Anyone homebrewing still beers?

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JKenshi

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After making a suggestion to someone on the forum yesterday, I realized I hadn't thought about still beers since my trip to Great Britain 4 years ago.

It's virtually impossible to research as any search for "still beer" will return, "is my beer still fermenting" or, "is my beer still good".

So, anyone brewing stills? Have good suggestions for what recipes to work from. I remember enjoying some good still beers but I can't remember exactly what styles they were.
 
Strong, in this one, is the google-fu!


Try using google and search for "still beer" with the quotes. You'll find a lot.

And no, I'm not doing it. Still beer, that is. Googling? Yeah.
 
Not intentional. I currently have a Bock that never carb'd like I wanted. It still tastes ok. Not completely flat, but no foam forms and you really have to pay attention to notice a little fizz when you take a drink.
 
I am a member of the warm, flat beer drinking club! I LOVE me some warm,fresh, flat beer straight from the fermenter ...
IMG_20161020_193402439.jpg
 
I had a bottle that I must have forgotten to add carbonation drops to which I drank last night, still tasted good but the fizzy version is better. It was a dry Irish stout
 
In my mind "still" implies never carbed, and "flat" means it was once carbed.

Correct... Still is still by design, not just flat and not just "not yet" carbonated. What I'm looking for are the aspects of recipes that make them better suited for still beers. Someone should do a write up on this.
 
hello from the disunited kingdom!
really any uk style is fine. the key really is to have a pump handle servey thing with doohicker style airating spigots (technical term) it's not totally flat though ideally.
 
hello from the disunited kingdom!
really any uk style is fine. the key really is to have a pump handle servey thing with doohicker style airating spigots (technical term) it's not totally flat though ideally.

Oh crap... I didn't think of the mechanics of it... I'll have to figure out a way to simulate that from a bottle... maybe put an aerator tip on the end of the bottle when pouring? The stills that I had were all in the north country... Lake District and Yorkshire, so I was thinking brown ales would be about right, but I wasn't paying close attention at the time (4 years ago).
 
You can take a look at kellerbier. They aren't exactly "still", as they have natural carbonation from the fermentation in them. But they are not spunded or added any gas.
 
So, I’m also from the uk.

You should try searching for cask ale or real ale. I think that’s what your looking for. Also you can just serve from a regular corny tap set up at 1.2/.3 volumes of co2 (same as average cask pressure as far as I know) and at cellar temps of 10-14c (that’s 50-57f in fake temperatures).
That’s always worked for me when I’ve made cask style beers.
 
So, I’m also from the uk.

You should try searching for cask ale or real ale. I think that’s what your looking for. Also you can just serve from a regular corny tap set up at 1.2/.3 volumes of co2 (same as average cask pressure as far as I know) and at cellar temps of 10-14c (that’s 50-57f in fake temperatures).
That’s always worked for me when I’ve made cask style beers.

Ah yes! That is helpful. This is starting to narrow things down a bit. One of my challenges is I don't keg. I'm thinking of ways to emulate though.

So, as long as I have your attention, any advice on the homebrew aspects of Cask Ale?
 
That’s fine you can bottle condition too just do it to the lower carb levels I exclusively brewed British style beers until I started kegging . IMO cask ale styles are easy.
Make it sessionable. I think of uk sessionable at 3%-4.5%. I like Maris otter and golden promise for base malts, breadie malts really.
From my understanding if you can get caramel malts rather than crystal malt it will have some more of the flavours you want, raisins and toast etc. But I think I saw a comparison saying there wasn’t much in it.
Use a dry English strain, avoiding some of the known diacetyl bombs (though so manny bad examples have real diacetyl problems you could be forgiven for thinking it was intentional/to style) I like s-04/wlp007.
Ferment it warm ish to express some fruit character.
Go easy on the hopping. These are traditionally not bitter beers (even cask ipa isn’t bitter)
Bottle to the lower volume of co2 and then you’re away.
Just keep it super simple. It’ll be a doddle!
 
