Are You Your Own Favorite Brewer?

[JAReeves]

I am not my favorite brewer, I leave that to Russian River; I am forever chasing Pliny the Elder as the gold standard for a hoppy beer. But as for most of my beer, I find it to be superior to most of the beers out there, if only because I now can taste the flaws in beers, my own and others. If I get an off-flavor from a home-brewed 25c pint, I am learning from my mistakes; if I get the same flavor from a $7 pint, then I'm pissed off. I still buy beer to taste styles and if the pipeline is dry, but usually I'll take my homebrew over commercial stuff.

 

[T Murph]

I have tried and tried to get my hands on a Pliny the Elder to no avail. That beer is at the top of my list of brews to enjoy before I die. Apparently they don't get shipped to the southeast coast. Some day I'll get my hands on one.

 

[AlexKay]

I like my own beer pretty well. Then I send beers to competitions to get the opinion of people with more discerning palates. Sometimes they like it pretty well too, and sometimes a beer that I think is super bombs out with the judges.

I know this page of Gordon Strong's, where he fills out score sheets (blind?) for best-of-the-best beers, and they pretty much all score between 40 and 50. (Some of these I don't really get; e.g., Goose Island has never impressed me much.) So, when I enter a competition and score in the 40s, I know I've made a beer anyone would have been proud to brew. (It happens, though not especially often...)

What sort of scores would you expect to see for more typical commercial offerings? What is "pro" level, really? If you walked into a local taproom and filled out a score sheet for every beer there, what would you expect the range of scores to look like?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

What sort of scores would you expect to see for more typical commercial offerings? What is "pro" level, really?

Zymurgy Magazine had (past tense) a "Commercial Calibration" column. Here's the overview from the July 2012 column:

One way beer judges check their palates is by using commercial "calibration beers"-classic versions of the style they represent. Zymurgy has assembled a panel of four judges who ​

have attained the rank of Grand Master in the Beer Judge Certification Program. Each issue, they score two commercial beers (or meads or ciders) using the BJCP scoresheet. We invite you to download your own scoresheets at www.bjcp.org, pick up a bottle (or can) of each of the beverages and judge along with them in our Commercial Calibration.​

Assuming proper shipping and handling, I would anticipate most scores for popular regional commercial beers to be in the 35 - 45 range.

If you walked into a local taproom and filled out a score sheet for every beer there, what would you expect the range of scores to look like?

I saw someone do this once at a regional tap room. Don't be that guy.

At a local tap room that's been around for a while: a 19, a couple of 29s "(yummy but not to style)", and the rest go to mini-BOS.

 

[T Murph]

@AlexKay as a beer judge I'll tell you some of the best beers I have had the pleasure of tasting were homebrews. Sometimes a well rounded homebrewer hits a home run that beats the pros hands down. And of course there are plenty of professional craft brewed beers that are standards we homebrewers strive to duplicate. Judges don't always agree with each other and have to deliberate to come up with a collective opinion of a brew. With that said, I find myself judging every offering I sample be it pro or beginner. I have purchased my share swill at craft breweries but that is not the norm. I find most brew pubs have decent beers while once in a while I find excellent beers and unfortunately occasionally I find the opposite. My wife cringes whenever a brewmaster approaches me and ask what I think about a beer. I am not the type to sugar coat my opinion. If you ask I feel it is my responsibility to give you an honest answer. The one issue that I have to speak up about is an infection. You have to let them know and it happens to some of the good ones. As to Gordon's data sheet that too is subjective. No mention of Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale in the Xmas/specialty beer. It should be at the top of the list IMO.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I agree totally with your statement. It's sad that some of the craft brewers have gotten into the business just to sell mediocre beer. I'm amazed when I go to some of these places to try their beer myself and talk to people that rave about the beer that I wouldn't even admit I brewed. But the stellar ones out there make up for them, and there's plenty out there.

I'm just glad I brew my own too, so I don't need to be disappointed with the entire craft industry because of a few bad ones.

I agree, too. Budweiser is popular for a reason. Marketing works. If it works for disgusting mainstream quasi-beers, it also works for craft beers that are just as bad. I believe there are tons of people out there who have a bizarre desire to be seen drinking craft beer, even though they can't tell PBR from peach Nehi. Give your brewery a clever name, pay for eye-catching labels, hype your bad beer as though there were something special about it, and hipsters will buy it. Craft beer entrepreneurs know these things, and some are putting time-tested marketing methods to work.

Most people can't tell good beer from bad. This will always be true. Most people will buy anything the masses or a person they admire tells them is good. A lot of people can't be taught to recognize and like good beer, but anyone can follow a herd.

If people will drink a fake craft beer made cheaply, why bother improving it? It's already doing what it's supposed to do: earning money. People bought Killian's Red, which was like Coors with dye in it. It gets good reviews on Beer Advocate, which tells you something about Beer Advocate.

The principle applies to everything. I saw a bunch of videos about pizzerias in New Haven, Connecticut. Youtubers who claimed to be pizza experts raved and said it was unbelievably good. People, including at least one celebrity, brag about being given a special phone number for placing orders quickly, like it's an honor to be allowed to give someone money. As a person who makes pizza frequently, I was curious because I thought the pizza had to be really great in order to impress so many people.

