Anyone know the DME equivalent for 2-row?

[damiongrimm]

I want to convert an AG IPA recipe to extract, but can’t seem to find a solid answer as to which grains/extracts are interchangeable. The recipe is calling for 2-row, and I was planning to use either Muntons Light or Breiss Golden DME as a substitution (with a .6/lb conversion of course). Which of these 2 would be the closest equivalent in flavor and SRM to 2-row?

 

[chickypad]

Though I doubt you'll be able to tell the difference, the 2 row called for in the recipe is presumably domestic 2-row so Briess would be the extract made from domestic malt. Muntons uses English malt. They are about the same lovibond (Briess listed at 4, Munton's light as 3-5L).

 

[IslandLizard]

2-row is the most basic brewers malt, lightly kilned to 1.5-2.0°L. Only Pilsner malt is lighter. Pale Malt is slightly darker at 3-4°L, typically.

Briess 2-row ("Brewers Malt") is 1.8°L.
Briess Golden Light DME is 4°SRM (=3.5°L), so about twice as dark. It contains 1% Carapils.

If you want your color to be as light as possible and you can buy it, use Pilsen Light DME.
But I wouldn't pay premium price or special order it. The difference won't be that significant, and disappears completely if the recipe contains a load of Crystal, Victory, etc.

After brewing, extract brews tend to be a little darker than their all-grain "equivalents" for some reason.
You should only boil with half your extract and add the balance at flameout. This keeps your wort lighter and better tasting too.

Though I doubt you'll be able to tell the difference, the 2 row called for in the recipe is presumably domestic 2-row so Briess would be the extract made from domestic malt. Muntons uses English malt. They are about the same lovibond (Briess listed at 4, Munton's light as 3-5L).

Exactly! There's a perceivable difference in flavor between Muntons and Briess because of the malt origin. I wouldn't sweat it, either will be fine. Again I wouldn't pay a dime extra for Muntons in an American IPA.

 

[IslandLizard]

Feel free to post the original recipe and your extract conversion of it for feedback.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Which of these 2 would be the closest equivalent in flavor and SRM to 2-row?

Briess provides information on their DME/LME products at their web site. This link will get you to a quick summary and a link to the data sheets. http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Extracts.htm If you continue to brew extract based recipes, there is good information at this site. Muntons may provide similar information.

Which of these 2 would be the closest equivalent in flavor and SRM to 2-row? I want to convert an AG IPA recipe to extract, but can’t seem to find a solid answer as to which grains/extracts are interchangeable.

The products are not 100% interchangable, but there are commonly suggested substitution guidelines for a good initial recipe conversion.

For the DME/LME products that are made using a single base malt, the substitution process is generally as you described. Munich (and Wheat) DME/LME is often a combination of base malt and Munich (or Wheat) malt - so the substitution requires a some simple math. For Briess DME/LME, Amber, Porter, and Dark DME/LME look like products to make darker beers (amber ale, ...) without requiring a lot of additional specialty grains.

When converting all-grain recipes to DME/LME, color is likely to be different. Here are some observations that I have collected over the years:

• https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=29885.msg392903#msg392903 (with DME/LME, "... for a fixed volume, the color goes up with gravity.").
  
• http://menuinprogress.com/2007/08/on-importance-of-late-extract-addition.html (good photos showing how recipe changes will impact color changes).
• http://blog.brewingwithbriess.com/secrets-to-keeping-your-liquid-extracts-fresh/ (photos of how much LME darkens as it ages).

Adding half of the DME/LME at the start of the boil and half late in the boil is good advice (some people will suggest adding 25% at the start and the rest towards the end of the boil). This will require adjusting the amount of bittering hops in the recipe. I have found that shorter boil times also result in a slightly lighter color - again, the amount of bittering hops will need to be adjusted in the recipe.

 

[IslandLizard]

Good stuff on extracts, recipe conversions to extracts, and better extract brewing in general! ^

some people will suggest adding 25% [of LME/DME] at the start

That's especially true for extract brewers doing partial boils. Such as boiling only 3 gallons and top up later in the fermentor to 5 gallons. Otherwise they'd be all brewing some form of Scottish ale.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

That's especially true for extract brewers doing partial boils. Such as boiling only 3 gallons and top up later in the fermentor to 5 gallons. Otherwise they'd be all brewing some form of Scottish ale.