That’s fine you can bottle condition too just do it to the lower carb levels I exclusively brewed British style beers until I started kegging . IMO cask ale styles are easy.
Make it sessionable. I think of uk sessionable at 3%-4.5%. I like Maris otter and golden promise for base malts, breadie malts really.
From my understanding if you can get caramel malts rather than crystal malt it will have some more of the flavours you want, raisins and toast etc. But I think I saw a comparison saying there wasn’t much in it.
Use a dry English strain, avoiding some of the known diacetyl bombs (though so manny bad examples have real diacetyl problems you could be forgiven for thinking it was intentional/to style) I like s-04/wlp007.
Ferment it warm ish to express some fruit character.
Go easy on the hopping. These are traditionally not bitter beers (even cask ipa isn’t bitter)
Bottle to the lower volume of co2 and then you’re away.
Just keep it super simple. It’ll be a doddle!

Thank you so much! This is very helpful. I think I'm going to give it a try with a small one gallon batch. I have a very small (2L) oak cask left over from a whisky aging kit I can use and then bottle the rest. This also gives me an opportunity to try a few other grain combinations I've been thinking of.
 
hello from the disunited kingdom!
really any uk style is fine. the key really is to have a pump handle servey thing with doohicker style airating spigots (technical term) it's not totally flat though ideally.

I had an idea to emulate the beer engine, at least for a first time experiment... If I do a small batch and "cask" it in a glass or stainless steel growler, then when I'm ready to serve I just use an autosiphon to emulate the pump handle servey thing, and a bottling wand to emulate the doohicker spigot, that should at least give me some semblance of what I'm after yes?
 
I had an idea to emulate the beer engine, at least for a first time experiment... If I do a small batch and "cask" it in a glass or stainless steel growler, then when I'm ready to serve I just use an autosiphon to emulate the pump handle servey thing, and a bottling wand to emulate the doohicker spigot, that should at least give me some semblance of what I'm after yes?

It seems like it would be more effective to use some kind of sprinkler head on the end of the tubing. Maybe one of the sprinklers you can get with drip line irrigation systems? Those come with a barb that would fit into fairly small tubing. You’d want to keep pumping the autosiphon, rather than just letting it flow.
 
It seems like it would be more effective to use some kind of sprinkler head on the end of the tubing. Maybe one of the sprinklers you can get with drip line irrigation systems? Those come with a barb that would fit into fairly small tubing. You’d want to keep pumping the autosiphon, rather than just letting it flow.

I could use an aerator tip that you attach to tubing for transferring wort from kettle to fermentor, though that takes away the easy stop mechanism of the bottling wand. Maybe I'll try it both ways and see what comes out.

OR... I could poke a hole in the tubing near the autosiphon and cover it with my thumb, that way when I stop pumping I just lift my thumb and lose the suction in the siphon, which should stop the flow other than what's in the line.

I'm as a giddy as wee school girl right now. A Manchester school girl... not an East London school girl.

Not East London.
 
I hadn't thought about still beers since my trip to Great Britain 4 years ago.

Well I certainly hope you didn't experience still beer when you were in the UK because a British beer should never be "still". The whole point of cask-conditioned beer is that it should have "condition" (ie fizz) as a result of secondary fermentation in the cask. If it doesn't have condition, then either the brewery has screwed up or more likely the pub.

Sure - it will have maybe half the fizz of a typical keg beer, but that's a world away from no fizz at all. Unfortunately there's a lot of badly kept cask beer out there, particularly in London, so it's perhaps not surprising that tourists think it should be "still" - but that's just faulty beer.

It matters for two reasons - the existence of condition proves that the beer is fresh and not stale, so the other components should be in good order, but also the subtle carbonation helps to push aroma molecules up into your nose. British beer is all about balance, malt, yeast, hops, water and CO2 all have a contribution to make to the whole without any one element being dominant. So they are certainly bitter - but they're not 100IBU alpha bombs.

