Any powder sanitizers?

[safedude]

Does anyone know of any powder sanitizers for brewing? Preferably a no rinse. The only 2 I found are sani-pure, which I can't find any info in regards to brewing... And one-step which is actually a cleanser not a sanitizer.

 

[CU_tony]

What's wrong with liquid sanitizer like starsan?
Just wondering why you want a powder really.

 

[daggers_nz]

http://www.brewshop.co.nz/copper-tun-no-rinse-steriliser.html

it's percarbonate as opposed to caustic or iodine cleaners

 

[brewcat]

One step and Easy Clean both seem to work fine. Technically not sanitizers but they seem to do the job.

 

[safedude]

One step and Easy Clean both seem to work fine. Technically not sanitizers but they seem to do the job.

One-Step? Where do you get so many oral contraceptives?

 

[pricelessbrewing]

None of those are sanitizers, they're cleaners. You need both.


Also jesus christ how can you market a sodium percarbonate powder as a sterilizer? There's no way that's legal, probably why all the spellings are steriliser and not sterilizer.

 

[mattd2]

Mix sodium percarbonate and water and what do you get - a dilute hydrogen peroxide solution. What can you do with hydrogen peroxide solutions - sterilise stuff.
But it is definitely not a great option.
Can't tell if you are joking but it is probably from a supplier outside of the US so therefore the have spelt it correctly

 

[FatDragon]

Mix sodium percarbonate and water and what do you get - a dilute hydrogen peroxide solution. What can you do with hydrogen peroxide solutions - sterilise stuff.
But it is definitely not a great option.
Can't tell if you are joking but it is probably from a supplier outside of the US so therefore the have spelt it correctly

The problem with using percarb as a sanitizer (definitely won't sterilize, however you spell it) is that you get a bunch of sodium bicarb with the peroxide, which is a great detergent but means you'll definitely want to rinse a few times, which defeats the purpose of a sanitizer because you could introduce new microbes in the rinse.

I've seen chemical supply places here in China that sell powdered hydrogen peroxide. If it mixes with water to make an H2O2 solution without any other stuff in it, that could be a good option for a powdered sanitizer, but I have a feeling it's not that simple.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

It does not sterilize no matter what you do with it.

 

[daggers_nz]

why haven't I had a single infection in 5 years of brewing then?

Also jesus christ how can you market a sodium percarbonate powder as a sterilizer? There's no way that's legal, probably why all the spellings are steriliser and not sterilizer.

it's spelled correctly for the country it is sold in

 

[kh54s10]

why haven't I had a single infection in 5 years of brewing then?



it's spelled correctly for the country it is sold in

Lucky!?!

Isn't that the same think as Oxiclean? No one suggests Oxiclean to be used as a sanitizer!

IMO, I don't believe any of those percarbonate based cleaners are trustworthy at sanitizing even though they are sold as such.

Remember they use to sell turpentine as a stomach soother and other such potions.

 

[daggers_nz]

call it whatever you want, the fact that some sort of process happens upon the addition of water that creates a substance that has stopped me (and maybe most of an entire country of homebrewers) getting infections leads me to believe it does some sort of sanitising/sterilising function

Why are people having such a problem with this?

 

[jmill]

How about Brewvint Cleanitizer? AHS advertises it as both....not sure if it actually is or not.

 

[kh54s10]

call it whatever you want, the fact that some sort of process happens upon the addition of water that creates a substance that has stopped me (and maybe most of an entire country of homebrewers) getting infections leads me to believe it does some sort of sanitising/sterilising function

Why are people having such a problem with this?

At one time people just mixed grains in water stirred it with their special stick and waited until it fermented..

Just did a quick internet search and read several sites only one said that it has some sanitizing effect. The others said use it for cleaning only. I didn't count the ones that were selling it.

Why use a one step that may sanitize when there are sanitizers that do sanitize?

 

[daggers_nz]

because it's cheap and I've never had a problem with it. I'm also a chemist and thus don't like change

to wit, my colleague and 10+ year homebrewer has not had an infection either

 

[kh54s10]

because it's cheap and I've never had a problem with it.

to wit, my colleague and 10+ year homebrewer has not either

My $13 bottle of Starsan has lasted 5 years and I still have enough for 15 or so gallons of solution. I doubt you beat that, at least by much.

 

[daggers_nz]

no, I didn't realise it lasted that long to be fair

 

[logan3825]

It lasts a very long time. Especially if you mix it with distilled water and use it in a spray bottle. All yu really need to do is get the surface wet.

 

[CamG]

My $13 bottle of Starsan has lasted 5 years and I still have enough for 15 or so gallons of solution. I doubt you beat that, at least by much.

