Aquaponic Hops

[WortMonger]

Well, I finally got up off my butt and built an aquaponic growing system this year for veggies. I have wanted to do this forever, and finally had a stable enough place to complete my endless thoughts. I saw on Modern Marvels, Space Farm Enterprises, growing hydroponic hops and thought I would just go ahead and incorporate them into the system this year.

So, here it is from the beginning. I ran out of daylight today and will take pictures tomorrow of the planted grow-tubes. I used 6" PVC schedule 40 tubes. I had to saw off the flange at the ends for them to fit the end caps, so they are now only 9.5' long. They were fluted out to fit easily on one another, which would be great for longer grow-tubes in a bigger system one day. The tank is a 110 gallon stock tank from Tractor Supply Company, just $59.99+tax, not bad!!! Here is a close-up of the cuts made for planting holes (and yes, I de-burred them). My Crocodile Saw made short work of these holes, man I love that thing. There are only 9 planting holes per tube, with one hole for drain clean-out.

Here's the stand almost finished. I had to ad two more bracing 2X4's for extra support for the droopy PVC tubes.

The grow-tubes placed for showing the spacing.

I am so fricken tired from hauling gravel and mowing lawns today that I didn't get any photos today, but they will be here for your weekend enjoyment tomorrow, lol. Hope you guys enjoy so far, and tune in tomorrow.

 

[EvilTOJ]

OH no, another WortMonger thread. This is going to be interesting, for sure!

 

[RogerK]

Very cool!

The problem I would have is my wife would plant tomatoes in it:cross:

Looking forward to see how it works for you.

 

[WortMonger]

I finished, yea!!! It took till dark again, due to unforeseen work I needed to do elsewhere. Pictures, pictures, pictures, and then I will just continue to update from here.

Here's the setup without the plants.

Here's the plumbing going into the grow-tubes. This is pumped by a simple aquarium air pump, which still needs some fine tuning.

Here is the grow-tubes planted, FINALLY!!!! All sorts of veggies here; Roma tomatoes, cucumbers, bell pepper, cayenne pepper, jalapenos, zucchini squash, yellow squash, some okra and my single cascade hop plant.

Here's a close-up of a tomato (sorry, just a little fuzzy). These were very easy to get into the gravel with a hand garden spade. The gravel was very damp at just a few inches deep, so I am very hopeful for the veggies and a lot curious about the hop rhizome.

I will get more pictures tomorrow of the setup and hopefully of the cages for the viney veggies (toms, cucs, and squash). I know, I know, only one hop plant??? Well, they are expensive and harder to get at a whim, so I decided one was good enough for this test. I have 3 more in the ground I can get clones from next year to continue more test if necessary. I hope this turns into a great thread, but it will be honest and may not be very much information... I simply don't know yet. I do know it is fun as crap and can't wait for food and hops.

 

[WortMonger]

I seem to have lost some plants (which I figured on) but the ones still there are happy. I will do more when it grows up a little so stay tuned.

This is sooooo much fun!!!:rockin:

 

[pilotdane]

What an interesting project. I am curious to see how the hops does. If it survives and thrives I wonder how large the rhizome will get? I am imagining you cutting the tubing apart at the end of the season to get the rhizome out.

I know nothing about hydroponics. Does a plant grow the normal size/amount of roots or are the roots smaller because everything is perfectly presented to them?

 

[Cold_Steel]

When do you add the nutrients? Did your plants start out in dirt? How often are you cycling the water through? Is there a timer for the cycling? Just curious.

 

[ATL]

in addition to crystalcabot's questions, what is your growing medium? I'm not a hydroponic expert by any means (a friend's grandpa had a hydro setup for tomatoes and another friend's father in law showed me his ebb and flow setup for various plants (none of the illegal variety)) but it looks like just some plain rocks to me, will the plants be able to entangle their roots in that?

i'm guessing you did your homework, the setup looks nice I've been toying with the idea of a hydroponic setup in the backyard (I've been gardening in the soil much longer than I've been drinking, let alone making beer )

 

[eriktlupus]

most setups are designed to use an animal in the system to provide nutrients for the plants. usually fish(koi or tilapia) in the stock tank and redworms in the gravel runs to convert the fish effluent to usable forms for the plants.

