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Man you guys are making me feel real lucky to live in PNW. A really good sixer like ranger or pitch black can run 7 or 8 bucks max I have 5 or 6 micros within 10 miles that will fill a growler for about 8 bucks. That being said I started HB for the fun and the love of beer. I attend probably 4 or 5 beer fests here in town a year and belong to the WABL. It's a passion not a cost savings. Though buying new bombers of special releases like the double Jack IPA from firestone walker I picked up today helps justify by re using the bottles HaHaHa. At least that's what I tell the wife
 
I don't think it's fair to add in the cost to equipment into your brew cost that is basically "start up" / "maintenance" cost.

when starting a business if one were to start one lets say using CNC machines that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars they don't factor that into the cost of making small parts. you wouldn't pay $1500 for a small machines piece of work that was $10 in material would you?

but since this is a hobby not a business we don't count our blood sweat and tears into the mix.


so apple to apples home brew on average is cheaper per bottle than BMC swill. because it runs me $24 for a 30 pack of bud light, $20.99 for keystone light chit.

where as i can brew hefe for $20 at 5 gallons. my time is not a factor because its not work and it's some thing I enjoy doing.

-=jason=-
 
I am by no means an expert on the whole hb thing yet (give me time), and the "cheaper in the long run" argument did cross my mind, but I started doing this because I love beer. For Beer's sake. Days spent brewing or the miriad of other things that go into brewing are days that I'm not out blowing 60 to 100 bucks on some other amusement that does not result in beer.

Also, we have not discussed the incorporial aspects. Exactly how much is that amazed look in your friend or family member's eye after they take a good long pull on a beer your particularly proud of.

I bet when the guy brings the trailer back he goes home with a few more bombers. And the giver will be just a pleased as the receiver. Dare I say... "Priceless."
 
Home brewing has made me step outside my box of BMC and discover there are beers far better than BMC swill to which I had previously thought of as the "cream of the crop" when you only buy and drink swill you know not of the nectar of the gods that can be had on the other side of the fence.

I shall now try my damnedest not to buy BMC if I can help it. I have eaten the forbidden fruit and I enjoyed it.

-= Jason =-
 
After my dad bought his speed boat he spent around 15K getting it ready to go salmon fishing. The first day out he caught an average size salmon, held it up and said "this is what a fifteen thousand dollar salmon looks like, the next one is free to me." It will always be cheaper to go to the store and get a nice filet of salmon, but where is the fun in that. Plus you can't beat fresh.

I took this approach to brewing. When I first got all of my equipment and finally had that first bottle cooled after bottle conditioning for three weeks it was a $200 dollar bottle. the rest of the batch were free.

I know that this is silly logic but if you try and constantly compare cost per beer you'll get upset. I am willing to spend the money because it is fun, and tastes damn good.
 
I have roughly $1200 total spent in 1 year of brewing along with some winemaking going back a bit further.

Of that $1200...
-$100 on equipment and ingredients mostly used with the wine.
-$100 on hops rhizomes and trellis costs.
-$350-450 on corker/capper, keggle build, IC, fermenter and bottling buckets, mill, and other misc. equipment.
-$50 on books.
-The rest is basically ingredients, chemicals, and other stuff that doesnt last long.

I figure I recoup $50 dollars per batch, at about $1 per bottle. So 13 brews x $50 = $650 saved so far. Still in the hole, but I've got 94lb of base grain on hand, a full propane tank, enough hops for a few SMaSH brews, and a ton more on the way if all 8 of my rhizomes survive and produce this year.
 
kansasbrew said:
OK, as a resident cheapskate, I have tried to go bulk. I've picked up the fifty lb bag of malt and such. No kits, etc. A twelve pack of bottles around these parts puts each bottle at a bit over a buck. My ingredient costs are probably less than a third of that. But equipment has to be factored in too. Not sure, how much I'm saving, but I'm having a good time.
Click to expand...

Yes, on ingredients I do very well for material cost by brewing 15 gallon batches, buying in bulk, crushing my own grain, freezing yeast stocks, etc etc etc... My costs are $30-50 per batch depending on grail and hop bill and any potential specialty ingredients, so at 15 gallons a pop, that's a pretty sweet cost of $7-9 per 24 beers or about 14-18 bucks per 5 gal keg.


