ARGH!!!! Stupid Nottingham

[jwalk4]

I have used it 3 times: twice the yeast failed, once (most recently) it took off like a champ. So I tried it again.

Brewed BierMunchers Centennial Blonde, over shot OG due to a higher boil off (1.057). Ground water here is pretty warm right now so I could only get the beer down to 75 before I pitched. Yes, I Rehydrated. After a few hours I noticed some bubblin' so I turned on my fermentation system and brought the beer down to 65 over a period of 8 hours. Now my air lock has gone cold again with no activity.

I know that a lack of air lock activity is not a sign that the beer isn't fermenting, but I just get more predictable and consistent results with Fermentis and am considering just using that brand from now on.

Any one else have wonky experiences with Nottingham? Because "workhorse" is not the word I would use to describe it at this point.

 

[j1n]

ive used this yeast many many times and i have never had an issue. i ferment with it at 60*

perhaps its something you're doing wrong. i would never pitch it at 75*.

 

[PoppinCaps]

I would warm it back up some and rouse it. Independent of the strain, a 10 degree drop in 8 hours might be enough to drop them down during fermentation if they thought it was going to keep dropping.

But yeah, a workhorse strain should take that hit and keep on kicking, maybe Nott ain't it.

 

[Psylocide]

What do you mean it failed? If you're going by air lock activity, you're doing it wrong.

Was there a krausen on either brew?

Did you take hydrometer readings?

Sorry if I'm asking the obvious, but I've never once had an issue and I use it almost exclusively.

 

[mkyl428]

Nottingham has always performed great for me I have a batch going right now with some Nottingham. Sounds like you pitched a little warm, are you sure it isn't just done? Notty ferments pretty quick, especially at higher temps.

have you considered using a cheap pond pump hooked to your chiller to chill your wort down faster, or chilling it down as much as possible, letting it get down to pitching temps over night in your ferm-chamber & pitching in the morning?

 

[madscientist451]

I've used it several times without any problems. Pitching at 75 and then chilling to 65 isn't the best method. If you have the ability to cool the wort to 65, why not do that before you pitch the yeast?
So I'm trying to think what went wrong, what was the water temp when you re hydrated? You shouldln't need yeast nutrient, but maybe try that? Does the yeast pack have a "use by" date?
If you've gotten good results with a different yeast, I would suspect your method is fine, and the yeast is the problem. But Nottingham has been pretty reliable for me.

 

[Psylocide]

I've used it several times without any problems. Pitching at 75 and then chilling to 65 isn't the best method. If you have the ability to cool the wort to 65, why not do that before you pitch the yeast?
So I'm trying to think what went wrong, what was the water temp when you re hydrated? You shouldln't need yeast nutrient, but maybe try that? Does the yeast pack have a "use by" date?
If you've gotten good results with a different yeast, I would suspect your method is fine, and the yeast is the problem. But Nottingham has been pretty reliable for me.

I don't think I'd ever pitch notty @ 75° and wait until bubbling started to cool it down.

It may well be done and fermented hot.

 

[IslandLizard]

One drop on your refractometer will tell you more than bubble activity in an airlock ever can. Use the conversion formula, since alcohol will be present.

 

[jafo28]

Had an issue with it about five years ago. It basically did nothing. I actually think that's how I found this site. There were several threads at the time about a recall on Notty, and it turned out the lot number matched. That was quite a long time ago though.

 

[jwalk4]

What do you mean it failed?

Was there a krausen on either brew?

Did you take hydrometer readings?

Good to know that people have success with it; its one of the most popular yeasts.

When I say that they failed, I mean that there was no krausen, and only a little trub, and the "beer" tasted sweet and sticky, still like wort. This was in my early days of homebrewing and it was an extract batch so I never bothered with hydrometers.

Now I've upgraded my setup a little bit an do all grain. I ferment with Brew Tech's bucket and FTS But reducing the temperature from 75 takes a while.

So in future should I let the beer cool down to ~65ish even though it'll take an extra hour or two? My sanitation is always on point, but would I have to worry about infection setting in before my yeast does? What about oxygen "escaping" from the wort while the beer chills more?

 

[Psylocide]

I let mine cool in the kettle (no chill), usually takes around 18 - 24 hours.

It's a non-issue if your sanitation is good. I would wait it out.

So... if it were me and I was reallllly curious (as you might be), I'd take a hydro sample and see where you're at. Might be surprised.

 

[jwalk4]

Hmm, maybe. I think I'll wait a few days still before I take a hyrdro reading. I can be patient when I have to be.

So how do you chill in the kettle? Just turn off the burner and let it sit out?

Thanks for the help, btw.

 

[Psylocide]

Hmm, maybe. I think I'll wait a few days still before I take a hyrdro reading. I can be patient when I have to be.

