Apple Bee (Woodchuck Clone)

[jacksonbrown]

I forget which is the good one, pasteurized or not?

 

[jayhuff]

I use the pasteurized... I just make sure it is "not from concentrate" and only has apple juice and ascorbic acid as the ingredients.

 

[jacksonbrown]

I just cooked this up yesterday and it tastes really, really good. I pitched Wyeast 4766 Cider yeast about 14 hours ago and haven't seen any activity yet. Not worried, just wondering how long, and what type of activity I should expect from a cider.

 

[Aleforge]

It takes awhile, mine took a full 24 hours. Also with ciders the krausen seems to be super laid back.

 

[Aleforge]

Oh crap, did anyone remember to "boil" the wort after the sparging? I completely forgot to bring the temp up after doing so and now paranoid as crap my batch is going to turn south any day now!

Will 165'F water kill off anything or is it not hot enough?

 

[jacksonbrown]

I don't know how "safe" it is, but I did bring it up to a short 10 min boil myself. It's finally starting to show the slightest signs of fermentation (40 hrs after pitch).

 

[flylock_jac]

Read this thread a dozen times and my mouth waters ... so I took the plunge.
Here's my modified version that went into my primary about 2 hours ago.

3 gallons apple juice
1 can concentrate A.J.
8 oz crystal 77L
1# exrta lite DME
1 cup light brown sugar (no scale)
used Ale yeast because I had it in hand.
O.G. 1.062

let the waiting begin.

 

[Aleforge]

I also tossed in a can of concentrate to not only raise the OG a tad but also hopefully help pull the apple flavor through better. I did notice my batch is VERY dark, too dark at this point. However I tasted the wort before I tossed her in the basement and the roasted / toasty malt faintly came through and gave it some nice complexity.

So far its going great down there, Krausen is about 3 inches thick and bubbling along. I am still crossing my fingers that I wont have an infection from the non-boiling.

 

[flyweed]

Jay...just an update. Itll be week 4 for my 5 gallon batch of this on March 15..it is turning out beautifully. Airlock activity subsided a couple weeks ago. Can't wait to taste it again. I think at 4 weeks, I am going to rack it off any lee's and let it bulk age a few more weeks then keg and force carb.

flylock...why did you use Crystal 77? Just curious..that's going to be very dark and caramely. The Crystal 10L is where you get alot of your sugars from. However, I do believe they both have the same potential gravity of 1.033 - 1.035 if I remember correctly.

Aleforge..with the chocolate malt it WILL remain very dark...it won't be a light amber type of cider at all. I will take photos of mine when I rack to secondary for some bulk aging.

Dan

 

[flylock_jac]

flylock...why did you use Crystal 77? Just curious..that's going to be very dark and caramely. The Crystal 10L is where you get alot of your sugars from. However, I do believe they both have the same potential gravity of 1.033 - 1.035 if I remember correctly.



Dan

I went with the crystal 77 and 1 cup brown sugar hoping for a caramel taste along with the apple.
Was hoping it would taste like an old fashion caramel apple. I have apple concentrate and apple extract that I can use to balance it if needed.

 

[Aleforge]

A few things I would like to bring up, first off I sparged the grains in 1qt a water as suggested. I didn't give much thought to how much water it was until I measured it out.

http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cidersteep.jpg

As you can see it barely comes up the bag.

And lastly I was talking about color, not that it really matters to me, but I thought maybe my batch was a little too dark so I wanted to compare.

http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cidercarboy.jpg

Anyways its still fermenting like mad and is looking great!

NOTE: The images are not showing up for me, although when I "Edit" the message they do, can anyone else see them? (adding direct links for now)

 

[jacksonbrown]

Hm, mine is a very dirt-like brown. Pretty light in color. But as far as fermentation is going, I have no krausen to speak of. I had noticeable airlock activity for one full day, but I can still see it working. Just watching it I can see everything inside still swirling around. That might be due to my using a cider yeast as opposed to wheat yeast.

 

[jayhuff]

A few comments.... I didn't boil after sparging- even when I mashed and everything turns out great. The chocolate malt turns this a brown to dark brown color for sure- nothing light colored about this brew.

flyweed... I am looking forward to your comments. I am brewing up another batch of this stuff this weekend! This is somewhat like cider in that the longer you wait, the greater the reward. I just like it so much it doesn't get much time to age once bottled. That is why I think for me, bulk aging is best

 

[flyweed]

LOL.....yeah, I can't wait to rack it..just so I can taste it again.

Also, I did not bring my water to a boil either..for the steep or sparge process. I had very very limited kreusen as well.

Mine is very dark...almost coffee dark.

