Arrogant Bastard Clone

[Yooper]

Well, I love the Bastard. I found this online:

Ingredients

11.5 pounds pale two-row malt
1.5 pounds crystal 120
1.25 oz chinook pellets (12.5 aa%) (15.6 AAUs) @ 90 min
1.0 oz chinook pellets (12.5 AAUs) @ 30 min
0.5 oz chinook pellets (6.25 AAUs) @ flame out
1 tsp Irish moss
White Labs WLP007 or WLP001 (English Ale Yeast)

Preparation
Mash at 155 degrees for 60 minutes. Boil for 90 minutes, adding the hops according to schedule. Add Irish Moss last 5 minutes of the boil. Cool wort and pitch yeast. Primary ferment at about 68 F for 7 to 10 days. Secondary fermentation optional.

Specifics
Style Strong Ale
Recipe Type All Grain
Batch Size 5 gallons
Original Gravity 1.074
Final Gravity 1.018
Boiling Time 90 minutes
Primary Fermentation Glass, ~ 68 F, 7-10 days
Secondary Fermentation optional
Other Specifics 75 IBUs, about 7% abv.

Comments
Aging will mellow the Bastard so drink it young if you want to prove your worth.
Extract Brewers can substitute Light Malt Extract for the 11.5 pounds of pale malt. Should take about 2 three pound cans.


Ok, now for the questions! I've found chinook to be harsh in the past. Would doing a FWH help mellow it a bit, especially since the recipe calls for a 90 minute boil? Or maybe cut the boil to 60 minutes? How does it look to you AB drinkers?

Thanks!!!!!!

 

[BrewBrain]

Well, I love the Bastard.

Sounds like you're trying to explain yourself to your parents

My guess is the hops would probably be about right with the malt profile the Bastard has. It'll take a lot of hops to be "too much", so long as you let it age. If you plan to drink it on the young side, yeah, I'd probably back off on the chinook a bit.

Personally, I'm surprised that's it for grains. I would have thought Bastard had more going on than 2-row and 120 Crystal. I really need to stop throwing so much different stuff into my beers!

 

[Dude]

Is AB really 100% chinook?

 

[Yooper]

I don't know. I doubt it, but only because I think of AB as pretty smooth. I can't find any information on the hops, though, so I'm going by what other brewers have to say.

 

[Ryanh1801]

I don't know. I doubt it, but only because I think of AB as pretty smooth. I can't find any information on the hops, though, so I'm going by what other brewers have to say.

you must have had a different version than I had. The one time I had AB on tap it was very very harsh IMO.

 

[jezter6]

AB seems to be different each time I drink it.

Chinook seems to be the standard hop I see in bastard recipes, but I personally am not a fan of those hops. I think if you get something similar but without the overly harsh afterbite of Chinook you'd be ok.

the bastard is hoppy up front, but nice and even in the back. chinooks are bitter all the way until 30 seconds after it's already gone from your mouth.

 

[Iordz]

Personally, I love Chinook!

 

[EvilTOJ]

the 1.5 lbs of Crystal 120 will get the color of Arrogant Bastard, but it won't quite have the same taste. I don't have my recipes with me, but the version I used had (I'm not 100% sure so don't sue me if it's not right) the same amount of two row, then these extra grains.

0.5 lb Special-B

0.75 lb Biscuit

0.5 lb Aromatic

0.5 lb CaraMunich

then the same amount of hop additions as your recipe. Chinook can be very harsh and it reminds me of extra sharp cheddar cheese. Luckily I love extra sharp cheddar cheese even though it binds me up somethin fierce.

 

[BrewBrain]

the 1.5 lbs of Crystal 120 will get the color of Arrogant Bastard, but it won't quite have the same taste. I don't have my recipes with me, but the version I used had (I'm not 100% sure so don't sue me if it's not right) the same amount of two row, then these extra grains.

0.5 lb Special-B

0.75 lb Biscuit

0.5 lb Aromatic

0.5 lb CaraMunich

then the same amount of hop additions as your recipe. Chinook can be very harsh and it reminds me of extra sharp cheddar cheese. Luckily I love extra sharp cheddar cheese even though it binds me up somethin fierce.