On equipment? Let's just pretend that doesn't count.
 
I'm imagining some corporate accountants are reading this thread for ideas on how to cook their books.
 
Last year (and from now on) I made a spread sheet for all the brews I did. Cost of ingredients, volume, etc. There is another column for the other stuff: caps, priming sugar, equipment that I boutght, etc.

Total cost/bottle after adding everything up: $1.21 (up from 0.9 if just ingredient cost)

Not bad as that is $7.26/6 pack. Most 6'ers are at least $8 and now that I am buying in bulk I am saving a lot more in ingredients and I have only made $12 worth of equipment buys this year.
 
I too have a spread sheet that tracks more or less every penny I spend on a batch of beer that I brew. I even went as far as to estimate utility usage for the NG that I burn, the water used, the electricity that is used to run my kegerator and the extra freezer where I store my home grown hops. I even added just a little extra to help account for anything that I might be forgetting. Equipment costs aside, I am brewing my beer for about $12.00 a case. That's pretty darn cheap. Of course I buy all my grain for the year in bulk when its on sale and I grow all my own hops. Plus, I'm brewing big batches now, a full BBL. I got tired of wasting time brewing batch after batch of 5 gal runs. I love to brew....but man.....I can't spend my whole life in the basement. The big brews shave off cost as well.......my efficiency is a lot higher now and I save money on sanitizer and crap like that you have to make up every time you brew. Another big cost savings......I farm yeast now and freeze it. I pick a few yeast strains that I want to brew with for the year (buy one smack pack each) and I grow up as much of it as I know I will likely need (plus a little extra for spare) and then split up the yeast into small portions and freeze it. When I want to brew I just pull out what yeast I want....bring it up with a starter and bam. I make one batch with it and I'm done with it. The frozen yeast is so cheap and easy I don't even bother with fermentor harvesting or yeast washing. When I finally run out of freezer yeast (which should coincide with my grain depletion) I make my yearly run to HBS and drop around $500 on everything I need to brew with for the year.

If you buy kits, or small quants of grain/extract, pitch a smack pack every time, brew 5 gal batches and have to rely on store bought hops......I agree that homebrewing is not much of a cost savings. But, if you're a serious homebrewer, you can and will find ways to bring your costs down to a very managable level.
 
Calculating shipping and supplies to make a batch it costs me just less than half of what I spend to buy the commercial equivalent on average.


Rev.
 
My starter brewing kit cost about $120. Depending on the style, it costs $40-$55 for me to produce 2 cases after everything (ingredients, bottle caps, water, gas, cleaner, etc). That's roughly $1 per beer before you factor in the initial cost of equipment.

The full algorithm would be:

costPerBeer = (startupCost + maintenanceCosts + (averageCostPerBatch * numberOfBatches)) / (averageBottlesPerBatch * numberOf Batches)

I can run to any store around here and get a 12-pack of delicious Great Lakes beer for $18, which is $1.50 per beer. If I use that as the basis for comparison, anything more than 5 batches on my current and I'm coming out ahead.
 
I applaud BornFrustrated for recognizing that start up/equipment/fixed costs must count but can be spread across all batches.

But can you buy Great Lakes by the case? That knocks down its per bottle cost a little (although not to $1 a bottle).
 
Even just doing one extract batch order I save. Even more so if I order for two batches. Here's a quick example and this is with pricing from NorthernBrewer (definitely not the lowest priced online vendor so these numbers can be reduced) and factors in their $7.99 shipping. I've also divided up the cost correctly as I get 38 500ml bottles with each of my 5 gallon batches.

I buy cases of Franziskaner in 500ml bottles. They come 20 per case. I have them delivered to my house. The total price comes out to $42 then I tip the guy $3. So total is $45:

Franziskaner = 2.25 per bottle
Ordering for only one batch of my main hefeweizen recipe = $1.17 per bottle
Ordering for two batches of my main hefeweizen recipe = 0.92 cents per bottle

That's a pretty noticeable savings. And there's also the option of course to buy extract in 50-55lb bulk bags which also cuts the price of the extract used in half.