Agreed - The "wort a/b" concept from How To Brew, 4e covers partial boils nicely. And the extract chapters contain numerous subtle enhancements that haven't made it into many of the brewing discussions on the various forums.

 

[homebrewer_99]

I've always use Extra Light DME for pale or 2 row.

 

[damiongrimm]

All of this is some fantastic information, thank you all! I had not thought about splitting the addition of the DME I’ll be trying that out with this brew absolutely.

Here are my two recipes, the first being the original AG recipe, set up for a 12-gallon batch to be made in my 15.5gal keggle system, the second the extract conversion equivalent set up for a smaller 5.5gal batch. I’d love some feedback!

IPA-13.5gal pre boil volume, 12gal estimated final volume

30 lbs pale 2-row
1.5 lbs caramalt 10

2 oz galaxy @60 (33.3 IBU)
2 oz Citra @30(29.4 IBU)
1 oz Mosaic @20 (10.5IBU)
3 Whirlfloc @10
5 tsp Servomyces @10
1 oz Galaxy @5 (3.3 IBU)

1 oz Citra @whirlpool (6.87 IBU)
1 oz Mosaic@whirlpool (160-170°) (7.8 IBU)

3 pkg Wyeast 1450 (Imperial A38?)

Dry hop (3 days):
2.5oz Citra
2.5oz Mosaic
2.5oz Galaxy

Estimated OG: 1.080
Estimated FG: 1.020
Estimated ABV: 7.8%
Estimated IBU: 70.76

——————————————————
Extract Conversion:
——————————————————
9 lbs Briess Golden DME
.75 lbs caramalt 10
1 oz Galaxy @60
.5 oz Citra @20
.5 oz Mosaic @20
1 Whirlfloc @10
2 tsp Servo @10
.5 oz Galaxy @5

Whirlpool/flameout:
1 oz Citra
1 oz Mosaic

1 pkg Wyeast 1450

Dry hop (3 days):
1.25 oz Galaxy
1.25 oz Citra
1.25 oz Mosaic

OG: 1.070
FG: 1.018
ABV: 6.9%
75 IBU

[Edited for legibility -Mod]

 

[ESBrewer]

If using Muntons you should probably choose extra light spray malt (or a mixture of extra light and light) . The package doesn't specify the malts used in the malting process (Briess seems to provide this data) but the color of 'extra light' is closer to pure light American 2-row base malt than the color of 'light'. Extra light package says you should use this product in 'American style beers and light lagers' indicating that it is very lightly kilned such as American basic 2-row or pilsner malts. 'Light' package says that it adds body and richness and IS suitable for 'all type of beers' and I think it contains some more highly kilned malts, too.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

(Briess seems to provide this data)

For Briess, an overview and links to product information sheets can be found here: http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Extracts.htm

If one does web searches looking for PDFs containing spray malt, Muntons appears to have product information sheets. What I found didn't appear to be at their web site(s), so I won't post links here.

For those DME/LME products where the ingredient list isn't easily available, this link may be a good resource for the initial conversion and first brew attempt: http://barleypopmaker.info/links-an...-grain-recipe-equivalents-to-common-extracts/ .

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I’d love some feedback!

There's a "Tips and Tricks for Brewing Excellent Extract Beers" that is posted from time to time in the active homebrew forums. It's definitely worth a read. I've seen it posted here, but have a link to it over in the AHA forums: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=31159.msg405242#msg405242

 

[IslandLizard]

If one does web searches looking for PDFs containing spray malt, Muntons appears to have product information sheets. What I found didn't appear to be at their web site(s), so I won't post links here.

If those product infos are Munton's releases, and the websites are bonafide, not spam traps, or our competitors', it's should be OK to post those links.

When in doubt, pm them to me first.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

If those product infos are Munton's releases ...

I'm not "a fan" of deep linking to PDFs as the links often break quickly.

The summary information that Muntons provides here (http://www.muntonsmicrobrewing.com/product-range/) for their extract products matches well with the information in the barleypopmaker.info article I posted above.

It's generally stated that "extra light" or "light" DME/LME is a good replacement for two-row malt. "Extra light" is often pilsner malt - which may make a difference to some people.

 

[ESBrewer]

The Muntons table confirms my above thoughts of spraymalt color. Light is 8-12 EBC, higher than the color of the wort prepared from British pale ale malts, that are darker kilned than typical US 2-row. I don't know how much The drying process affects color, but light sounds a bit dark and heavy to replace a 1-2 Lovibond malt.