Are there more/less efficient grits/rice?

[balrog]

It's hot.
So I make @Yooper 's Dad's Cream Ale last night
5# Pale
1.5# Instant Grits
1# Minute Rice
5.0gal into fermenter, 24.5qt strike total, full vol mash, BIAB, no losses, simple gravity bag drain no squeeze.

I've been getting 78-80% efficiencies, the setting used in Brewer's Friend, to determine grist amounts to get 1.044 OG.

Well I ended up about 6-8 points low. I used noname brand instant grits and instant rice.

Anybody know if name brand (Quaker & Minute) is "better" than noname brand when putting instant grits/rice in? I'm going back to getting Briess flaked corn and flaked rice from now on.

 

[Yooper]

I used a generic minute rice type of rice in one, and I can't remember what kind of flaked corn, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't grits. Other than that, I have no idea at all if they vary. Sorry!

 

[balrog]

I used a generic minute rice type of rice in one, and I can't remember what kind of flaked corn, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't grits. Other than that, I have no idea at all if they vary. Sorry!

Thanks. I'd always just ordered the flaked from Ritebrew but this was spur of the moment and I thought I'd try it. Now I know how to adj eff or get the flaked stuff.

 

[Vale71]

There aren't more or less "efficient" cereals per se but there are different varieties with different compositions. Cereals meant for animal or human consumption are usually richer in protein a this has a higher nutritional value which means that starch content will have to decrease to leave room for the proteins. Cereals meant for beer production (either malted or unmalted) are selected for their lower protein content and consequently their higher extract yield.

 

[balrog]

There aren't more or less "efficient" cereals per se but there are different varieties with different compositions. Cereals meant for animal or human consumption are usually richer in protein which means that starch content will have to decrease to leave room for the proteins. Cereals meant for beer production (either malted or unmalted) are selected for their lower protein content and consequently their higher extract yield.

a-HA! Okay, thanks, I like thinking I know there's a reason. At least a possible reason, directionally at best, for what I was seeing.

 

[IslandLizard]

Both flaked/grit corn and minute rice need to be fully rehydrated for enzymes to break them down. That takes time, possibly beyond your mash time. You can pre-soak or boil them before adding to the mash.

I use a large amount of Briess flaked corn in some Saisons. It gets pre-boiled in plenty of water for 30' to a thin "polenta." That becomes my strike water for the rest of the mash. The pre-boiling process also ensures it's completely gelatinized.

 

[bleme]

From my rice wine experience, I know there is also a huge difference in rice. Sweet rice varieties yield more than double the wine that long grain varieties do. That said, there should be minimal difference between generic long-grain and branded long-grain.

 

[balrog]

Both flaked/grit corn and minute rice need to be fully rehydrated for enzymes to break them down. That takes time, possibly beyond your mash time. You can pre-soak or boil them before adding to the mash.

I use a large amount of Briess flaked corn in some Saisons. It gets pre-boiled in plenty of water for 30' to a thin "polenta." That becomes my strike water for the rest of the mash. The pre-boiling process also ensures it's completely gelatinized.

I thought:
1) flaked corn/rice was pre-gelatinized, and have only ever used flaked in the mash, std 60m mash;
2) non-instant grits, depending on grit size, needs the "cereal mash" of adding some barley malt, 10m at 150F, boil like mutha for 30m or even 60m before even thinking of adding to rest of the mash

Maybe I try the preboil next time, but I bet I just get flaked from now on cuz I lazy.

 

[IslandLizard]

I thought:
1) flaked corn/rice was pre-gelatinized, and have only ever used flaked in the mash, std 60m mash;
2) non-instant grits, depending on grit size, needs the "cereal mash" of adding some barley malt, 10m at 150F, boil like mutha for 30m or even 60m before even thinking of adding to rest of the mash

Maybe I try the preboil next time, but I bet I just get flaked from now on cuz I lazy.

I think flaked corn (and possibly rice too) are different than flaked wheat, barley, oats, etc. The flaking process pre-gelatinizes them, but maybe there are degrees of pregelatinization... I had trouble converting the (milled) flaked corn when added as is, being 40% of the mash.

 

[balrog]

You might have something there, so I will definitely keep longer mash in mind next time.

 

[IslandLizard]

You might have something there, so I will definitely keep longer mash in mind next time.

As I mentioned before, rehydration is also critical, a long pre-soak may be all that's needed. That flaked corn is hard! When milling it, it sounds similar to milling rice, I've done that a few times too. I now precook rice.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Instant rice and grits are typically added to boiling water prior to consumption as food...my guess is that they are not pregelatinized enough for full utilization during a typical mash.
When prepared by the directions for eating, instant grits and rice still have a little toughness or bite...and don’t taste well gelatinzed to me idk?

I cook the hell out of rice and other adjuncts prior to adding to the mash fwiw

 

[Vale71]

They are gelatinized when they're cooked at the factory but if dried for long-term storage starch will cristallize again and will need to be gelatinized all over again. The good news is that they should gelatinize promptly at mash temps, any residual toughness is mostly due to proteins not having been degraded by enzymatic action which happens during malting, that is why they will generally benefit from a longer boil pre-mash (thermal degradation).

 

[Soulshine2]

It's hot.
So I make @Yooper 's Dad's Cream Ale last night
5# Pale
1.5# Instant Grits
1# Minute Rice
5.0gal into fermenter, 24.5qt strike total, full vol mash, BIAB, no losses, simple gravity bag drain no squeeze.

I've been getting 78-80% efficiencies, the setting used in Brewer's Friend, to determine grist amounts to get 1.044 OG.

Well I ended up about 6-8 points low. I used noname brand instant grits and instant rice.

Anybody know if name brand (Quaker & Minute) is "better" than noname brand when putting instant grits/rice in? I'm going back to getting Briess flaked corn and flaked rice from now on.

Try adding pure corn starch??