 

[staffVAJoe]

Waiting for someone to make a marijuana joke here.... any one? any one?

 

[Eves]

I am curious what will happen after harvest. I mean what do you do with the rhizomes? And then there is the whole thing about the roots of hops being hardy and potentially large (after a few seasons). If you cut them off after every season will they ever produce a lot of hops without the large root system you often get with mature hop plants?


And the marijuana jokes...I'm sure there are plenty of people who have thought about them but just haven't posted yet.

 

[WortMonger]

most setups are designed to use an animal in the system to provide nutrients for the plants. usually fish(koi or tilapia) in the stock tank and red worms in the gravel runs to convert the fish effluent to usable forms for the plants.

Right on the money! I have 12-14 Shubunkin goldfish in the tank and am waiting on red wigglers for the tubes.

Also to the other questions, water is cycled through very slowly (.5 gpm). No maintaining nutrients, just maintaining healthy fish water. It is a closed system (I must really like closed systems and ()'s LOL). Basics are, fish make ammonia. Ammonia is turned into nitrites and then nitrates by naturally occurring bacteria that lives in the 1/2" granite gravel growing medium. Nitrates are then filtered out by the plants as fertilizer, which cleans the water for the fish. Worms live in the grow-tubes and eat the solid waste from the fish tank, and their poop (castings) are some of the best fertilizer on the planet. These provide the other nutrients needed for flowering and fruiting. The Egyptians used aquaponics so it isn't new. I'm mobile so I'll write more later.

 

[WortMonger]

What an interesting project. I am curious to see how the hops does. If it survives and thrives I wonder how large the rhizome will get? I am imagining you cutting the tubing apart at the end of the season to get the rhizome out.

I know nothing about hydroponics. Does a plant grow the normal size/amount of roots or are the roots smaller because everything is perfectly presented to them?

It grows normally, the roots are finer and feathery. I will remove the rhizome and half it for two next year (or another experiment for cloning bines I haven't decided yet).

 

[Cold_Steel]

This is really interesting. I was thinking this is a hydroponic set up but you say its a aquaponics. I have never heard of this system before but it is very kewl. I would imagine if you feed the fish organic foods you would be producing orgainic aquaponics.
Does this sytem have the same growth speed as hydroponics?

 

[WortMonger]

This is hydroponics, the only difference is the fish and worms instead of the bottles of chemicals. As far as organic, yes everything I produce will be organic. In an aquaponic system, you can't use anything bad or it will kill your fish and worms. I wanted to raise tilapia to eat, but the goldfish will do much better for my system in Oklahoma. Since most people eat the fish they raise in one of these systems, you also wouldn't want anything bad in the system. So, you can see that it is hydroponics and organics all in one simple ecosystem. The golden ratio for aquaponics is 1 pound of fish per 2 gallons of water per 4 gallons of grow bed. I have twice as much water as I need as a buffer, but I could just go buy some more fish and 4 more grow-tubes and be just as productive. There is a ton of info on the internet, but I have found backyardaquaponics.com to be very informative. You guys should check out their members systems pages. Some of these guys set up acres of greenhouses with aquaponic systems. As with brewing, it is the Aussie's that are doing all the whacky stuff in that forum as well, lol.

 

[ATL]

that's really interesting, I've never heard of such a setup, it seems a lot simpler and cheaper than any of the other hydro setups I've seen

thanks for the link, I'll look into this for next year

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Very interesting indeed.

I am curious how this could be incorporated for a mature hop yard as I expect this system would (edit) not be very conducive to the large root/rhisome system.

I also wonder how well the would handle the rigors of such tall plants constantly pulling against the tubes trying to uproot itself.

Lots of questions on a great idea. I'd expect if hop plants can tolerate the system they would be very happy indeed.

 

[scinerd3000]

this is sweet. Im also excited to see how the hops fare but i love the idea of using fish

 

[WortMonger]

Very interesting indeed.