Dan

 

[flyweed]

update:

I racked mine into a seconday carboy last night. Gravity reading at 70F was 1.010

Taste: some alcohol burn, very sour apple taste...with a dark chocolate overtone. not much for residual sweetness. It's funny my apfelwein recipe which I backsweetened to 1.013 tastes really sweet, and this one is sitting just under that at 1.010 and really doesn't taste sweet at all.

I am going to age for a month..then keg and carbonate and see where we are at now.

Dan

 

[Aleforge]

I wonder why yours came out so different then Jays? Maybe the juice?

 

[jayhuff]

No worries flyweed... a bit more conditioning and the alcohol burn will fade and the other flavors will blend and mellow. One note, this isn't a very sweet brew- it has that Granny Smith apple sour, but with the malt it is a nice complex drink.

I didn't get a chance to brew this past weekend, so hopefully I'll get a batch going this week.

 

[Aleforge]

Mines looking great right now, very eager to try it out. If you want Jay feel free to ship me some samples, I will PM you my address.

 

[Zul'jin]

Mine is hazy and apple flesh colored. Had to use Simply Apple brand juice when I went to secondary because the store was out of Tree Top.

No harsh alcohol taste at 12+% abv.

It tastes like a thick light amber beer with apples, if you can imagine. Several people have drank it. They all love it.

 

[flyweed]

I wonder why yours came out so different then Jays? Maybe the juice?

Do you mean me? Mine isn't so different. his FG was 1.006 and mine was 1.010 only a couple points difference....my gravity was taken at 70F...so if he was cooler or warmer, it would give a different reading as well. I think mine still has just a bit to go...I'll take another gravity reading in a couple weeks and see where we are at.

Otherwise mine sounds exactly like Jay's.

Dan

 

[Aleforge]

Do you mean me? Mine isn't so different. his FG was 1.006 and mine was 1.010 only a couple points difference....my gravity was taken at 70F...so if he was cooler or warmer, it would give a different reading as well. I think mine still has just a bit to go...I'll take another gravity reading in a couple weeks and see where we are at.

Otherwise mine sounds exactly like Jay's.

Dan

Well I was talking about end result, he said his tasted like Woodchuck. I don't remember woodchuck having the same properties as you listed. It defiantly has nothing in the way of alcohol burn. I also would say its fairly sweet even the 302 (amber dry version). But then Jay mentioned it needs to age to smooth itself out so maybe that's why.

Please let me know how it tastes after it ages, I followed his recipe spot on also but have not bottled yet!

 

[GroosBrewz]

Hey guys,

This brew has been bottled for almost three weeks.. I brewed on Jan 29 and bottled on the last day of february. I cracked one the other night, and both my wife and I tasted it.. I am not sure what I expected, but I must confess I did not really enjoy that first one and neither did she.. It's got a weird kind of "smoky" type flavor which I cant place. It also still kinda smells a little like rhino farts.. It clears up quickly but you can definitely smell when pouring. Doesnt taste like rhino farts, so thats a good thing. So, not trying to be a downer, just giving my .02..

For those who care, I followed the original recipe to the letter, but did not get an OG (I spaced it totally. I am a bonehead..)So I didn't mess with taking a FG either.

Now, I will say that neither my wife or I had ever tried or even heard of woodchuck before the OP here.. So I have no basis for comparison.. And, we tried it warm.. I have some in the fridge now that I am gonna crack tonight and give it another whirl. If I still dont like it, I will wait a few more weeks and try another.. Here's to hoping it grows on me!

 

[flyweed]

Well..the reason I made this batch was because of the talk that it tasted like Woodchuck Granny Smith Cider. I would say that the sour apple/green apple taste of it would qualify to say that..but the comparisons stop at that point. It is indeed a darker, heavier drink..which I expected from the malts involved. I do drink a ton of Wood chuck ciders, and I don't think this one can be compared to it. Woodchuck is light, clean and crisp and sweet. This drink is crisp, not sweet, with very complex flavors and fairly full bodied.

Like I said, I am bulk aging it now, and am going to try it in a couple weeks and see where we are at. Then I may backsweeten a bit, and force carb and see what happens from there.
Dan

 

[Aleforge]

Hey guys,

This brew has been bottled for almost three weeks.. I brewed on Jan 29 and bottled on the last day of february. I cracked one the other night, and both my wife and I tasted it.. I am not sure what I expected, but I must confess I did not really enjoy that first one and neither did she.. It's got a weird kind of "smoky" type flavor which I cant place. It also still kinda smells a little like rhino farts.. It clears up quickly but you can definitely smell when pouring. Doesnt taste like rhino farts, so thats a good thing. So, not trying to be a downer, just giving my .02..

For those who care, I followed the original recipe to the letter, but did not get an OG (I spaced it totally. I am a bonehead..)So I didn't mess with taking a FG either.