I told my best friend about it, and he said he had eaten at these hyped pizzerias more than once when passing through for business. He knows pizza. He taught me how to make pizza. He said they were was "okay." Not especially good. If they had been anything special, he would have been able to tell. He says my pizza is better.

Then there's the Peter Luger steakhouse in Brooklyn. An unbelievable dump with terrible service and steaks just like the ones every other steakhouse serves, except Peter Luger serves them on worn-out tables you literally couldn't give to Goodwill and surrounds them with other food that is of institutional quality. People get furious when you criticize this place, because the herd instinct dominates their brains. It got some inexplicable stellar reviews decades ago, and the reputation has carried it since. It's hard to imagine anything more they could do to drive people away, but they flock to it.

Someone here will probably get mad at me for criticizing it, but I know what I experienced. When I was there, it was freezing outside, and every time someone came in, a blast of cold air went through the place. Customers were wearing overcoats. Not only were there no tablecloths; there was no finish on the tables or the floor. The bread came from a bag. I ordered a Coke, and they brought me a hot 6-1/2 ounce bottle and a small glass with a few cubes of ice that were melting fast. The steak was great, except that they cut it up for me without being asked, like I was a six-year-old.

A steak alone can't justify a restaurant's existence. Anyone who can't make a great steak has no business owning a stove. It's as hard as making toast. People still insist there is something magical about Peter Luger's anointed steers.

Lawry's is also pretty bad, but it has mythical status anyway. My wife and I went to Lawry's and Ruth's in Singapore. Lawry's gave us thin, cool slices of tough, underseasoned prime rib, which is amazing, given the name of the restaurant and the fact that Lawry's sells seasoning. They served it with canned peas and mashed potatoes that tasted like they came from a box. The creme brulee was a combination of lumps and egg soup. Ruth's, on the other hand, was great. Not as good as food cooked at home, but very nice.

It's not the steak that makes you rich. It's the sizzle.

 

[AlexKay]

Sally’s or Pepe’s?

Sally’s, in particular, is a hole-in-the-wall place that doesn’t advertise.

And Budweiser is good if you catch it young.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Sally's is all over Youtube. It's famous.

I believe he went to all three of the big names on his trips.

 

[MrClint]

I have to ask: am I the only one who prefers his own beer to nearly everything else?

It's starting to trend in that direction. I'm brewing some fairly simple APA and ABA beers that are dialed in to my own taste preferences.

 

[mac_1103]

The steak was great

This, IMHO, is much more important than you give it credit for. You have apparently lived a charmed life, having never met (much less been related to) one of the millions of absolutely terrible cooks who populate the planet.

 

[aceluby]

I will amend my answer. I think I’m my favorite brewer to make $.25 beer.

 

[bracconiere]

I will amend my answer. I think I’m my favorite brewer to make $.25 beer.

 

[jerrylotto]

I think that the goal of every style I brew is to produce something that I like better than anything I can buy. I've even accomplished that lofty goal for a few styles in my opinion. But there's a lifetime of experimentation left to go.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I encountered Celis White in about 1994. Then the brewery shut down. Then Hoegaarden came along, supposedly the same thing, since Pierre Celis was involved. It was nice, but today I drank a wheat beer I made myself, and it has crystal malt in it to take the edge off the dryness, and I used Amarillo to kill the blandness. I love it. I can't get anything like that at the store.

This is the great thing about homebrewing. Something you don't like about a factory beer? Fix it. Factory go out of business? Make their beer at home.

 

[VikeMan]

I encountered Celis White in about 1994. Then the brewery shut down. Then Hoegaarden came along, supposedly the same thing, since Pierre Celis was involved. It was nice, but today I drank a wheat beer I made myself, and it has crystal malt in it to take the edge off the dryness, and I used Amarillo to kill the blandness. I love it. I can't get anything like that at the store.

Sounds like an American Wheat Beer, unless you used a Belgian Wit strain. Even then, it sounds kind of like an American Wheat Beer. And if you happened to use an English strain, it sounds like a Gumballhead clone.

 

[sibelman]

For me, it's enough (when inspired by a commercial brew) to make a good beer that strongly reminds me of the original. I'm not gonna claim my Chimay Red clone effort exceeded the original, but I was pleased as punch to make something similar and very enjoyable.

Though I'm often disappointed in beers I buy at the store or at a taproom, some also exceed my abilities, offering further inspiration.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Sounds like an American Wheat Beer, unless you used a Belgian Wit strain. Even then, it sounds kind of like an American Wheat Beer. And if you happened to use an English strain, it sounds like a Gumballhead clone.

I used about 75% wheat and WLP300. I don't think about styles. I just write a recipe, and if it fits a style, it's a coincidence.

 

[VikeMan]

I used about 75% wheat and WLP300. I don't think about styles. I just write a recipe, and if it fits a style, it's a coincidence.

