Anyone try the double sunshine clone recipe from BYO?

[TrickyDick]

I have some brew time next week, and am planning to do three brews. Would like to try doing three IPA recipes from the BYO Vermont cult clone issue: Heady Topper, Double Sunshine, and Abner.

I have acquired all the ingredients for the recipes posted in the magazine.

There is a rather lengthy thread about cloning the heady topper, with some references to the magazine article. The are no threads I could find about double sunshine, except for people wanting to trade.

I've never had any of those three beers before. Always like brewing IPAs because of all the hops of course.
For any who have tasted the commercial versions, and have brewed these clone recipes, I thought would start a thread so we can share comments about the DS and maybe the abner recipe as well. HT already has a lengthy thread, so would like to avoid any HT specific commentary unless relevant to the other two.

Thanks in advance

TD


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[Munchman]

I have that clone on tap right now. Fantastic. So good that I just ordered more Citra hops to make it again. My favorite DIPA I've made in 3 yrs brewing, but I am a big fan of Citra. It's super drinkable and has a great tropical / citrus flavor while being at like 8%. Dangerous really


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[TrickyDick]

How did you handle the late addition hops?

Did you brew as per the published recipe or any tweaks?

Good to know its a winner.

TD


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[Braufessor]

I have this one on my "short list" to brew also. I brewed the HBT Heady clone a week or so ago. I decanted a bit of my Vermont Ale Yeast starter off before pitching and built up a new starter with it. Thinking about brewing the Double Sunshine Clone, and using the Vermont Ale Yeast in that. I have a crap-load of Citra and figured this would be a cool beer to brew with it. Hoping to get it brewed over Easter weekend.

 

[Munchman]

I pretty much followed the recipe closely. Finding the carapilsen malt (it's belgian btw) was the toughest part as my online place didn't have it. But I found it at my LHBS luckily. Not sure it would have made a huge difference anyway. For the knockout hops I actually did the whirlpool for 30 minutes for the hop stand that they recommended. I have a recirc arm on my immersion chiller and a pump that I used to do it. Pitched a decent starter of yeast - probably 2.5 L and got the beer from 1.074 to 1.012. I don't usually, but I even did the secondary they recommend for dry hopping after dropping the yeast with a temp drop to 55. Also left the dry hops at that cold temp - another thing i don't normally do.

It came out so great, I wouldn't change a thing. Although this time I happen to have the 1272 American Ale II yeast and last time I used 1056. It'll be interesting to see the differences.

 

[TrickyDick]

I'm probably going to dry hop in the primary.

Going to use Gigayeast Vermont IPA strain for these brews. I couldn't track down any Conan, but I'm sure this yeast will work fine. Finding all the specialty malts was indeed difficult.

Glad to hear the positive comments on the recipe.

I'm half tempted to do some split batches and mess around with dry hop combos, or possibly fermenting some with Brett Trois primary fermentation.

TD


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[Malty_Dog]

I think this will be the next IPA I do. I have 2 jars of washed Conan and I love Citra! I did make the Heady clone as per that BYO issue and it was pretty great.

 

[Munchman]

Yeah I want to get that Gigayeast and make the Heady Clone as well.

 

[TrickyDick]

That's my plan for next Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday (HT,DS,Abner clones).

Will see if the weather holds out.

TD

 

[TrickyDick]

I did all three last week: Heady topper ( though used a different recipe from this forum ), double sunshine, and abner. I split the abner in two, and fermenting half with Brett Trois. For better or worse, I did long hop stand for pretty much all of three using half the 0 minute hops at flameout then rapidly chilling to below 170, then adding the remaining hops and let it all recirculate in the boil kettle for a good 30 minutes before chilling to below 80. All in all it was a good hour in the kettle from flameout until I drained kettle. Used the GigaYeast Vermont IPA strain. I think I'm going to skip all the finings and just cold crash to remove the yeast. Maybe I'll read up on this strain and see what works for people. It's going to be a very hoppy summer, that's for sure..
TD


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[atom]

recipe?

