Apple Pie a la Mode Sour ale

[Rob2010SS]

Had a beer from Eagle Park Brewing in WI called Cobbler A La Mode. It's a sour ale with peach, plum, cinnamon, nutmeg, brown sugar, vanilla, and natural flavors. It was fantastic!!! Straight up liquid pie/cobbler.

Looking to do something similar but have it be more like an apple pie, hence the title.

1. I've never used spices. Anyone have any experience with...
- cinnamon? If so, how much did you use and how did you use it?
- nutmeg? If so, how much did you use and how did you use it?
- brown sugar? If so, how much did you use and how did you use it?
**Also, I would think the brown sugar flavor would ferment out completely. Would you even need it?
2. Never used apples either. Seems like a very subtle flavor and would be hard to pull through in the final product. Anyone had success here?

I was speaking with a brewer at a brewery near me and they mentioned that when they use cinnamon, they actually mix it up and boil it down to a super concentrated mixture and add that mixture to their beers.

Any help or tips appreciated.

 

[DBhomebrew]

2. Never used apples either. Seems like a very subtle flavor and would be hard to pull through in the final product. Anyone had success here?

I'm really pleased with this, my first attempt at a graf.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/a-wee-heavy-graf.690253/#post-9106688

 

[Dr_Jeff]

apple pie spice is a pre-mixed spice, on the spice aisle in the grocery store, that will get your ratios correct on the first attempt, the only question now is how much to use.

 

[Rob2010SS]

apple pie spice is a pre-mixed spice, on the spice aisle in the grocery store, that will get your ratios correct on the first attempt, the only question now is how much to use.

Shows how much I know! I didn't know this was a thing. Thanks!

Hoping someone can chime in regarding amounts.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

brown sugar is white sugar, that has been mixed/sprayed with molasses, so maybe a bit of molasses in the recipe

 

[Jag75]

I made an apple spiced cider once and I can tell you spices go a long way. As for brown sugar , I agree with @Dr_Jeff . I'd go molasses. I tried brown sugar in a pumpkin ale and it came out drier then an afghans thong.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I made an apple spiced cider once and I can tell you spices go a long way. As for brown sugar , I agree with @Dr_Jeff . I'd go molasses. I tried brown sugar in a pumpkin ale and it came out drier then an afghans thong.

Hahahahahaha, drier than an afghans thong. Thanks for that, I haven't laughed that hard in a while. That's hilarious.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I made an apple spiced cider once and I can tell you spices go a long way. As for brown sugar , I agree with @Dr_Jeff . I'd go molasses. I tried brown sugar in a pumpkin ale and it came out drier then an afghans thong.

Any idea how much spice you used?

 

[yoop89]

I tried making an Apple Pie Sour last fall and it failed, sadly. It was still drinkable but was just a slightly spiced sour.

Apples are hard to extract flavor from using fruit so I would avoid that. I used my normal fruited sour as a guideline and went with 8 pounds of fresh Arkansas Blacks off a tree in my backyard. Frozen, then pulverized and added post ferm.

For the spice I simply just added a capful of trader joes apple pie spice, post ferm also. Very subtle flavor in the end but nice.

My notes for a batch this fall, I plan on trying to follow something similar to a graf and use fresh pressed cider ~50/50 with my base sour beer. I plan on keeping spices the same but add them in my short 15' boil.

Definitely following so I can adjust my recipe depending on how yours turns out

 

[Dr_Jeff]

I used the apple pie spice in a 2.5 gallon keg of apple pie moonshine, (everclear, apple juice and spice), I think I used a teaspoon or two in the entire keg, it has been topped of with more apple juice and everclear over the years, and I would typically shake it up afterwards, still going on the original spice dosage. I had used whatever amount that was on the recipe that I had found.

My suggestion would be to add frozen concentrate apple juice, the pie spice and molasses, to get where you want it. If you keg, you can always adjust it with additional frozen concentrate and spice after it is in the keg, but keep in mind, if you add more spice, one creates nucleation points and gets the results associated with it. I were going to add more spice, I would pour in a portion of the frozen concentrate, fully thawed, add the spice to the concentrate, making sure that it was full mixed, pour it into the keg and quickly close it quickly, hoping that the apple syrup might slow down the nucleation issue.