Obviously a lot depends on location. I live in New Jersey and work in Manhattan and prices are high. Even still... I think $2.25 for a Franziskaner is a good price. But with the average 12oz import beer costing no less than $1.50 I do save even if I order only once batch's supplies at a time.


Rev.
 
I'd say I'm saving money versus buying at the store or bar. I've cut waaaaay back on my bar tabs and I only buy a six pack of something if it's something new or if I'm going to someone else's house for dinner or something. Sometimes I'll take a growler of my homebrew but then I let everyone else have it so I fall back on the six pack I brought.

Bottom line: I'm making batches of beer for anywhere from 3-10 bucks per gallon. That's way cheap. Even the expensive extract kits are a good deal. I did an Orval clone and now I'm working on a Rochefort 6. The Orval kit was $53 including bottled water and per 12oz bottle in the store it's about $6. So buying 5 gallons of that in bottles at the store would be $323 roughly. For the Rochefort 6 clone it's going to be about $52 and at $5.29 per 11oz bottle that would be ~$306 in the store.
 
I had about $330 wrapped up in obtaining 4 bottles of Dark Lord. If I make a 5 gallon batch of beer, my savings would be about $2,850.00



My wife didn't buy that logic either.
 
I'm sure not. I just started this year and so far had to buy all the equipment, cleaner, sanitizer, storage box, beer to drink and use bottles, more beer to drink and "research", kits, equipment to build bottle tree, more kits, and more beer. But so far its been a lot of fun and worth every penny. Hopefully I will see a return one day if not its still a fun hobby.
 
I don't think any of the hobbies I've had have ever saved me money. However they've all been fun and interesting and that's the important part.
 
Well, unless you have some careful cost accounting, or had a clearly managed "beer budget" before and after, it's basically impossible to say you're 'saving' money. But I can say I have a lot more beer flowing through my garage now and I don't think I'm spending more money. Plus, I never had anything "on-tap" before Homebrewing.
 
johnnyspade said:
Are you working off a recipe here you wouldn't mind sharing? I love that beer.
Click to expand...

It's an extract kit from the wine and hop shop here in Madison, not specifically a Rochefort clone but I changed up the yeast and I might tweak it a bit between now and when I brew it. If it turns out halfway close to the 6 then I'll post it, right now it's still kind of up in the air.
 
LakewoodBrew said:
Well, unless you have some careful cost accounting, or had a clearly managed "beer budget" before and after, it's basically impossible to say you're 'saving' money. But I can say I have a lot more beer flowing through my garage now and I don't think I'm spending more money. Plus, I never had anything "on-tap" before Homebrewing.
Click to expand...

In my case I know beyond a doubt that I'm saving money. For my very first batch my entire kit plus brewing supplies cost $120.00 and produced 66 beers. 5 cases of equivilant beer in my neck of the woods runs about $125.00plus tax. So even with buying odd bits of hardware, travel costs and such I'm still coming out ahead. Plus I'm having fun so that's gotta be worth something too:)
 
I save a LOT of money by virtue that I usually drink more expensive beers. My beers aren't always very cheap, but I'd say the cheapest 5 gallons I've ever made wound up being just under a dollar a bottle.
 
IanC said:
In my case I know beyond a doubt that I'm saving money. For my very first batch my entire kit plus brewing supplies cost $120.00 and produced 66 beers. 5 cases of equivilant beer in my neck of the woods runs about $125.00plus tax. So even with buying odd bits of hardware, travel costs and such I'm still coming out ahead. Plus I'm having fun so that's gotta be worth something too:)
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but for me I doubt I spend less money on beer today than I did 2 years ago, I just drink a lot more and give a lot more beer to friends.
 
Living in Canada as well it is way cheaper to make your own. I recently bought a 12 pack of ricards dark and it cost me over 24 dollars. (and its not that great) The cheapest beers I can buy are about 19 dollars for a 12 pack of cans. (really low grade) I bought a 4 pack of guinness cans about a month ago (That costs 17 dollars) Also the selection for microbreweries is very small and very expensive.(Sam adams boston lager costs 14.20 for a six pack) The homebrew ale I bottled today cost me about 33 cents a bottle.
 