I see. From your first post, I assumed you were trying to make something at least similar to Celis White and/or Hoegaarden. And just in case you were trying to do that, and at the risk of telling you something you already know, WLP300 is german hefeweizen yeast. It's really not very similar to the Wit strains.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I would say it's what I wish Hoegaarden was. If I were to drink a Hoegaarden right now, I'd think, "Man I wish there was more of this and less of that." Then if I followed up with my own beer, I'd think, "That's more like it."

It has been too long ago to remember, but I think I chose WLP300 for the side flavors.

 

[mac_1103]

I would say it's what I wish Hoegaarden was.

Sort of like Mozart rewriting Salieri on the fly in Amadeus. Except without the whole "greatest musical genius of all time" part.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

It's like the time I took my 1935 Duesenberg and spray-painted flames on it.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I just write a recipe, and if it fits a style, it's a coincidence.

Yup, that's how I feel too. I use the BJCP Style Guidelines as just that, a guide. I know a lot of the beer judges out there will disagree, but I brew my way to brew what I like. Now if I was brewing a beer so I could maybe win a nice blue ribbon or something else to hang on the wall then I'd follow the style path more precisely.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Yeah, I think it's ridiculous to try to tell other people how to brew. There has been so much innovation over the last two decades. How much would there have been if everyone was trying to copy someone else?

 

[beersk]

Yeah, I think it's ridiculous to try to tell other people how to brew. There has been so much innovation over the last two decades. How much would there have been if everyone was trying to copy someone else?

Case in point - Low O2 brewing came from trying to copy the Germans... I think we've learned a lot about brewing science in just the last 6-7 years because of that.

 

[Callacave]

I'm not too far from Hill Farmstead, so that's my ultimate gauge. And although I've enjoyed a ton of my beer, and have made a handful of amazing ones it's a dragon that I'm afraid I'll never quite catch, but it's been fun to chase for sure!

 

[Alan Reginato]

I have to ask: am I the only one who prefers his own beer to nearly everything else?

I finished making my first post-comeback beer a few days ago, and I overcarbonated it. It took several days for it to recover so I could get a beer that wasn't all head at first and then low on bubbles. Today it's perfect. I can open the faucet all the way, and it gives me about 2.5 inches of foam and still has the carbonation zing it needs.

I had some Old Rasputin the other day, and it amazed me. It changed the way I think about beer. But other than that, I like my own brews best. And I'm not going to sit around every day drinking imperial stout. Most of the time, I'm going to want to be down around 6%.

I love a beer that's exactly what I imagined when I first tried to write the recipe. No matter how good factory beer is, it's not tailor-made.

Oh no, you aren't. I just don't drink commercial beer anymore. I prefer drink water. Craft beer here, they just copy APA style. All citrus, fruit combined with high bitterness, that to me taste like spoiled fruit (sorry, didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings) or with too much additives. Lactose, coffee, spices, far from something you can call balanced. I can't even buy a normal, regular saison here. Neither a stout. And Imported beers are just too expensive...

So, I just drink what I brew.

 

[kingmatt]

I'd venture to say that I am my favorite home brewer but I can't compete with some of the better breweries out there when it comes to the styles I prefer most (hoppy beers). They have the ability to hand select hops, centrifuge their beers, propogate specific yeast strains etc. Hard to compete with that on a homebrew level. All this to say, I still purchase a good amount of commerical beer.

 

[11thStBrewing]

I’m not, but I’m working on it. Very picky.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Brewing today while overcoming a virus. Last night, beer, including Old Rasputin, tasted gross. This morning, I could not smell anything. Nothing. Not even Vaporub smeared on my nostrils. Suddenly this afternoon, I started smelling things again.

I was going to brew without a beer in front of me, which is unnatural and sick, but since my nose was starting to work again, I thought I should take a chance. But what if it still tasted bad?

I opened a Dogfish Head 60 Minute because I was afraid to risk wasting my own beer. I guess that shows how Dogfish Head and my own beer relate in my brew hierarchy. And I really like Dogfish Head.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Oh no, you aren't. I just don't drink commercial beer anymore. I prefer drink water. Craft beer here, they just copy APA style. All citrus, fruit combined with high bitterness, that to me taste like spoiled fruit (sorry, didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings) or with too much additives. Lactose, coffee, spices, far from something you can call balanced. I can't even buy a normal, regular saison here. Neither a stout. And Imported beers are just too expensive...

So, I just drink what I brew.

I completely understand this. Even before I brewed, I preferred water or nothing to things like Budweiser and Miller.

I am not a big fan of additives, although I won't close any doors. There is so much you can do with grain, yeast, and temperature. I think a lot of breweries never figured this out, so they just ran to things like orange peel and lactose and coffee.

I don't understand putting orange peel in wheat beer when you can get great citrus flavor from hops. Why not try hops first?

Back when I smoked cigars, I never understood people who smoked flavored stogies. Gross. A Trinidad is sweet and tastes like vanilla all by itself. A Cohiba tastes like cloves. A Brazilia Gol tastes like dark chocolate. An aged Bauza pyramid with a little white mold tastes like cashews. Dumping additives in tobacco seemed like a way of admitting there was nothing going on without them. I think some brewers have the same problem.

That being said, I do want to come up with fruity stuff to put in finished wheat beers after pouring them.