 

[yoop89]

you can always adjust it with additional frozen concentrate

You have to be real careful with this even if you keg. The yeast will still work on those sugars and if you go through the keg slowly you will end up with nothing but foam at the end as it continuosly carbonates.

I may know a guy this happened to with a honey kolsch that someone thought needed a touch more honey flavor.

 

[Jag75]

Any idea how much spice you used?

I used bagged mulled spices . Ive never used them in powder form. I use coriander in my wit but I dont think thats even comparable

 

[Rob2010SS]

Working on putting together this recipe. Figured I'd follow up here to see if I can get any additional feedback. Couple of notes...

1. I know brown sugar was not recommended here. However, it's used a lot by other people and even commercial places. I think the lactose I'm going to add to this recipe may counteract whatever dryness you get from it. I'm not 100% for sure using brown sugar, but I'm leaning towards it.

2. I forgot about the pre-mixed apple pie spices when I put this together so I may swap out the individual spices for that. However, I looked at a bunch of apple pie recipes and looked at the ratios they use. Not the amounts, but the ratios. I tried to mimic the ratios used a bit. Again, may switch this out for apple pie spice, but unsure yet.

3. Between the Victory and Honey, really trying to emulate a sweet/bready character here that when combined with the cinnamon and the vanilla, gives the sensation of the apple pie crust.

4. I'm missing some things, like hops and water profile, but it's a work in progress. Figured I'd tackle this part first.

5. For the apples, I'm on the fence of cleaning/coring/cubing the apples or buying Amoretti Apple Craft Puree. Heard of good results with the cubed apples but not a lot on the puree.

Any opinions/thoughts/changes on what I have here? What would you do differently?

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Fruit and Spice Beer
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 8 gallons (ending kettle volume)
Boil Size: 8.75 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.065
Efficiency: 75% (ending kettle)

Hop Utilization Multiplier: 0.97

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.078
Final Gravity: 1.023
ABV (standard): 7.21%
IBU (tinseth): 0
SRM (morey): 7.46
Mash pH: 5.72

FERMENTABLES:
18 lb - Pale 2-Row (72%)
1 lb - Victory (4%)
0.65 lb - Honey Malt (2.6%)
1.1 lb - Flaked Wheat (4.4%)
1 lb - Lactose (Milk Sugar) - (late addition) (4%)
4 oz - Brown Sugar - (late addition) (1%)
3 lb - Apple - (late addition) (12%)

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.125 tsp - Nutmeg, Time: 10 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil
0.75 tsp - cinnamon, Time: 10 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil
0.125 tsp - Allspice, Time: 10 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil
2 tbsp - Vanilla extract, Time: 2880 min, Type: Flavor, Use: Secondary

 

[DBhomebrew]

FWIW, my graf linked above is aging extremely well. I wouldn't hesitate to replace your apples with commercial fresh cider. All the processing done for you.

 

[Rob2010SS]

FWIW, my graf linked above is aging extremely well. I wouldn't hesitate to replace your apples with commercial fresh cider. All the processing done for you.

Just read through that thread. Interesting... So, I'm not familiar with a graf, but quick google search says it's an apple based beer. You just add the cider or juice into the fermenter with the wort?

Some have recommended frozen apple juice concentrate. Roughly same concept right?

Does it matter that this will be a sour?

 

[DBhomebrew]

Just read through that thread. Interesting... So, I'm not familiar with a graf, but quick google search says it's an apple based beer. You just add the cider or juice into the fermenter with the wort?

Some have recommended frozen apple juice concentrate. Roughly same concept right?

Does it matter that this will be a sour?

Yep! I just fermented 50:50 wort & fresh cider in the same fermenter all together. The cider is roughly 1.050. Pasteurization is a good thing, be sure there are no additives.

I have no experience with concentrate nor sours.

 

[Beernik]

Great minds think alike. I was thinking about formulating an apple pie IPA this morning.

Calypso might be a good option for hops. It’s usually described as “apple, pear, & citrus.”

a brewery I know that does a apple saison uses a Granny Smith concentrate.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Great minds think alike. I was thinking about formulating an apple pie IPA this morning.