I am curious how this could be incorporated for a mature hop yard as I expect this system would be very conducive to the large root/rhisome system.

I also wonder how well the would handle the rigors of such tall plants constantly pulling against the tubes trying to uproot itself.

Lots of questions on a great idea. I'd expect if hop plants can tolerate the system they would be very happy indeed.

Honestly, if I were just raising hops I would do a true NFT (or nutrient flow technique) and have little buckets with holes and temporary growing medium along the PVC grow-tubes. The tubes would have the same flow, just not all the gravel. You would have to have the gravel somewhere else to keep filtration going, but the roots would be easier to get at for splitting into more rhizomes (for commecial sale). These hops will only be here a year. They might be back next year after halfing, but the roots get way to large to let them stay. As for the tallness of the plants pulling to get out of the tubes, I'm going to use tomato cages and a pole and string. Just like the BYO potted hops write-up, only with the tomato cage addition to swirl the plant around for limiting its overall height. If that doesn't work, I will just run a pole outside the garden and attach string to the tubes between them. I have a ton of yard to work with for the hops length.

 

[Dude]

Wow, amazing project. Looks awesome. I am curious as hell to see the status on the hops. I've often thought of trying hops in one of our aerogrow gardens.

 

[WortMonger]

Well, just checked on the plants and everything is yellowing. I am not happy, but I do know not enough time has passed for significant bacterial growth. It could be transplant shock, but I also didn't introduce the plants gradually into the direct sun either so.... The hops (now two) didn't have any buds on them, but were pretty thick. When they arrived, they looked kind of rotten on the ends. I cut off the rot and planted them as deep as I could get them, but at a 30-45* angle up. Regardless of what happens, I will keep plugging away with plants.

Edit: Yep, need more plants, lol!!!

 

[scinerd3000]

i know aquarium stores sell bacteria to dump in new fishtanks...i believe petco has them- you could always try dumping it into the tank?

 

[doubleb]

This looks very cool Wortmonger. One question, when growing season is over and it starts getting colder, what do you do with the worms and fish?

 

[WortMonger]

i know aquarium stores sell bacteria to dump in new fishtanks...i believe petco has them- you could always try dumping it into the tank?

Thanks for the heads-up. I might have to give them a try.

This looks very cool Wortmonger. One question, when growing season is over and it starts getting colder, what do you do with the worms and fish?

Thank you very much, it is a work in progress for sure. Way, way, way fun though!

Who says the grow season has to be over? I'm thinking up some ways to experiment with winter crops and maybe fill it with winter barley or rye (rye is an excellent nitrate remover). The fish will slow down eating but will not freeze. Wish I knew what veggies could possibly grow in cold.

I'm not worried about freezing, as the fish/roots/worms will be warm enough from the black fish tank recirculating the warmer water. I was even thinking of wrapping the white PVC tubes with black masking, for more heat production in the really cold season.

If the need to harvest the worms warrants it, I could through placement of a new worm bed in each grow-tube. Worm bed meaning: a new place for them to come and eat "better/more diverse food" than what they had been eating. The great thing about vermiculture bed systems, is that they tend to fit one-on-the-other and all have drain holes on the bottom... so you can just set them in the gravel and fill them with food. The worms come up and eat, slowly beginning to occupy the new bed. Two weeks would be all I would need to get most of the worms out of the grow beds. Then I would just put them in my dry-based worm bed (made from a tower of stacked containers, or go fishing:rockin:. Regardless, I will have worms for next year via my dry-based vermiculture bed.

Update!!!
I'm down to one tomato, and a few peppers. Only one pepper plant looks un-phased. Like I said, expected under the circumstances. I will buy and plant immediately!

 

[WortMonger]

One other thing I am working on that I could use some help, just in case one of you is more knowledgeable .

I am wondering if either one of these ideas will help my pump increase flow? It is called a geyser pump, and supposedly pulses water at a higher volume than regular airlift pumps are capable of. Suggestions?