 

[TrickyDick]

There is a heady topper can you clone it thread that has the current best clone on page one of the thread. It is a long thread, but the gist is that the recipe over there is closer than then BYO recipe. They are pretty darn close to each other.

The other two are in a BYO issue from last fall. The cover photo has a couple apples with airlocks in them because there are some cider articles in that issue. I forgot which months that issue was.

All three recipes are actually pretty similar since they are all the same style and all.

TD


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[Malty_Dog]

Sounds like some serious brewing. Post back how they turned out if you get a chance!

 

[TrickyDick]

Will do. Hoping to post a nice pic of all three lined up.

Would love to try the real versions for a taste comparison. If anybody has access to these I'd be willing to trade for some.

TD


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[TrickyDick]

Took a hydro sample today (day #10) and added dry hops. Gonna split into two doses for 5 days each, instead of one dose.

Ended up with about 78% apparent attenuation and its sitting at 7.8% ABV, 1.015FG. Might drop a point or so, but will see. Missed the target OG by a couple points. This stuff is pretty amazing from the hydro flask. Aroma is through the roof and the flavor is reminiscent of pink grapefruit juice and maybe a hint of apricot in the background. Can't wait to pour my first chilled and carbed glass of this stuff.

TD

 

[TrickyDick]

The Abner clone I did from the same issue I split into two buckets, one with Conan, the other with Brett Trois (no oxygen). Day ten the taste and aroma of the Brett was really really nice. Took it down to 1.011. I think the OG was a 1.076. Supposed to rack the HT clone today, and the DS clone tomorrow with second dose of dry hops. Of the three, flavor wise, I prefer the DS, but it's just a hydro sample, and that's before any dry hopping.

TD


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[Teromous]

There is a heady topper can you clone it thread that has the current best clone on page one of the thread. It is a long thread, but the gist is that the recipe over there is closer than then BYO recipe. They are pretty darn close to each other.

The other two are in a BYO issue from last fall. The cover photo has a couple apples with airlocks in them because there are some cider articles in that issue. I forgot which months that issue was.

All three recipes are actually pretty similar since they are all the same style and all.

TD


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BYO October 2013

I was just browsing through that magazine again haha.

 

[RmikeVT]

Subscribed!!!

I brewed the 12g of the Double Sunshine Clone on 5/3. I pitched 1.5 packs of rehydrated US-05 in one and A pack of S-04 w. the remaining .5 pack of US-05 in the other.

Gotta love S-04 in 10 days it dropped the beer from 1.075 - 1.014 and has completely cleared. The US-05 beer hasn't even come close to follocing out.

I am dry hopping tonight. As with you guys, I can't wait to get this beer in the keg and carbed up.

 

[TrickyDick]

I deviated a bit from the published recipe with the dry hops. Same total amount, but just split in two with two doses. Dose one in the primary. I left them dwell for five days then racked off the dry hops. I suspect 6 days may have been better because they had not dropped yet. If you can cold crash yours I highly recommend doing so prior to racking. I rack right into kegs. Hope that wasn't a mistake with plenty of sediment, and suspended yeast still in there. Ran out of time before heading to work. I'll add the dry hops dose # 2 when I get home from work. Took a tiny sip and it is tasting really really good. Can't wait to try a chilled and carbed glass after dose two of dry hops.

TD




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[TrickyDick]

So all three are ready to drink (except the half of the Abner recipe I added Brett to).

Impression is that I prefer the Abner the best. However, I used a more intense boil with that one, and its more bitter than the others. In fact, I bought some of that iso-alpha stuff to add to others to correct for the sub-par boil intensity and bitterness that resulted. Really need a larger Brewpot. All taste great, and the yeast is super hazy. The Heady clone uses that Pearl Malt and its also lending its own haze.

TD

 

[TrickyDick]

Here they are.


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[berley31]

I brewed the Double Sunshine recipe from BYO last week; I'm doing a write-up on the brew day for my blog. Hopefully it'll be posted soon, maybe by the end of this week.