If you're looking for a bitter recipe, here's one off the top of my head that should get you in the right ballpark.

The only way to get even close to the effect of a sparkler from smallpack beer is the kind of nitrogen widget you get in cans of Guinness and Boddingtons. Don't even try at a homebrew level. In fact sparklers knock a lot of the condition out of the liquid, in order to create a creamy head - but that's a debate that rivals anything in the Middle East for intensity! Being a northerner I personally prefer beer with a sparkler - as long as the beer is designed to be served that way, and the pub is clued up enough to use the right size sparkler for the style and condition of the beer - there's a bit of an art to it.

At a homebrew level, the usual advice of 1.3-1.5 vol may be correct for keg, but it isn't quite right for bottles, I guess because of the headspace. I'd aim for 1.8vol or so in bottle. And do serve at the right temperature - straight out of the fridge will kill the flavour. 55F is ideal, but it's OK to serve at say 50F and let it warm up as you drink the pint and it comes up through the right temperature zone if you're in a warm room/climate.

I'm as a giddy as wee school girl right now. A Manchester school girl...

I like a sick joke as much as the next man, but it's not your joke to make in public when there could be people reading (like me) who know schoolgirls whose classmates had legs amputated a year ago. Things are just a bit sensitive at the moment, with the anniversary on Tuesday of that and 22 murders, round here it's a bigger thing than either a certain wedding or even the Cup Final.
 
Well I certainly hope you didn't experience still beer when you were in the UK because a British beer should never be "still". The whole point of cask-conditioned beer is that it should have "condition" (ie fizz) as a result of secondary fermentation in the cask. If it doesn't have condition, then either the brewery has screwed up or more likely the pub.

First, thank you very much for the clarification and advice. I was using the term "still" because I had forgotten they were called "Cask Ales" and I was using the term I was familiar with in association with ciders.

Second, I didn't mean that to be an offensive joke at all and I apologize for my insensitivity. I wasn't even thinking about what had happened. I often use the phrase "giddy as a schoolgirl", and when I think of British school girls I think of the caricatures present on television, such as Lauren, played by Catherine Tate... that's all I meant... did not mean it to be a sick joke.
 
The thread makes far more sense now. Huge difference between uncarbed beer and hand pump / cask. They are carbonated, not still.
 
Well I certainly hope you didn't experience still beer when you were in the UK because a British beer should never be "still". The whole point of cask-conditioned beer is that it should have "condition" (ie fizz) as a result of secondary fermentation in the cask. If it doesn't have condition, then either the brewery has screwed up or more likely the pub.

Sure - it will have maybe half the fizz of a typical keg beer, but that's a world away from no fizz at all. Unfortunately there's a lot of badly kept cask beer out there, particularly in London, so it's perhaps not surprising that tourists think it should be "still" - but that's just faulty beer.

It matters for two reasons - the existence of condition proves that the beer is fresh and not stale, so the other components should be in good order, but also the subtle carbonation helps to push aroma molecules up into your nose. British beer is all about balance, malt, yeast, hops, water and CO2 all have a contribution to make to the whole without any one element being dominant. So they are certainly bitter - but they're not 100IBU alpha bombs.

If you're looking for a bitter recipe, here's one off the top of my head that should get you in the right ballpark.

The only way to get even close to the effect of a sparkler from smallpack beer is the kind of nitrogen widget you get in cans of Guinness and Boddingtons. Don't even try at a homebrew level. In fact sparklers knock a lot of the condition out of the liquid, in order to create a creamy head - but that's a debate that rivals anything in the Middle East for intensity! Being a northerner I personally prefer beer with a sparkler - as long as the beer is designed to be served that way, and the pub is clued up enough to use the right size sparkler for the style and condition of the beer - there's a bit of an art to it.

At a homebrew level, the usual advice of 1.3-1.5 vol may be correct for keg, but it isn't quite right for bottles, I guess because of the headspace. I'd aim for 1.8vol or so in bottle. And do serve at the right temperature - straight out of the fridge will kill the flavour. 55F is ideal, but it's OK to serve at say 50F and let it warm up as you drink the pint and it comes up through the right temperature zone if you're in a warm room/climate.