So how do you chill in the kettle? Just turn off the burner and let it sit out?

Thanks for the help, btw.

Well, if you're using a plastic bucket, you can pour it in your bucket pretty quickly (immediately after flameout). Get yourself an "S" type airlock and put in your ferm chamber (or wherever) to cool.

If you're using a glass carboy like myself, I let sit in the kettle for at least 3-4 hours before transferring. Reason being, I don't want to risk a break from thermal shock.

Flame out, kettle lid on, wait 3-4 hours, transfer to carboy, let chill to pitching temp, pitch.

 

[jwalk4]

Interesting.

Ok, next time I'll wait it out.

 

[BreezyBrew]

Let me start by saying, just about all of my beers are on the low side of attenuation. Notty is my go to if I want a clean profile and just get the job done. So much so that I believe it strips out some of the character of the beer. I ferment mine at 62. It is a very active and hard fermentation. Brewed a 10% Black IPA that everyone loved. My experience with English yeasts is that you really need to ferment them on the cool side or it's trouble town. The esters and tartness are just unpleasant.

 

[Psylocide]

Let me start by saying, just about all of my beers are on the low side of attenuation. Notty is my go to if I want a clean profile and just get the job done. So much so that I believe it strips out some of the character of the beer. I ferment mine at 62. It is a very active and hard fermentation. Brewed a 10% Black IPA that everyone loved. My experience with English yeasts is that you really need to ferment them on the cool side or it's trouble town. The esters and tartness are just unpleasant.

I'm ok up to ~67° with Notty in beers that are decently hopped.

 

[BreezyBrew]

I'm ok up to ~67° with Notty in beers that are decently hopped.

That's good to know. The more I brew, the more it seems like correct pitch temp and the temp the first 48 hours matter the most. You don't want to pitch to cold, the yeast say/go dormant, too high, and they get all excited, and don't know what to do with themselves, so they start having an orgy which leads to off flavors.

 

[jwalk4]

I imagine that an orgy would taste disgusting. Off flavors indeed.

 

[Hoppity]

It's always better to wait for your target pitch temp. Pitching high, then dropping low is the opposite of what you want to do. Beware of thermal shock to the yeast too: if you make a slurry out of dry yeast at 80, cool it within 10 degrees of wort.

 

[Psylocide]

It's always better to wait for your target pitch temp. Pitching high, then dropping low is the opposite of what you want to do. Beware of thermal shock to the yeast too: if you make a slurry out of dry yeast at 80, cool it within 10 degrees of wort.

Hmm... maybe I should start paying attention there.

Haven't had any issues. Always just thrown it in after the 15 mins or whatever to bloom.

Maybe the 4 oz is cooled to that point by then.

 

[Helloworld]

Hm. I am no expert but I think going hot to cold might be your problem. My groundwater is pretty hot right now too. I chill as much as I can, then put it in the fridge and let my temp controller probe hang in the ambient air and set it to 65F. Once it has reached that I pitch the yeast.

 

[jwalk4]

Yeah, that's what I'll be doing from now on.

I didn't know so many people let their beer sit and chill for a few hours to get those last few degrees before pitching.

I always thought it was preferred to pitch on the side of hot, rather than letting the wort sit with no yeast at all (infection risk).

 

[NatureOfTheYeast]

75 to 65 is a fairly big drop for fermenting yeast. In my experience, it's enough to put the yeast into a dormant state. Since you said the beer is still quite sweet and wort-like, you could probably get away with pitching another sachet of rehydrated Notty. An alternative would be to get the rehydrated yeast going in a small starter, then pitch it when it reaches high krausen. I'm not sure if this is ideal, though, since dry yeast isn't usually "started" with good results.

So in future should I let the beer cool down to ~65ish even though it'll take an extra hour or two?

Yes. There are some people who will wait overnight to pitch with no problems. In a pinch, this is alright, but it would probably be better to get a cheap submersible fountain pump from a hardware store to circulate ice water through your immersion chiller after you reach around 90 degrees on groundwater.

In practice, it is always better to start your yeast cold and let it warm, than to start it warm and cool it down, especially with highly flocculant strains. On English strains, I'll pitch in the low 60's, ferment at around 64 for clean, or 67 for estery, then once airlock activity start to slow, bump the temperature up a few degrees for final attenuation and byproduct cleanup.

My sanitation is always on point, but would I have to worry about infection setting in before my yeast does?

There is always the possibility, but it's a decision between proper yeast health, or the low chance of contamination. If your sanitation is good, and you're extra careful, then your chances of infection are quite low.

 

[jwalk4]

Good advise. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.

 

[jwalk4]

Just an update: air lock activity picked up quite a bit from where it was. Still not the most vigorous bubbling I've had, but still pretty active (about 1 little blub blub every 1-2 seconds).

So who knows, maybe the temp changes just made the lag phase super long?