Just thought I'd mention, for those of you who are (rightfully) skeptical of a lot of BYO clone recipes... I emailed Sean Lawson and asked his opinion on it, and he said all the VT recipes in that issue WERE actually in collaboration with the brewers, so that it was "the best approximation" he could offer for a homebrew clone.

 

[Braufessor]

I think I will be brewing the double sunshine clone this weekend. I have been fortunate to get my hands on some of the vermont beers over the past months. I have tried the Heady clone (great beer - best IPA I have made.)

The one thing that I wonder about is hop quality. I wonder if that is not an "insurmountable" obstacle to attempting to clone these beers. I had a Double Sunshine a couple weeks ago. Let me say this - it was, without question, the best beer I have ever had. Many, many beers are overhyped. This one was not. Simply a great, great beer. Crisp, amazingly hoppy, but not heavy or over powering. Not at all like most..... any.... citra beers I have had. I have found "homebrew" citra hops to be hit and miss with onion/garlic flavors. Still nice hops - but there was NONE of that in Double Sunshine. It was all citrus, and bright.

I assume that breweries like Lawson's, Alchemist, and others get some seriously prime hops. I assume, we (homebrewers) do not get those hops. When attempting to clone these hop-dominated beers..... especially with limited/proprietary hops...... how likely is it we even have a chance simply due to the quality of hops at our disposal?

Just a thought..... and I am still taking a shot at this in the next few days

 

[Braufessor]

Brewed this up today. Pretty much followed the BYO recipe exactly, other than some "scaling" to 6.5 gallons. All went well, and it was a beautifully clear, gold/orange in the hydrometer. Hopefully it comes out nicely.

 

[berley31]

Ok, brewed the beer a couple of weeks ago, and racked to a keg and dry-hopped it two days ago. Posted my brew day notes on my blog:

http://meekbrewingco.blogspot.ca/2014/06/brewing-lawsons-finest-liquids-double.html

Hopefully it comes out nice; I'll be posting the tasting notes sometime relatively soon.

 

[Braufessor]

Well.... This beer is now 3.5 weeks from brew day and the keg is definitely more than half gone.

I have had one bottle of Double Sunshine and I really feel it might be the best beer I have ever had. I really liked it. It was so clean and yet loaded with hops.

My clone attempt was certainly not Double Sunshine.... of course, what is? But, it was easily the best IPA I have ever brewed. It is really a great beer. I think it reminds me more of Zombie Dust or Pseudo Sue personally.

In comparison to Double Sunshine
* Mine is Cloudy
* I think mine is sort of "fuller/sweeter"

Here is what I did for water - I think this matters. I am rebrewing this in the next day or two and may push the sulfate up a bit more (275 maybe).

90 % RO water, 10 % tap water.
Calcium 113
Sulfate 225
Chloride 30
Bicarbonate 40
Mash pH 5.3

Overall, this is just a great beer. I see this one making it into regular rotation for sure.

 

[TrickyDick]

I ended up ramping my total hardness up to like 900 in the keg after brewing and after seeing the brew log hardness leak. This really is a great homebrew recipe. I've not had the real deal before, but would like to try someday.


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[berley31]

I finally got around to posting my tasting notes for my clone attempt:

http://meekbrewingco.blogspot.ca/2014/07/tasting-good-day-sunshine-lawsons.html

I really liked it, very tasty. Never had the real thing, though. I feel like this beer could have been hoppier... my hops could definitely have been fresher, but I also prefer a simpler malt bill for DIPAs.

 

[LJvermonster]

Can someone post the recipe here? I would love to try this!

Thanks!

 

[Braufessor]

I have brewed it twice.... about half way through the 2nd keg right now. Very good beer. Here is a "cut and paste" (from a different post) of the recipe I brewed the first time around..... I think it is basically exactly (or close to the BYO recipe) The carapils should have been 8 ounces, but I was short a bit, that is why there is a couple ounces of caramalt in there:

**I brewed this as about a 6.25 gallon batch, so it was a "smaller version as a finished product" - but the recipe itself, as below, was for 5 gallons..... which would give you a bigger, hoppier beer.