I like a sick joke as much as the next man, but it's not your joke to make in public when there could be people reading (like me) who know schoolgirls whose classmates had legs amputated a year ago. Things are just a bit sensitive at the moment, with the anniversary on Tuesday of that and 22 murders, round here it's a bigger thing than either a certain wedding or even the Cup Final.
I'm not entirely sure the comment was a reference to the act of a madman that happened in Manchester?! if it was it would be a hell of a stretch, and pretty poor taste, but if it wasn't and was just a comment from someone excited about our much maligned sure if beer that's a bit of an over the top response. I get that the way things are going in the world is making everyone a bit jumpy mind you.
anyway all the rest of this is seconded as the case.
wouldn't bother faffing about with siphons.

PS. I specifically come here to get away from the screaming online millions and relax with harmless beer talk sorry if I caused any offence to anyone.
 
I could use an aerator tip that you attach to tubing for transferring wort from kettle to fermentor, though that takes away the easy stop mechanism of the bottling wand. Maybe I'll try it both ways and see what comes out.

OR... I could poke a hole in the tubing near the autosiphon and cover it with my thumb, that way when I stop pumping I just lift my thumb and lose the suction in the siphon, which should stop the flow other than what's in the line.

I'm as a giddy as wee school girl right now. A Manchester school girl... not an East London school girl.

Not East London.
I wouldn't faff about with siphons etc.
i would guess the closest way to emulate a traditional pour would be to carb as usual but to something like 1.8 maybe, pour a small amount into a cocktail Shaker and shake the bejeezus out of it pour into glass and top up with the remaining beer.
I've not tried this or heard of it working so you're in New territory. report back on success or comical failure please...
 
Wasn’t cask beer originally served from a cask via gravity? Why a sparkler? I get that it builds some head on the beer, but wouldn’t it be more authentic to let gravity take it from the cask to your glass without gadgets in the way? Maybe let it fall a foot or two to build the head?
 
Wasn’t cask beer originally served from a cask via gravity? Why a sparkler? I get that it builds some head on the beer, but wouldn’t it be more authentic to let gravity take it from the cask to your glass without gadgets in the way? Maybe let it fall a foot or two to build the head?

So I also think there is a bit of a north south divide with sparklers. Being a southern boy I don’t think you need them, but, those northerners...
Personally I’d rather that little fizz in my beer
 
so I just tried my earlier suggestion of taking a bit of low fizz beer in a cocktail Shaker and blasting it up and adding to rest of beer and it works pretty good!
I'd definitely give it a go if you want that uk cask ale effect.
if no cocktail Shaker I'm sure the same effect could be achieved with a plastic cup and glass provided the one fits into the other.
 
First, thank you very much for the clarification and advice. I was using the term "still" because I had forgotten they were called "Cask Ales" and I was using the term I was familiar with in association with ciders.

Second, I didn't mean that to be an offensive joke at all and I apologize for my insensitivity. I wasn't even thinking about what had happened. I often use the phrase "giddy as a schoolgirl", and when I think of British school girls I think of the caricatures present on television, such as Lauren, played by Catherine Tate... that's all I meant... did not mean it to be a sick joke.
Catherine Tate's character is of a school girl from SW London, not East London... she got the idea after hearing some girls on the 33 from Richmond to Mortlake. Funnily enough, I used to look after her daughter (I was a playworker). I've got many crap celebrity claims-to-fame like that one...
 
So I’ve been thinking of this, and remembered an experimental brewing podcast where Denny Conn spoke about how Guinness used to come with a syringe in the 6 packs to knock out some of the carbonation “from the barrel in the bottle”

http://publin.ie/2015/giving-guinness-a-head-with-a-syringe-how-it-used-to-be-done/

It might be worth a try with a similar effect to thee shaker glass but maybe a little easier?
 
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