Calypso might be a good option for hops. It’s usually described as “apple, pear, & citrus.”

a brewery I know that does a apple saison uses a Granny Smith concentrate.

I was reading about Calypso. I won't be able to use them in the boil but might be a nice dry hop addition if kept small enough.

 

[Beernik]

I agree. I’m thinking whirlpool addition with mine. I might drop it down to a PA to keep hops from overwhelming the apple.

I also think Victory is a good choice for a crusty flavor.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Well, recipe is done for now. There may be some tweaks mid-process but we'll see how it goes! Recipe is as follows. I'll post back as we get through this...

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Fruit and Spice Beer
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 8 gallons (ending kettle volume)
Boil Size: 8.75 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.068
Efficiency: 75% (ending kettle)

Hop Utilization Multiplier: 0.97

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.085
Final Gravity: 1.022
ABV (standard): 8.26%
IBU (tinseth): 0
SRM (morey): 7.8
Mash pH: 5.72

FERMENTABLES:
19 lb - Pale 2-Row (71%)
1.25 lb - Victory (4.7%)
0.5 lb - Honey Malt (1.9%)
1 lb - Flaked Wheat (3.7%)
1.75 lb - Lactose (Milk Sugar) - (late addition) (6.5%)
4 oz - Brown Sugar - (late addition) (0.9%)
3 lb - Apple - (late addition) (11.2%)

HOPS:
2 oz - Calypso, Type: Pellet, AA: 13, Use: Dry Hop for 2 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Strike, Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 7.5 gal
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.38 qt/lb

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.125 tsp - Nutmeg, Time: 20 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil
0.75 tsp - cinnamon, Time: 20 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil
0.125 tsp - Allspice, Time: 20 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil
2 tbsp - Vanilla extract, Time: 2880 min, Type: Flavor, Use: Secondary

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 81%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 54 - 77 F
Fermentation Temp: 68 F
Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)
Additional Yeast: Lactobacillus Blend OYL-605

PRIMING:
CO2 Level: 0 Volumes

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: 31514
Ca2: 67
Mg2: 9
Na: 13
Cl: 125
SO4: 41
HCO3: 16
Water Notes:

NOTES:
7/21/2021 - Haven't brewed yet. Recipe is complete and will be brewing 7/29/2021.

This recipe has been published online at:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1170100/pratt-brewing-apple-pie-ala-mode-sour
Generated by Brewer's Friend - Brewer's Friend | Homebrew Beer Recipes, Calculators & Forum
Date: 2021-07-21 21:43 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2021-07-21 21:43 UTC

 

[Beernik]

Is that 3lbs of chopped apples or juice or purée?

 

[Rob2010SS]

Is that 3lbs of chopped apples or juice or purée?

Chopped apples. We’ll see how it goes. I’ve heard that people have good luck with that method.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Update

This beer came out pretty solid! A couple of thoughts on it...

- Spices could be increased a bit. While they're there in the taste, they are very subtle. I'm thinking like a 5-10% increase, but that's hard to measure with tsp and tbsp. So maybe weigh them out in grams next time.
- We did 3 tbsp of Beanilla vanilla extract. Next time, would do 4 to increase the "a la mode" aspect.
- The one thing this is missing is the bready/crust like flavor. Not really getting that at all. Maybe grahams in the fermenter or granola or something along those lines?
- With how it came out, I think it'd be more spot on to call it "Spiced Apple Sour Ale" as opposed to apple pie a la mode sour. I think that's more accurate based on the flavors that came out.

I've never brewed with apples before, but I think this is interesting and worth pointing out for others who are interested in brewing with them. Usually, with fruit, at least in my experience, the fruit chunks stay behind and are still there at the end, after the beer is removed from the fermenter. With these apples, they definitely got broken down into the beer! I put 4.25lbs of chopped granny smiths in here and below is all that was left in the fermenter! Also below was when I added them to the fermenter. The container you see in that picture was full and there was even a second container! Is that due to the pectic enzyme added to the beer?

Picture of the finished beer below as well. This one does have pretty poor head retention as well. Need to work on that one as well.