Double sunshine
Style: American IPA
Type: Calories: 199
Rating: 0.0 Boil Size: 8.0 Gal
IBU's: 74.07 Batch Size: 6.50 Gal
Color: 5.8 SRM Boil Time: 60 minutes


Brew Date: - 06/06/2014
OG: 1.061
FG: 1.013
ABV: 6.13 %
Efficiency: 85 %


Fermentation Steps
Days / Temp
Primary 12 days @ 64.0°F

Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
9.00 lbs 65.66 % Rahr 2-Row 60 mins 1.035
2.00 lbs 14.59 % Weyermann Vienna Malt 60 mins 1.038
0.50 lbs 3.65 % Oats, Flaked 60 mins 1.037
6.30 ozs 2.87 % Briess Carapils 60 mins 1.034
8.00 ozs 3.65 % Caramunich Malt 60 mins 1.033
1.00 lbs 7.30 % Corn Sugar (Dextrose) 60 mins 1.046
2.00 ozs 0.91 % Fawcett Caramalt 60 mins 1.034
3.00 ozs 1.37 % Acid Malt 60 mins 1.027

Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
1.00 ozs 34.69 Columbus (Tomahawk) 60 mins 14.00
1.00 ozs 19.81 Citra 20 mins 13.20
3.00 ozs 19.57 Citra 5 mins 13.20
3.00 ozs 0.00 Citra 0 mins 13.20
3.00 ozs Citra 4 days 13.20

Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1.0 pkg American Ale starter Wyeast Labs 1056

Additions
Amount Name
7.50 g Gypsum
1.00 g Calcium Chloride
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient 15 mins Boil
1.00 tbsp Irish Moss 15 mins Boil

Mash Profile
Medium Body Infusion In 60 min @ 152.0°F
Add 15.88 qt ( 1.25 qt/lb ) water @ 166.0°F

Carbonation
Force

Notes
90 % RO water, 10 % tap water.
Calcium 113
Sulfate 225
Chloride 30
Bicarbonate 40
Mash pH 5.3

Flameout hops..... Added after chilling started. Probably below 180. Finished chill to 60 degrees and let it sit 30 minutes or more to settle before transferring to fermenter.

Fermented about 12-14 days. Dry hop was 3-4 days. Kegged, carbed. Tasting quite good on day 16. This keg will never see 4 weeks old.....

Here is another thread on a different site for Double Sunshine.... has the photo of the all grain recipe. The first posting of the extract recipe is wrong.... the correct one is posted on page 2.
http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/lawsons-double-sunshine-clone-recipe.23638/

 

[LJvermonster]

Is this beer 6.3% because you're batch size was bigger with the same amount of ingredients? I know the actual beer is 8% ABV.

 

[Braufessor]

Is this beer 6.3% because you're batch size was bigger with the same amount of ingredients? I know the actual beer is 8% ABV.

Yes - I used the amt. of grain to make 5 gallons, but made a 6.25 (ish) gallon batch with it...... Probably just check out the photo on page 1 of the link I put in there.... that is the actual BYO article/recipe.

 

[LJvermonster]

For those who brewed this is recommends transferring to a secondary. Did anyone try it leaving everything in the primary?

 

[Braufessor]

For those who brewed this is recommends transferring to a secondary. Did anyone try it leaving everything in the primary?

I did all primary. went about 12 days or so ferment and then put dry hops in for 4 days, cold crashed the 4th day, transferred to Keg. I have SS Brew Bucket, so it does a pretty decent job of dropping most of the hop particle into the cone shaped bottom. I may try the next batch with a move to a secondary at the time of dry hopping.

 

[BreezyBrew]

I have found "homebrew" citra hops to be hit and miss with onion/garlic flavors. Still nice hops - but there was NONE of that in Double Sunshine. It was all citrus, and bright.

First of all, thanks for all of your excellent information! It definitely makes me want to brew this soon!

As for the onion/garlic flavors and Citra hops.... I definitely have gotten this and thought it was something with my process. What do you think this is from?
That's definitely a concern of mine considering that boatload of citra.