 

[eriktlupus]

wort,,
not sure how those are supposed to work so i can't comment on the efficiency or lack thereof of either design. wouldn't it be easier to buy a pump like this Smartpond at Lowe's: 100-155 GPH Submersible Fountain Pond Pump rather than dink around with internet designs?

 

[pilotdane]

I have never seen a geyser pump so take my thoughts with a grain of salt. As I understand the pumps they accumulate a large volume of air at the bottom of the standpipe and "burp" it into the pipe. This big bubble rapidly rises pushing the water above out and also creates a suction drawing water in from below.

Pump on left: All the extra pipe seems to be doing is adding extra pipe length. I am not sure what benefit the pipe length offers.

The pump on the right might work. It is certainly cheap and easy to make so you might as well try it.

The designs I saw online seem to use two cups instead of tubing. I'm not sure if it is an important detail. Perhaps the cup allow a larger volume of air to flow quickly without the restriction and limited volume of a pipe.
This is the only picture I could find of the internals of a geyser pump. There seems to be some intentional misinformation in the diagrams I found online. I imagine the manufacturers are trying to conceal a really simple design that anyone could build.

 

[WortMonger]

wort,,
not sure how those are supposed to work so i can't comment on the efficiency or lack thereof of either design. wouldn't it be easier to buy a pump like this Smartpond at Lowe's: 100-155 GPH Submersible Fountain Pond Pump rather than dink around with internet designs?

I was with you on the whole "why a airlift pump", until I realized the benefits of no moving parts and larger open spaces in the pump mechanisms. When you are dealing with pond scum, you are going to clog a regular pump eventually. In this system a clogged pump = dead fish. I have a nice one I bought for my icewater bath chiller that I might use if all else fails, but the airlift is lifting stuff from the bottom and leaving it in the grow-beds. I just need a little more ummph out of it is all.

I have never seen a geyser pump so take my thoughts with a grain of salt. As I understand the pumps they accumulate a large volume of air at the bottom of the standpipe and "burp" it into the pipe. This big bubble rapidly rises pushing the water above out and also creates a suction drawing water in from below.

Pump on left: All the extra pipe seems to be doing is adding extra pipe length. I am not sure what benefit the pipe length offers.

The pump on the right might work. It is certainly cheap and easy to make so you might as well try it.

The designs I saw online seem to use two cups instead of tubing. I'm not sure if it is an important detail. Perhaps the cup allow a larger volume of air to flow quickly without the restriction and limited volume of a pipe.
This is the only picture I could find of the internals of a geyser pump. There seems to be some intentional misinformation in the diagrams I found online. I imagine the manufacturers are trying to conceal a really simple design that anyone could build.[/qoute]

Thanks for the picture of the geyser pump. I haven't seen that one yet. The one I saw was, as you said, two cups with a exit tube going through both. The other one I saw had a single outside cub and inside was a U-shaped tube, like a P-trap. As the air pushes the water out of the outside cup, it is also pushing water down and then back up the "U" until the waterline is to the bottom of the U. Then the air rushes up the "inside the exit tube" part of the U and allows a larger amount of air behind the water. I was trying to accomplish the U-type of setup with drawing "A." With all the additional pipework I figured it would provide the same resistance as the U-type design I saw, as well as allow the air to enter the exit pipe lower than the U-type drawing I saw. In the U-type, the end of both "U's" were very high, one at the near top of the outside container and the other end the same hieght only insed the drain pipe. I now think drawing "B" would be a waste, but I will try it first, as it is basically the initial construction of "A."

Thanks for your input guys, makes me think and re-think so I'm happy. Keep it coming!:rockin:

 

[eriktlupus]

since your worried about particle matter (chunks) why not use a sewage pump($130-300) or use a pump from a dishwasher(@35). the dishwasher should be able to handle the algae and fish crap or any small fish that get sucked in for that matter. you'd just have to have a bottom line outside of your tank, look for a bilge pump thru-wall kit for this.


dish pump:Amazon.com: Dishwasher Drain Pump Assembly - 154407401: Home & Garden

bilge kit: Cabela's -- Bilge Pump Plumbing Kit

 

[blefferd]

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