Aquaponic Hops

[Mutilated1]

What are you planning on doing over the winter when it gets colder ?

 

[WortMonger]

Barley, wheat, and brussel sprouts. The goldies should overwinter in the tank, and the movement should prevent solid freezing of anything. I'm also thinking about wrapping the white tubes in black wrap for extra heat. Barley is supposed to be a great "nitrate filter," and it grows better/only in colder climates.

As for the worms, I plan on tricking them into real composter bins with food after harvesting all the summer plants. Some will stay, most will go for the bread in the composter. They love bread like Tyrone Biggums likes his crack.

I will do the same for the bio-filter bucket, with the exception that the entire bucket will be replaced with a new gravel bucket (worm-less until next grow season) and left to run to suck up and store worm food for next year. Then I will add the worms and plants back same as this year, and it will have gone full circle.

You guys all need manure worm compost bins IMHO. These things are great for everything from "all" your house wastes, down to just a small coffee grounds and bread only "little" system. These worms, when happy, eat their weight in food everyday and make 100% water soluble 1-0-0 NPK fertilizer that is impossible to burn your plants with. Worm poop is the perfect nitrogen fertilizer, even surpassing guano for the simple fact of it's non-burning traits.

I'm doing a 7-11 Big Gulp worm bin for indoors this year. I won't even make it to the ceiling stacking these cups upon themselves for a worm bin, so that is pretty space efficient. Basically cups with holes in the bottom, filled with a little bedding (damp not wet shredded paper), and then add food on top placing more bedding on top of that. Close it off from light since they hate it, and make sure any air holes are small enough for gnats/flies/insects to not make it inside. They don't stink when you do it right, and makes your garbage work for you.

I composted an entire years paperwork that filled a 55 gallon garbage can into a large coffee can of pure compost. My parents were amazed. If I had used that same paperwork (for bedding only for my worms) and done vermicomposting on the same pile of paperwork, I would have been able to make 10 times as much compost. This is because I would have fed them all the other trash as well that was edible. So, we threw away all that fertilizer in my mind, and the trash stunk up the garage until trash day. Seems win-win-win to me. I'm using beer boxes as my bedding this year for my worms. I have about 30#'s of beer trash stacked up waiting to be eaten. The cans are getting melted down as soon as I complete my foundry. Now to recycle glass and I will have a curbside trash can the size of a coffee can, lol. Well, I can wish anyways.

I'm not even one of those greenies that has to "watch the planet" with everything they do. I just think it is fun. Al Gore can kiss my grits, a volcano does more damage then You or I ever would to this planet. I just hate looking at trash, and dumps are just that, DUMPS! Must be the Eagle Scout in me .

 

[Mutilated1]

Have you thought about using any kind of fish other than gold fish ?

I'm going to start mine with goldfish or maybe Bream and minnows cause I can get them cheap and easy, but it would be great to be able to harvest fish out of it too.

 

[WortMonger]

Yes, goldies are just easier now. Check out www.backyardaquaponics.com. Everything you could ever want to know, or ask. Minnows are a great idea, cheap.

 

[pilotdane]

You have never seen such a funny sight as they day, several years ago, when my wife came home from work all excited to show me her worms. "They are not normal worms. They are special composting worms". So I just nodded and smiled. Yep, those are mighty fine worms...

 

[WortMonger]

LOL, "Those are some mighty fine worms!" LOL Funny is that I am as giddy as she was then, NOW!!! They are just frickin' worms but... too cool. OK I'm officially a dork now, but I will fly that flag proudly and eat my veggies made from worm poopie.

 

[WortMonger]

OK, got in from my weekend trip and checked the fish tank. Man, is this thing clear as crystal. I can see I am missing some fish and need to get a screen tomorrow, lol. I will wake up early and try to take some picture for you guys. The growth these plants put on in the last two days is amazing. Almost everything is dark green, the exception being a pepper plant I need to look into in the light tomorrow. I am dumbfounded. The hops are growing like crazy on the side of the house and don't even look like a cut into them at all. My cuttings are all pointed up and very healthy looking.

I cannot believe this is working as good as it is for me my first time out. The cuttings give me hope for using the tubes next year, and just cloning 36 new hops plants. I am going nuts thinking about the possibilities. I'm going to try to clone the white oak tree in the front yard I think.