I'll rephrase my original statement: it's no doubt that home brewed beer is less expensive on a per unit basis - I've done detailed economic analysis on brewing based on batch sizes and production rates.
My proposal was that in agregate the amount of money I spend on beer is not less - I just go through a lot more beer these days. There was a time where 5 gallons of beer in bottled case form could last many, many months. Now 5 gallons can go in a couple weeks (or even a single day sometimes) depending on who happens to be in the neighborhood.
 
LakewoodBrew said:
Now I'm curious - what came in #1?
Click to expand...

Number 1 was:

"My friends are the ones saving money. The other day a buddy came by to borrow my trailer and I gave him four 22oz beers. He borrows my trailer and I give him beer? How screwed up is that?"

But I got a good laugh from yours as well:mug:
 
Yes Im saving money and I dont worry about the time involved its fun and I get to drink beer while making beer its a escape for me and as far as equipment cost you can spend as much or as little as you have/or want its kinda fun to see how much you can either save or repurpose with a little thought and creativity
 
Manoau2002 said:
Living in Canada as well it is way cheaper to make your own. I recently bought a 12 pack of ricards dark and it cost me over 24 dollars. (and its not that great) The cheapest beers I can buy are about 19 dollars for a 12 pack of cans. (really low grade) I bought a 4 pack of guinness cans about a month ago (That costs 17 dollars) Also the selection for microbreweries is very small and very expensive.(Sam adams boston lager costs 14.20 for a six pack) The homebrew ale I bottled today cost me about 33 cents a bottle.
Click to expand...

Yup, being a Canadian is a good arguement for trying your hand at home brewing. I'm wondering what the worst place is to live when it comes to high prices for buying beer offf of the shelf. I get the impression that Australia and New Zealand also have very high prices - I wonder where in the world is most expensive for buying a standard case of your typical beer?
 
LakewoodBrew said:
I'll rephrase my original statement: it's no doubt that home brewed beer is less expensive on a per unit basis - I've done detailed economic analysis on brewing based on batch sizes and production rates.
My proposal was that in agregate the amount of money I spend on beer is not less - I just go through a lot more beer these days. There was a time where 5 gallons of beer in bottled case form could last many, many months. Now 5 gallons can go in a couple weeks (or even a single day sometimes) depending on who happens to be in the neighborhood.
Click to expand...

Very true. More beer somehow has a way of getting consumed at a faster rate. Strange how that seems to happen...
 
IanC said:
Number 1 was:

"My friends are the ones saving money. The other day a buddy came by to borrow my trailer and I gave him four 22oz beers. He borrows my trailer and I give him beer? How screwed up is that?"

But I got a good laugh from yours as well:mug:
Click to expand...

+1 Funny and so true - where else can my friends go to pull draught beer, eat some food and watch a ball game - all without dropping a freakin nickle.

I'm putting a donation box on my kegerator.
 
LakewoodBrew said:
I'm putting a donation box on my kegerator.
Click to expand...



You guys make an excellent point....the more you brew the more gets drank. Especially by friends and family. But, I drink 2-3 a day on average myself....and about 4 years from now my system will pay itself in cost savings vs buying cheap chitty beer for me. And you know, what's the difference between hookin up a brotha with some homebrew vs keepin some cheaper commercial in the fridge? Or pickin up a 12 pack on the way to your buddy's house to watch the game? Granted though, friends seem to overly take advantage when it's on tap. I'll have to side with LakewoodBrew.
 
McGarnigle said:
I applaud BornFrustrated for recognizing that start up/equipment/fixed costs must count but can be spread across all batches.

But can you buy Great Lakes by the case? That knocks down its per bottle cost a little (although not to $1 a bottle).
Click to expand...

I don't know of any places that sell GL by the case, but maybe Costco or Sam's Club. When it's on sale, you can sometimes find a 12 for $15.99 or, rarely, $14.99. But who waits around for a sale to buy beer? :mug:

I just went on a beer vacation, visiting 10 breweries/brewpubs in Ohio and Michigan. Enjoyed a lot of beer and pub food, and grabbed a bunch for home as well. One thing is for sure, craft beer isn't cheap.
 

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