This grain bill I believe. I just don't think the Crystal 120 could pack all the Bastard flavors in. I may be wrong, but I'd bet a bottle this is closer.

 

[Brewsmith]

When I was at the Stone brewery last summer, I can tell you that they do use chinook as at least one type of addition. They were brewing and had a bucket of pellets that they later said were chinook.

Now for grain, I saw sacks of crystal 60, crystal 150, victory and a few other things laying around. I posted what they were at the time. I'll see if I can find that post...

Edit... found it

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=11222

Some Stone facts about their brews, and/or ingredients.
They use Centennial pellets as the finishing hop in their pale ale
They use whole chinook hops for some part of tthe process (my guess is the pale ale as well, as that is what they brewed yesterday).
Their base malt comes from Vancouver, WA (which would be Great Western Malting)
Specialty malts spotted on the floor: Crystal 15, 60, 75 & 150 (Great Western Malting), Chocolate (from Scotland) and Victory malt.

 

[Yooper]

Hmmmm. Thanks. I know my clone won't really be a clone- I'll have to call it something like, "In the spirit of AB".

So, no one answered the question about MH or FWH. Would that smooth out some of the harshness of the chinook? What about centennial for the flavor hops? Maybe same type of flavor with less harshness?

I think I'm going to have to give this clone a try.

 

[david_42]

One of the guys in the Oregon Brew Crew did extensive research on FWH and decided it made no difference at all. However, he did not submit the variations to a certified tasting panel.

 

[Glibbidy]

I had some beers last week with a friend of mine that works for Stone. Here is what I can share.
Stone only uses pellet hops.
They do not use any cascade hops in any of their beer.
It is highly unlikely that they do any form of MH, or FWH.
Chinook and Centennial are key elements most of their core products.

The key to here is a good balance of Chinook/Centennial in the kettle in order to avoid the high alpha harshness that it may exude.

EDIT: I think a 90 minute boil is appropriate here.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

I have made this recipe and the 120L Chinook combination is the bomb. The recipe is really close. Although, I add more chinook because after a month in the bottles it doesn't have the punch it needs anymore.

Forrest

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for all the input! I'll have to add chinook to my shopping list. I don't think I have any right now.

Again, thanks!

 

[humann_brewing]

Brewpastor thought AB was brewed with a completely different grain bill that I have seen in any other post (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f5/oaked-arrogant-bastard-17428/#post165294)

Also using cenntenial hops, not chinook.

Do you think this may be a closer clone to AB?

 

[iXanadu]

Chinook and Centennial are key elements most of their core products.

The key to here is a good balance of Chinook/Centennial in the kettle in order to avoid the high alpha harshness that it may exude.

EDIT: I think a 90 minute boil is appropriate here.

My son loves the whole lot of Bastards. I heard the same thing about mixing Chinook and centennial. I'm working on a low grav version here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/please-comment-low-grav-american-ipa-recipe-91499/. Judging by this comment, I'm way overboard with the centennial and will probably tweak it back so its 40/60.

Yooper: The 90 min boil is to get fuller bitter-ing utilization right?

 

[SC_Ryan]

OK... So, knowing it's better to age most bigger beers a little more... and knowing that bastard clones tend to "mellow" with time... When would you say this beer is optimum. I'm guessing 6 weeks is probably the sweet spot?...

Edit: Another question... Is there any reason not to boil for 60 minutes and just up the hop addition to match the IBU's

 

[Yooper]

I boil for 90 minutes, because it's a bigger beer and I need to get my boil volume down a bit. I've done it with 60 minutes, though, and it was just about the same, as far as the taste.

I like it about 6-8 weeks old. It's still Bastard-y, but mellowed a bit. Chinooks can be harsh, but with just a little age, I love it.

 

[niquejim]

I'm the exception to the rule on this site as I like big hoppy beers young. I've had IPA's at 16-20 days from brewing and to me it's at its best. There is very little bittering difference between 60 and 90 minutes

Chinook are great





As Micheal Jackson said "if you see a beer, drink it as it was not meant to age"

 

[eschatz]

Right now I'm drinking a keg of this from December. The bastard only gets better with age... while still retaining that bastardish quality!