 

[scinerd3000]

The cans are getting melted down as soon as I complete my foundry

dude...tell me more. Thats sweet but what exactly are you going to melt them into? DETAILS Man...!

 

[WortMonger]

Here's a link to the thread pizzaman started about foundry work. This way this thread can stay on topic, well as much as I ever stay on topic, LOL. Melting metal is fun!!! Dangerous, but fun.

 

[WortMonger]

Alright guys, the newest pics since I made it back from Edmond this weekend.

First off, and most important since the thread is named for it, the hop cuttings I took last week.

Here's the trellis system I built. Still needs some structural support but will work nicely for what I am doing.

Here's the "stick" Roma tomato that keeps surviving. Tough little bugger.

Squash forming nicely.

Bell peppers forming very nicely. These smell great already.

Habanero is yellow on older leaves, but the new growth is all dark like the rest of the garden. Weird stuff going on here.

 

[WortMonger]

I got the 1st set of strings tied up to the trellis for support and to start vertical growing. Looking good, really good. Water is still like crystal and the fish are fat!!! I think the hops are loving their rooting cups, since they are still not drooping. They look like they are in suspended animation or something. They aren't growing, they aren't dying, they aren't anything except the exact same as when I planted them. I'm giving them another full week (for a total of 2 weeks in the cups) before I check them for roots. I feel that is enough time to see. What do you guys think?

 

[buzzkill]

as long as they are green they are good...

they been riding the storms out..:cross:

 

[WortMonger]

Acually, yes! The night I took the cuttings we had 75 MPH winds around Ada. I watched the flagstick behind my parents house on the golf course bend over and touch the green, almost. I had never seen that before. So I braved the rain to get home only to watch the plants bend in the wind. They all made it unscathed. The cups I put them in and the protection around them really helped them withstand the fury. Now that they are all strung up with lines I bet they are even more protected from winds. Hail can keep staying away though. That's bad little stuff isn't it, here in Oklahoma?

 

[illin8]

Dude, I just have to say...

This is friggin' awesome...my wife is gonna kill me when I get home and tell her about a new NEW soon-to-be hobby...LOL

 

[WortMonger]

LOL, well put it too her like this; Worms are cheap, feeder goldfish are cheap, Rubbermaid trashcans are cheap, PVC is cheap (not the cap ends on the big stuff though $$$), gravel is cheap, water is cheap, the pumps (air and garden fountain) are cheap, seeds are really cheap (so are greenhouse starts), and fish food is cheap. Cheap the whole way around, and then compare what you grew to organic prices in the supermarket... goldmine! I think the hardest sell is the way it looks. Kinda trashy for a nice neighborhood, but behind a privacy fence who cares? Notice we have chain link... our neighbors love us I bet, lol.

I will be weighing everything that comes off the garden, and totaling with compared value just to see my savings. I want to document everything here in this thread. Cannot wait to see the monetary value of vegetable matter/possible hop propagation sales. I'm wondering what 36 Cascade cuttings can produce this next year in sell-able plants for others. I can only imagine.

 

[fred_zepp]

dude...this is way too cool. i was already thinking of building a pond this fall to catch all the rain water and help keep the hop yard from being way too soggy this winter. maybe the pond will have some alternate uses as well. hmm...

 

[southern brewer]

Don't forget to take into account that next season, you won't have nearly as much of a cost to get started. Unless you expand of course. otherwise you'll just replace your worms (maybe), get some more fish (maybe), and some seeds. thats where the real savings would start to show.

 

[WortMonger]

dude...this is way too cool. i was already thinking of building a pond this fall to catch all the rain water and help keep the hop yard from being way too soggy this winter. maybe the pond will have some alternate uses as well. hmm...

My grandfather always had a tank with goldfish in it that he watered from. Now, I know why. I think a couple of tanks that kept the fish tank full would be a great idea. Water from the fish tank, then refill with rainwater.

Don't forget to take into account that next season, you won't have nearly as much of a cost to get started. Unless you expand of course. otherwise you'll just replace your worms (maybe), get some more fish (maybe), and some seeds. thats where the real savings would start to show.

