AAU Boil Util IBU
50.0 % 2.00 Centennial Pellet 8.0 16.0 90 0.250 54.6
25.0 % 1.00 Chinook Pellet 11.0 11.0 45 0.215 32.2
25.0 % 1.00 Chinook Pellet 11.0 11.0 5 0.047 7.0
4.00 93.8

 

[EvilTOJ]

That looks a lot like my recipe, Kauai_Kahuna. It's in my recipe dropdown if anyone wants to try it.