 

[Braufessor]

I am on my third 1 lb bag this year - so far, they have all been quite good. I had a bag last year that I was not real fond of. I basically get all my hops from LHBS or other sources - but always HopUnion, nitrogen flushed 1lb bags.
As far as what it is from..... hops are living things - can't always control them the way we would like I suppose. Growing conditions, too wet, too dry, too hot, too cold, harvesting too early, too late, handling..... hard to say for sure.
Like I said though - all 3 pounds I have used so far this year have been nice.

 

[Braufessor]

Now that I have some time - here is the BYO clone recipe as presented in October 2013 Issue:

OG = 1.074
FG = 1.013
IBU = 100+
SRM = 6
ABV = 8%

FOR 5 GALLON BATCH

9.5lbs 2 row
2.5lbs Vienna
1lb Flaked Oats
12 ounces Carapils
6 ounces Caramunich
1lb Corn Sugar (10 minutes left in boil)

60 min. = .75 oz. Columbus
20 min. = 1 oz. Citra
5 min. = 3 oz. Citra
Flameout = 3 oz. Citra - whirlpool and let sit for 30 minutes in hot wort before chilling all the way down.
Dry hop = 3 oz. Citra - suggests that at 7-10 days to cool beer down to 55 degrees and dump yeast/secondary vessel. Add dry hops for 4-7 days at 55-57 degrees.

1056 or US05 Yeast

Mash @ 152 for 45 minute, then raise to mash out temps.

Extract - 6.6lbs light liquid malt extract instead of 2 row. Minimash all the other grains as listed. use 1.5lbs corn sugar instead of 1lb. The rest the same.

 

[BreezyBrew]

Now that I have some time - here is the BYO clone recipe as presented in October 2013 Issue:

OG = 1.074
FG = 1.013
IBU = 100+
SRM = 6
ABV = 8%

FOR 5 GALLON BATCH

9.5lbs 2 row
2.5lbs Vienna
1lb Flaked Oats
12 ounces Carapils
6 ounces Caramunich
1lb Corn Sugar (10 minutes left in boil)

60 min. = .75 oz. Columbus
20 min. = 1 oz. Citra
5 min. = 3 oz. Citra
Flameout = 3 oz. Citra - whirlpool and let sit for 30 minutes in hot wort before chilling all the way down.
Dry hop = 3 oz. Citra - suggests that at 7-10 days to cool beer down to 55 degrees and dump yeast/secondary vessel. Add dry hops for 4-7 days at 55-57 degrees.

1056 or US05 Yeast

Mash @ 152 for 45 minute, then raise to mash out temps.

Extract - 6.6lbs light liquid malt extract instead of 2 row. Minimash all the other grains as listed. use 1.5lbs corn sugar instead of 1lb. The rest the same.

I'm assuming the hops are all Pellets?

 

[Braufessor]

I'm assuming the hops are all Pellets?

I guess it does not really say - but that is what I use, and that many leaf hops would probably cost you about a gallon of beer

 

[BreezyBrew]

Now that I have some time - here is the BYO clone recipe as presented in October 2013 Issue:

OG = 1.074
FG = 1.013
IBU = 100+
SRM = 6
ABV = 8%

FOR 5 GALLON BATCH

9.5lbs 2 row
2.5lbs Vienna
1lb Flaked Oats
12 ounces Carapils
6 ounces Caramunich
1lb Corn Sugar (10 minutes left in boil)

60 min. = .75 oz. Columbus
20 min. = 1 oz. Citra
5 min. = 3 oz. Citra
Flameout = 3 oz. Citra - whirlpool and let sit for 30 minutes in hot wort before chilling all the way down.
Dry hop = 3 oz. Citra - suggests that at 7-10 days to cool beer down to 55 degrees and dump yeast/secondary vessel. Add dry hops for 4-7 days at 55-57 degrees.

1056 or US05 Yeast

Mash @ 152 for 45 minute, then raise to mash out temps.

Extract - 6.6lbs light liquid malt extract instead of 2 row. Minimash all the other grains as listed. use 1.5lbs corn sugar instead of 1lb. The rest the same.

I'm assuming the hops are all Pellets?