Wow, I am doing something wrong. I go through a small bottle every 4 - 6 months. Same with PBW.

Thanks,
Cam

 

[Northbank]

Pretty sure 1oz of Star San is enough to mix up 5 GALLONS of sanitizing solution. A 12oz bottle goes a long way ... especially once you learn that 1 gallon can be used time and time and time and time again ...

 

[kh54s10]

Pretty sure 1oz of Star San is enough to mix up 5 GALLONS of sanitizing solution. A 12oz bottle goes a long way ... especially once you learn that 1 gallon can be used time and time and time and time again ...

This ^^ I brew a little over once a month, the bottle is 16 ounces. One ounce makes 5 gallons. I pour back what is used when I can. The bottle will make 80 gallons. I use a spray bottle also. When my 5 gallon water jug starts getting a little low I make a couple gallons more in it.

I see that my $13 bottle is now closer to $18....

 

[jddevinn]

because it's cheap and I've never had a problem with it. I'm also a chemist and thus don't like change

to wit, my colleague and 10+ year homebrewer has not had an infection either

Dissolved in water, it [sodium percarbonate] yields a mixture of hydrogen peroxide (which eventually decomposes to water and oxygen) and sodium carbonate ("soda ash") Applications of hydrogen peroxide and its derivatives. Royal Society of Chemistry. ISBN 0-85404-536-8.

sodium percarbonate is the primary ingredient in the "oxy" cleaners. Seems like a good way to 1) not actually sanitize 2)screw with your water chemistry

 

[daggers_nz]

2)screw with your water chemistry

I doubt when 2.5g is used, and I always rinse once, I don't think that in a 23L batch the effect is significant

now that I realise how long Star San lasts, I'll be using it when I'm done with my current bottle of percarbonate. Is this really the first time that North Americans have heard of using it though?

 

[pricelessbrewing]

This particular brand, probably. We're pretty familiar with percarbonate, as it's an active ingredient in oxyclean and PBW (probably the two most popular cleaners for brewers).

 

[mattd2]

I doubt when 2.5g is used, and I always rinse once, I don't think that in a 23L batch the effect is significant

now that I realise how long Star San lasts, I'll be using it when I'm done with my current bottle of percarbonate. Is this really the first time that North Americans have heard of using it though?

Yep Mangrove Jack's is a NZ company (but the do seem to distribute worldwide if you look at their distributer list) so not surprising that those on here haven't heard of it.
The common product of similar nature in the US would be One-Step (as mentioned by brew cat in the post below your first).

 

[daggers_nz]

I don't doubt that nobody has heard of the brand, but with such reactions to the idea of using percarbonate as a steriliser, it seemed that the idea was completely foreign and preposterous for anyone outside of our land

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Sterilization is a specific scientific term, and is not applicable to sodium percarbonate. Sterilization requires 100% death of all living organism. While hydrogen peroxide is a valid method sterilization, it requires significantly higher concentration than is occurring here.

At it's given concentration, it's a great cleaner and a mild sanitizer and does not sterilize. There's no such thing as good or bad sterilization, it's either sterilized or it's not and this is not.

 

[Pkrd]

Here's the stuff.

 

[logan3825]

I doubt when 2.5g is used, and I always rinse once, I don't think that in a 23L batch the effect is significant

now that I realise how long Star San lasts, I'll be using it when I'm done with my current bottle of percarbonate. Is this really the first time that North Americans have heard of using it though?

You rinse? Rinsing introduces bacteria back into your sanitized equipment. That is why you want to use a no rinse sanitizer.

 

[Tx6686]

Interesting conversation! Does anybody know what brands they typically use in breweries? Id imagine that gets pricey

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Breweries (at least in the US) use caustic cleaners and acidic (typically phosphoric) or heat sanitation.

 

[Tx6686]

Breweries (at least in the US) use caustic cleaners and acidic (typically phosphoric) or heat sanitation.

Interesting, Thanks!

 

[Wayne1]

Interesting conversation! Does anybody know what brands they typically use in breweries? Id imagine that gets pricey

It all depends on the brewery, the size of the brewery and if they use automated CIP.

For sanitizers, small (1000 bbl a year and under) will use an acid anionic such as SaniClean (non foaming version of Star San), Chlorine Dioxide, iodophor or Peracetic Acid.

For alkaline cleaning, usually a form of built caustic, usually chlorinated, would be used in the kettle. That can also be used in fermenter. PBW is used in the smaller operations. For serving tanks and kegs, most have switched to an acid detergent to clean at lower temperatures and under CO2.

For an acid cleaner, it is usually some form of Phosphoric and Nitric acid blend.