Exactly!!! All the animals mentioned are easily saved from the cold by either simple harvest or by being able to over-winter in the tank. You can freeze goldfish and they will come back. The worms won't be as tolerant of the cold, but bread is the key to getting them into whatever container I want them in. Then, I can continue to use them indoors composting and propagating for the next season.

 

[Dig]

Man, WhereTF have I been!!! I gotta say that I absolutely love your projects, all of 'em.

Your plants want more nitrogen. That is why there is a general yellowing, of all your plants, from bottom to top.

When winter comes I would suggest that you mothball the thing. Put your fish in a fish tank. Nothing likes to grow if their roots are cold. Luckily you live in a place with 8 months worth of grow time.

You need a trellis for all of your plants. It helps all around.



Do you know the temps of your water? Or the pH of the water?


I NEED to come to Oklahoma. Ya see, I know a guy there

 

[WortMonger]

So, yure sayin' I need more of them fishes? WTF is up brother? You need to come to Oklahoma badly, and yes... you do know a guy there! I just trellised the plants yesterday, and they are really sturdy now. I used the Florida Weave technique. The goldfish will survive in the tank over winter, they stop eating and moving a lot at 40*F. You can freeze these bad boys and they can survive. I agree with the crops, but I plan on trying cereal grasses just for a fun winter crop. As for the pH and the water temperature, I have no idea. I am buying a nitrogen test kit and a floating thermometer. I also have access to pH paper, but I am pretty sure my water is good. It is fricken crystal clear and smells clean as well.

Justin,
Check out my kilted pics from this past weekend, you're going to love them. Go to post #221. That's my Casey starting off the pictures. Also, have you broke out your wedding gift yet? LOL, if not, I can't wait till you do! Hope you get back on to respond.

 

[WortMonger]

Yay, my friend Justin just called me this afternoon and we got to chat for a bit. He's the horticulture guy (has a degree and is in the biz), and I'm the project/experiment without much absolute , knowledge guy, LOL. He's worried, as I am now, about phosphorus once the fruit starts coming in. Other trace elements as well, are a real concern. It is an experiment after all, so I can't get too bent out of shape if it doesn't work. Lets just still all keep our fingers crossed though.

Well, as of today I have fruit coming in that isn't just peppers. Here's a squash forming nicely, now if it comes in with no problem... I have enough phosphorus. Just hope it isn't a limited thing and the veggies that do form to completion don't deplete the minerals for the others.

And more on the way it looks like!!!

Lots of cantaloupe flowers as well.

Bells still forming nicely and more of them popping up now too. Looks like I'm well on my way to the first harvest, but I reserve the thoughts of being overconfident.

The water is still brilliantly clear, and the hop cuttings are looking like they may be getting taller!!! I hope so, because that will mean they are rooted and need to be planted in the tubes. Here's another tank shot and then you get to see the babies that this thread was supposed to be all about (yes, I am getting there).

OK, so you guys probably want to see the whole shebang just for another growth reference. Also, you can see the trellising job I did. The weave really is making the plants sturdy.

I am very happy with how things are turning out and remain very positive. You horticulture guys chiming in really help me out, so keep it coming .

 

[Mutilated1]

darn - I'm at work and I can't see your pictures - they're blocked

 

[WortMonger]

Well, the hop cuttings are looking a little yellow, so I put them more in the shade. I am adding coffee grounds directly to the water and am over-feeding the fish until I can get another nitrogen spike. As for the phosphorus dilemma, found out about compost tea and am brewing some of that up as an addition to the grow-beds. It should filter out before it hits the tank, but it isn't harmful to the fish if it does make it through. My bet is that the plants take it before it gets to the tank. I really need more fish, and am heading to the bait shop for minnows since frickin' small-town Wal-Mart doesn't have anything but champagne colored $0.28 goldfish, and you have to wait a half-hour because they only have like 6 people on staff (and one of those is the checker).

 

[gratus fermentatio]

If your goldfish/koi eat the minnows/baitfish, this will increase both the nitrogen & phosphorous in their excreta. You could get some commercial fish food with added phosphorous too, though I know the idea is to recycle. You could set up another tank/aquarium just to breed minnows/baitfish, if you can successfully breed them, you don't have to buy them anymore.

I'm wondering if growing peas would help raise your nitrogen levels. Peas & some other legumes actually put nitrogen back into the soil they grow in, I'm just not sure they would do this in a hydroponic environment; your horticultualist friend may have the answer on that one.