 

[VanHolton]

I'm doing a Double Bastard attempt this evening. I'm thinking about adding a pound of corn sugar. What would that do to the end product?

17lbs Maris Otter
1.5 lbs C120
.5lb melanoidin
1lb corn sugar (boil)

90 min boil
1.5 oz chinook 10.3%aa (FWH)
1.5 oz chinook 10.3%aa (60)
1 oz chinook 10.3%aa (30)
1 oz chinook 10.3%aa (10)
1 oz chinook 10.3% (2)
1 oz chinook 10.3% (dry hop)

US-05

Mash at 154 for 60 minutes


Should I forgo the corn sugar? I wanted to hit right around 1.100 at 70% efficiency, which is why I thought about sugar in the first place. But if it will really dry it out in the end and change the character significantly, I'll pass.

 

[Yooper]

I'm doing a Double Bastard attempt this evening. I'm thinking about adding a pound of corn sugar. What would that do to the end product?

17lbs Maris Otter
1.5 lbs C120
.5lb melanoidin
1lb corn sugar (boil)

90 min boil
1.5 oz chinook 10.3%aa (FWH)
1.5 oz chinook 10.3%aa (60)
1 oz chinook 10.3%aa (30)
1 oz chinook 10.3%aa (10)
1 oz chinook 10.3% (2)
1 oz chinook 10.3% (dry hop)

US-05

Mash at 154 for 60 minutes


Should I forgo the corn sugar? I wanted to hit right around 1.100 at 70% efficiency, which is why I thought about sugar in the first place. But if it will really dry it out in the end and change the character significantly, I'll pass.

Well, the sugar is ok but why the melanoidin malt? That seems weird, like you want to add maltiness with the melanoidin malt, and then negate that with the sugar. I'd probably skip the melanoidin (it's a big beer, after all) and use the sugar to boost the ABV a bit.

 

[VanHolton]

Basically, that's just want I was going for. Boost the ABV with sugar, but negate the other effects with a smidge of melanoidin. But thanks for the suggestion, I may just pass on the melanoidin after all.

 

[HItransplant]

yooper,.. or anyone else for that matter.

do you think colombus hops would work in lieu of chinook? or will flavor be off? or, i could do a mix?
suggestions?

 

[VanHolton]

I went with the Melanoidin after all, and man, what a color! The wort pre-boil was an amazing red color, but since I boiled so hard for 90 min it seemed to fade into a rustier shade. I hit my target gravity of 1.100, making this my heaviest beer yet. I pitched two rehydrated sachets of US-05, and had a lag time of about 8 hours. I held steady for the first three days at 64 degrees, and now I'm trying to raise it up to 68 for better attenuation. I'm glad I used the sugar, because I underestimated the temp of my grains and as a result, ended up mashing at about 157. I'll update when I get a final gravity.

 

[Yooper]

yooper,.. or anyone else for that matter.

do you think colombus hops would work in lieu of chinook? or will flavor be off? or, i could do a mix?
suggestions?

Chinook has a different flavor than columbus hops- it would still be a good beer but AB has a definite chinook flavor to it.

 

[HItransplant]

Chinook has a different flavor than columbus hops- it would still be a good beer but AB has a definite chinook flavor to it.

thanks yooper.


oh yeah, have you seen this thread?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/can-you-brew-recipe-stone-arrogant-bastard-176191/

since you love the bastard so much I thought Id make sure you were aware.

cheers.

 

[FishinDave07]

Check this out:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/arrogant-bastard-clone-71867/index14.html#post2727283

 

[Brewenstein]

Brewed this recipe a month ago. Hit all the numbers spot on. Bottled today. WOW! Tasted awesome. I had AB on tap a week ago, and if my memory is correct, this tasted just like it. I bought a bottle of AB today so that I can do a side-by-side in a couple of weeks once mine carbs up. I will try to post a follow up once I do the comparison.