Now, I will say that neither my wife or I had ever tried or even heard of woodchuck before the OP here.. So I have no basis for comparison.. And, we tried it warm.. I have some in the fridge now that I am gonna crack tonight and give it another whirl. If I still dont like it, I will wait a few more weeks and try another.. Here's to hoping it grows on me!

The Smokey flavor must of came from the chocolate malts, and I am guessing the Rhino Farts smell came from it not being left to age long enough in the primary / secondary. I have made a few ciders before and learned to never bottle until I smell absolutely no sulfur in the odor.

But anyways I mentioned earlier that Flyweed must of made his slightly different because his sounds so different then what woodchuck tastes like.

I buy Woodchuck and Hornsbys every other week, my wife goes ape-**** over the stuff. I happen to like it myself, so I was hoping to nail a clone of the granny smith version. This sounds like it might be a very good and interesting drink, although Jay swears the final result is a clone. So I am still holding on to some hope.

 

[Freezeblade]

But anyways I mentioned earlier that Flyweed must of made his slightly different because his sounds so different then what woodchuck tastes like.

I buy Woodchuck and Hornsbys every other week, my wife goes ape-**** over the stuff. I happen to like it myself, so I was hoping to nail a clone of the granny smith version. This sounds like it might be a very good and interesting drink, although Jay swears the final result is a clone. So I am still holding on to some hope.

According to the Woodchuck Site, the granny smith cider is (not surprisingly) made from only granny smith apples. Now that said, I don't see how you can "clone" a cider, which is made from only one variety of apple, by using sugars not originating from an apple at all, but from malt, which contains much more complex sugars and flavors (especally chocolate malt). There has been much discussion around here about the difficulty of cloning a certain brand of cider, because the variety of apples used for the juice is so very important. Not to say this recipe won't taste good, just saying IMHO it will most probably taste nothing like woodchuck granny smith.

 

[flylock_jac]

Update on my batch.
Fermentation has slowed way down ,almost to a stop .
Decided I'd take a hydro reading and see where I was at.
The first thing I noticed when I uncovered it was how much lighter the color was. Pulled off a sample for my reading and it smelled so good I pulled a glass full at the same time.
Stuff taste fantastic and it still needs to drop a couple more points.
It's at 1.010 now ,so I'll give it another week ,but in my opinion it already taste better than woodchuck.
I was surprised that I got no caramel taste from the crystal 77 ,just a nice mild sweetness.
If it finishes and tastes as good as it does now , it will be a constant in my brewing rotation.
Thanks again for a great recipe.

 

[flyweed]

Holy crap..that's light. Did you use any "chocolate malt" in your brew at all???? Mine is much darker than the above photos.

Dan

 

[jtbarclay]

Hi after reading this thread I decided to register here.

I currently have a 4 gallon batch of cider going in a 5 gal bucket. I've been posting updates on my personal blog. The only reason I stuck to 4 gallons was because I only had enough cash on hand to buy 4 gallons of juice, oops...

I didn't follow any fancy recipe's so I hope to take a few hints from here when I start a new batch. I started with 1 smack pack of Wyeast 4677 and 4 gallons of Indian Summer Cider, which is just unfiltered pasteurized apple juice, nothing else added. It's been going for a little over 96 hours now.

I noticed a lot of talk of the "rhino farts" the sulphur is produced by the apples and should go away after a couple of weeks, or so I've been told. A friend recommended I rack the cider and do a secondary fermentation for at least twice the amount of time it took for my primary to stop bubbling. This way it will be drinkable at bottling time, but I also plan to try to carb some of them. Going to split up the batch and carb some using sugar and some using pomegranate juice, and leave some flat.

Looks like a good community here I'll be sure to post an update on my cider later.

 

[flylock_jac]

no chocolate ,just the crystal 77 and 1 pound of extra light DME, next time I'll use the crystal 10. I got no caramel flavor from the 77 . I checked again tonight and it's stabilized at 1.08
and the taste has really mellowed since my last post. Did 2 glasses tonight ,uncarbed with 10 minutes in the freezer and it was mighty tasty . Gonna give 1 more week to settle and clear and then bottle it.
Started out at just over 3 1/2 gallons , probably 3 gallons now.

 

[Aleforge]

no chocolate ,just the crystal 77 and 1 pound of extra light DME, next time I'll use the crystal 10. I got no caramel flavor from the 77 . I checked again tonight and it's stabilized at 1.08
and the taste has really mellowed since my last post. Did 2 glasses tonight ,uncarbed with 10 minutes in the freezer and it was mighty tasty . Gonna give 1 more week to settle and clear and then bottle it.
Started out at just over 3 1/2 gallons , probably 3 gallons now.

Well no matter its outcome it sounds like this is going to be a very tasty recipe. Did your krausen ever fall? Mine has been going for a month and has never fallen.