As for the question of iron chelate (from the other thread), now that I know what your project is, I feel safe enough in saying if you use the organic liquid iron chelate (contains no EDTA) GrowOrganic: Fertall Liquid Iron Chelate (Gallon) as a foliar application ONLY, and use a handheld trigger style spray bottle to mist the solution onto the foliage, I'm 99% certain it will have zero impact on your fish.

Earlier in this thread you mentioned "cloning" your oak tree. ALL plant cutting are simply extensions of the original plant. Better than actual cellular cloning, it's genetics are identical, with NO cellular mutations. I'd use Hormex rooting powder on those cuttings.

To avoid transplant shock & stimulate root growth, you might try using a product that contains indole-3 butyric acid Indole-3-Butyric Acid (046701) Fact Sheet | Pesticides | US EPA It's great stuff, but the added inert contents of a commercial garden mix might be an issue with your fish, be sure to read the label(s) carefully.

I know this is a long reply, but I'm trying to respond to several things without having to create a post for each thing. Also, this project of yours is VERY COOL! Regards, GF.

EDIT: Just a thought here, but if you're concerned about the compost tea, or anything else getting back to your fish, you could easily add 1 more step to the system to solve that problem. If you used a bucket with a tube outlet near the bottom & put a screen over it on the inside to prevent clogging like a false bottom in AG brewing, place a layer of gravel in the bottom, a layer of activated charcoal over that (at least 3 inches thick) & another layer of gravel over that; simply run your growtube outlet into the bucket & then into your fishtank instead of directly into the fishtank. Regards, GF.

 

[Synovia]

He's worried, as I am now, about phosphorus once the fruit starts coming in.

I'm not a horticultural guy, but I am a fish guy. Typical fish foods have LOADS of phosphate in them. Its a real problem for marine guys

 

[WortMonger]

Thanks to the both of you. I answered the other post as well, before I read this one. I'm trying some compost tea tonight or tomorrow morning. Hopefully everything turns green again after that.

 

[WortMonger]

Ok, so I just went and checked today on the cuttings. Well, they look like they did the other day. Still with one tip drying out and the other still standing. Peeked over the cup on the larger one thinking I wouldn't see much worse than it looks on top. Surprise!!! Roots coming out in every direction from the top leaves I cut off. That is on the one I was thinking looked like a gonner. I can only imagine what the root structure looks like on other nodes.

So, I literally have aquaponic hops now.:rockin: The rest of the garden is looking good, and I just added a weak dose of compost tea to the grow-beds. Hopefully, I will have leaves turning deep green again. I will take pictures and post tonight. Still haven't found a cheap enough source of fish yet. Might have to drive to Wal-Mart and buy the nasty looking $.28 fish they have. Oh well, it is going good so I remain perectly optomistic. Pictures coming....

 

[WortMonger]

Here they are folks...

Here is the first cutting planted.

Look at the roots on this sucker.

Look at the new growth coming from the leaf nodes, both sets!!!

Look at my first squash.

And my first cheyenne.

Bell is getting big now too.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Thought you might find one of these sites useful as some possible fish sources: Lochow Ranch - we're proud of our ponds

Feeder Fish Are Here!

Fathead Minnows, Shiner Minnows, Black Salty live bait

Regards, GF.

 

[WortMonger]

Thanks for the fish info. I like the fatheads, LOL.

I am trying again today for minnows. I hate the idea of paying $.28 ea. for ugly fish that will probably die, from Wally World. Might have to if I can't find minnows today. I need fish poop like no one has ever needed fish poop before, lol.

I am very curious abut my worms in the bucket. They seem to have the perfect environment, just turned upside down and under water. Normally they would have to climb up to their food and then back down to where they sleep and poop. That is until it gets nasty, and then they leave to make another home repeating the process over-again.

In the bucket, their food comes up to them and their poop is instantly cleaned away from wherever they excreted. They never have to do anything "except eat"!!! The stuff they eat is so soft that they actually eat faster than in-ground worms would with solid waste. I am fighting the temptation to look at the bucket. "It ain't broke, so to speak, so why mess with it?" Must remember this, must remember this, must remember... what? I'm so bad with patience.