Are Taste and Speed Mutually-Exclusive in Regard to Secondary Length?

[ishkabibble]

i primaried a Scottish 80 for 11 days, and i'm currently on my 8th day of secondary.

i know this is treading on a moot point, but i can't seem to grasp the science of fermentation length, and the

there are those who cellar their potions for months, and diehards who swear by the 1.2.3, and those who go from mash to face in 2 weeks. i have several books that contradict themselves, i.e. "primary 1 week, secondary 2 weeks" then later states, "primary 2 weeks, secondary 1-3 months".

#1) if i bottle after 21 days of primary-secondary fermentation, am i truly missing out on mellowing and flavors that only develop after an eon of settling? (i thought excessive stays on secondary yeastcakes was bad for business.)

#2) 40F cold crash secondary vs room-temp secondary: it seems to me that using a secondary truly isn't a second fermentation so much as it is an opportunity to crash out unwanted dreck--isn't my 40F porch better than a 65F room, or is there some yeastly process that requires room temp for mellowing?

#3) if i bottle this weekend, and wait 3 weeks, would i have a discernably different product than if i had waited 3 months?

 

[ArcaneXor]

It depends. Different beers call for different fermentation schedules. 1/2/3 is useless in almost every case.

Some beers are best enjoyed young, such as IPAs and Hefeweizens. Others are best enjoyed with some age on them, like Russian Imperial Stouts, Belgian Dark Strongs, or most - if not all - lagers.

1. and 3.) The products will likely taste differently, but whether that is a good or a bad thing depends on the beer style.

2.) Crashing is rarely a good idea. Any temperature changes during fermentation and conditioning should be very slow and gradual, on the order of 2-3 degrees a day. So I slowly drop the temp from the late fermentation temperature (usually somewhere around 70) to 40ish degrees over the course of a week or two.

 

[RM-MN]

Secondaries aren't supposed to be a second fermentation unless you are adding fermentables like fruit. Their purpose is more of a bright tank where the yeast that has completed the fermentation can settle out more. If the yeast are really completely done, cold crashing won't hurt a thing, it just speeds up the settling process.

 

[Matt3989]

2.) Crashing is rarely a good idea. Any temperature changes during fermentation and conditioning should be very slow and gradual, on the order of 2-3 degrees a day. So I slowly drop the temp from the late fermentation temperature (usually somewhere around 70) to 40ish degrees over the course of a week or two.

I've never heard of crashing being a bad thing before, not saying that it's not true, but you post up more info it?

And just a warning, when you go to the porch, cover the fermenter a thick blanket or something similar to block out sunlight.

 

[ArcaneXor]

I've never heard of crashing being a bad thing before, not saying that it's not true, but you post up more info it?

I'll see if I can find a reference, but it is pretty common knowledge that microorganisms can express temperature shock proteins, which manifest as off-flavors in beverages, when subjected to rapid temperature swings. This is not related to the stage of fermentation.

As with all things beer-related, be patient. Does it really matter if it takes another few days for the beer to clarify if the flavor is cleaner as a result?

 

[Wynne-R]

Crashing is rarely a good idea. Any temperature changes during fermentation and conditioning should be very slow and gradual, on the order of 2-3 degrees a day. So I slowly drop the temp from the late fermentation temperature (usually somewhere around 70) to 40ish degrees over the course of a week or two.

I think you’re making that up. I do 2-3 degrees an hour. I imagine commercial breweries are quite a bit faster.

To be clear, I have glass carboys up to their neck in water. I measure the water temp, which tracks very closely with the beer temp. The beer temp will lag the water temp, but not a lot. Probably 30 - 60 minutes.

 

[acidrain]

I'll see if I can find a reference, but it is pretty common knowledge that microorganisms can express temperature shock proteins, which manifest as off-flavors in beverages, when subjected to rapid temperature swings. This is not related to the stage of fermentation.

As with all things beer-related, be patient. Does it really matter if it takes another few days for the beer to clarify if the flavor is cleaner as a result?

Pretty common knowledge that cold crashing quickly drops the yeast and trub so that a more clear beer can be siphoned off.
Never heard of slow crashing... did you just make that up?

 

[brew_ny]

2.) Crashing is rarely a good idea. Any temperature changes during fermentation and conditioning should be very slow and gradual, on the order of 2-3 degrees a day. So I slowly drop the temp from the late fermentation temperature (usually somewhere around 70) to 40ish degrees over the course of a week or two.

I go from grain to glass in around 14 days, I cold crash from 68 to 32 in 8 to 10 hours

for 2 or 3 days and into the keg on gas for 3 days and into the glass

never have had bad tasting beer

but maybe I have just been lucky but I think not as I have no luck other then bad luck

so when you find that reference I would indeed love to read it about slowly cold crashing

all the best

S_M

 

[BansheeRider]

I'll see if I can find a reference, but it is pretty common knowledge that microorganisms can express temperature shock proteins, which manifest as off-flavors in beverages, when subjected to rapid temperature swings. This is not related to the stage of fermentation.

As with all things beer-related, be patient. Does it really matter if it takes another few days for the beer to clarify if the flavor is cleaner as a result?

It's common knowledge that homebrewers and even professional brewery establishments cold crash their beer resulting in a much clearer beer. It is also common knowledge that time and patience will also result in clearer beer, however, if you are a commercial brewer you have to keep up with supply and demand.